$2000 Challenge Rules

In reply to Tom Suddard :

In my 2002 GRM $2000 Challenge Escort ZX2 I have relocated the battery to the inside, by the right rear tire well.

SCCA rules say use the original hold down stuff if possible.  I have done that.  I also have a marine battery box covering the actual battery.

This setup passes tech for Tidewater Sports Car Club autocross and time trials.

In reading the challenge rules, it looks like I may need some sort of vent pipe from the box to the outside.  This seems like overkill to me.  The car will be doing well to break into the 15s in the drag race.

Do I need this pipe??

I do also have a battery cut off switch mounted on the floor behind the driver.  Im planning on useing white shoe polish to write on the outside of the car "battery shutoff behind driver seat" if I need to.

Let me know!

Jim

Jim, you’ll need a vent to the outside or a firewall between the drivers compartment and the battery. 

The cutoff switch “Must remain within driver's and first responder's reach and be clearly labeled on the exterior of the vehicle.” 

Another question for Tom:

Regarding free OE replacement brake parts, when swapping suspension from another car, the OE brakes from the new suspension qualify for free replacement.  That’s clear from the rules.

in my case, I’m putting a C5 rear suspension in monZora, but I’m putting C5 front brakes on that rear.  If I bought new OE replacement grade parts, would I have to charge my budget (choose one):

• full price paid, because C5 rear didn’t come with C5 front brakes on it?
• the cost delta between C5 front and C5 rear?
• zero, because everyone knows OE replacement grade brakes are lame anyway?

for the record, I bought used C5 front brakes from the same guy I got the rear suspension from, as he’s parting a complete but crashed car, and have the price of those used brakes in my budget already.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Tom,

Thanks for the fast reply, Ill make those changes.

I am 62, a disabled VET, and an analog man.  I do not have a build thread and would not know how to link it to GRM if I did.  So, Im very happy to be able to get my questions answered here.  My team, "Lost Cause Racing" has the motto "Putting the Fun in Dysfunctional".  I bought the ZX2 for $500 from my son after he blew the transmission.  I have been doing low cost tweaks ever since and running it in autocross and time trials with Tidewater Sports Car Club.

I was not planning on running the GRM $2000 Challenge until one day I thought, "I bet I have less than $2000 in this piece of crap"..........and I do, so see you in October.

Jim

Tom Suddard said:

Jim, you’ll need a vent to the outside or a firewall between the drivers compartment and the battery. 

The cutoff switch “Must remain within driver's and first responder's reach and be clearly labeled on the exterior of the vehicle.” 

Tom, which rules are we following?  NHRA rules say nothing about being within reach of the driver, and require that they be at the “rearmost part of the vehicle” (which I interpret would NOT generally be in reach of the driver)  

I assumed since it’s an NHRA track that we would be following the NHRA safety rule.

Please clarify.

8:4 MASTER CUTOFF
Mandatory when battery is relocated, or as outlined in Class
Requirements. An electrical power cutoff switch (one only) must be
installed on the rearmost part of each vehicle and be easily
accessible from outside the car body. This cutoff switch must be
connected to the positive side of the electrical system and must
stop all electrical functions including magneto ignition. The off
position must be clearly indicated with the word “OFF.” If switch is
“push/pull” type, “push” must be the action for shutting off the
electrical system, “pull” to turn it on. Any rods or cables used to
activate the switch must be minimum 1/8-inch diameter. Plastic or
keyed switches prohibited. Switches and/or controls must be
located behind rear wheels on rear-engine dragsters.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

Damn, that’s a nice loophole you found. By the letter of the rules, they’re free. 

Tom Suddard said:

In reply to AngryCorvair :

Damn, that’s a nice loophole you found. By the letter of the rules, they’re free. 

Really?   Because I was expecting the answer to be "full price".   However, after reading your official response, I re-read the rule and it defines "application" as "year, make, model, and trim" without reference to "axle".   I don't know how i missed that.  Honestly, I kinda feel bad about this, because I'm likely the only person who can benefit from the lack of "axle" as part of the definition.  Thanks!

What if you have owned the car for over 20 years,upgraded the suspension and then lost interest about 18 years ago. The car has been sitting ever since. It has upgraded Hotchkis suspension and an LT1 6 speed transmission. How do you factor that in as far as the budget? I'm planning to have this car ready for next year. I'm new to this Challenge. I have read the rules but didn't see anything about if you already owned the car and it was modified before.  I'm guessing FMV for both the car and the upgrades?   

In reply to Gtholen :

I thnk current FMV would be most favorable for you, and I don't think you'd get much argument about it.  Maybe post some pictures and some current FMV's from craigslist, ebay, etc?  that's probably a good start for defining 2020 value.

In reply to SVreX :

The Challenge rules state that “Except where otherwise stated, cars must meet the NHRA’s general safety regulations.”

And they say “

We realize that the NHRA rulebook has a few issues when it comes to this event. The following rules may be ignored if your car runs slower than 11.49 E.T.:

• Windows must be rolled up during drag runs (if you don't have windows, you'll be required to wear a full-face helmet).

• Welded differentials prohibited.

• Mandatory C-clip eliminators. 

• Partially excepted: Battery shutoff switches. Alternative construction and placement acceptable. Must remain within driver's and first responder's reach and be clearly labeled on the exterior of the vehicle.

Q: Do I need a master battery kill switch if I relocate the battery?

A: Yes, battery kill switches allow alternative construction and placement, but must remain within driver and first responder’s reach and be clearly labeled on the exterior of the vehicle.

I put 2 kill switches in series on my car. One by the shifter ("within driver's reach") and the other on the trunk ("within first responder's reach" and NHRA's "rearmost of vehicle"). Clearly labeled with paint pen. 

As for the venting, I strapped a bucket over the battery and drilled a hole in the floor where the cables run out. Vents through the floor to outside the car. 

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Thank you. 

I just seriously started considering entering this event... I have a car that might be a good fit... My question is:

Working on the assumption that all rules of the law are followed (trailering it rather than driving to the event) - does the entered car have to be registered and insured? 

In reply to Sergeant82d :

Nope. Doesn't even have to have a vin or title!

In reply to Sergeant82d :

My Q45 has a salvage title somewhere around here. No where near street legal and my insurance company would laugh in my face if I tried to insure it. 

How does GRM feel about "karted" vehicles?  The rules certainly indicate that a finsihed looking car is preferred, but is a karted vehicle, with body panels removed, allowed?

Lof8 said:

How does GRM feel about "karted" vehicles?  The rules certainly indicate that a finsihed looking car is preferred, but is a karted vehicle, with body panels removed, allowed?

 

Pretty sure there have been a few of them. It's based off a production chassis, so rules-wise, you're good. Main downside is looks. It's hard to make a kart'd car look good without a LOT of work. So likely no chance at making the cover, and concourse points will likely suffer. (Just do the don't judge me for concours.)

In my opinion, if you "kartify" a car, make sure you're having fun, and that it won't ruin the post challenge life of the car due to street legality, or streetability.

maschinenbau said:

I put 2 kill switches in series on my car. One by the shifter ("within driver's reach") and the other on the trunk ("within first responder's reach" and NHRA's "rearmost of vehicle"). Clearly labeled with paint pen. 

As for the venting, I strapped a bucket over the battery and drilled a hole in the floor where the cables run out. Vents through the floor to outside the car. 

Normally we try very, very hard to not change any rules once they're announced for the event, but in this rare case I've clarified the battery rule. Why? The way it was written, it accidentally created the requirement that slower cars have a battery switch accessible by the driver, while faster cars needed it on the rear of the vehicle. 

The old rule's text was this:

Q: It seems like a few of the NHRA rules will make my fairly average car illegal. What gives?

A: We realize that the NHRA rulebook has a few issues when it comes to this event. The following rules may be ignored if your car runs slower than 11.49 E.T.:

• Windows must be rolled up during drag runs (if you don't have windows, you'll be required to wear a full-face helmet).

• Welded differentials prohibited.

• Mandatory C-clip eliminators. 

• Partially excepted: Battery shutoff switches. Alternative construction and placement acceptable. Must remain within driver's and first responder's reach and be clearly labeled on the exterior of the vehicle.

Q: Do I need a master battery kill switch if I relocate the battery?

A: Yes, battery kill switches allow alternative construction and placement, but must remain within driver and first responder’s reach and be clearly labeled on the exterior of the vehicle.

I've changed the text to the following:

Q: It seems like a few of the NHRA rules will make my fairly average car illegal. What gives?

A: We realize that the NHRA rulebook has a few issues when it comes to this event. The following rules may be ignored if your car runs slower than 11.49 E.T.:

• Windows must be rolled up during drag runs (if you don't have windows, you'll be required to wear a full-face helmet).

• Welded differentials prohibited.

• Mandatory C-clip eliminators. 

• Partially excepted: Battery shutoff switches. Alternative construction and placement acceptable. Must remain within first responder's reach and be clearly labeled on the exterior of the vehicle. Changed 9/19/19 to remove requirement that battery shutoff switch remain within driver’s reach.

Q: Do I need a master battery kill switch if I relocate the battery?

A: Yes.

An email will be going out to registered competitors shortly noting the change. Sorry about that, everybody, but this should simplify everything for everybody.

I have a question re: main challenge vehicle purchase and associated parts with that purchase. I tried searching, but didn't see an answer on the challenge website, and trying to search the forum wasn't working well (search terms too common).

My challenge truck was advertised at $500 w/ a blown motor and fiberglass cover as extra. For challenge purposes, I knew I would likely not want to run with the cover, but did want to buy it for my regular street truck use. I had looked up some prices for covers, and it seemed ~150 was fair, so I asked the seller to write up the bill of sale with two line items, the truck for $350, and cover for $150, and he was fine with that. This was just some decent guy from the local craigslist, not someone I knew. 

The cover has been removed and is not part of the truck in challenge configuration. The question is that for challenge budget purposes, can I just leave out the bed cover as part of an itemized parts purchase not used (how I had been planning/budgeting), or do I need to count it towards recoup? We have plenty of recoup headroom, but this is a gastropod, so having to count it towards recoup would boot us from gastro-eligibility if we need that $150 in the budget for other things.  :-/  I hate to leave $150 on the table, but I think for us, gastro elgibility comes first, since the rest of our efforts have been towards that class.

ad:

In reply to bluej :

i'm pretty sure there is precedent that you are starting with a $350 truck and you have not used any recoup by removing the bed cover.

AngryCorvair said:

In reply to bluej :

i'm pretty sure there is precedent that you are starting with a $350 truck and you have not used any recoup by removing the bed cover.

awesome. I thought so, but was having trouble finding it. guess I should would wait for an official response, too.

thanks!

bluej said:

AngryCorvair said:

In reply to bluej :

i'm pretty sure there is precedent that you are starting with a $350 truck and you have not used any recoup by removing the bed cover.

awesome. I thought so, but was having trouble finding it. guess I should would wait for an official response, too.

thanks!

Not on the car, not in the budget. You're good.

Looking over what I need to be legal / safe for the Challenge, in the FAQ's:

   Q: Are window nets exempt from my budget as a safety equipment item?

A: No

Relevant facts:

   1) The car has a roll cage with mount points for a window net.

   2) It also has no drivers side window because the roll cage door bars extend into the door

   3) Drag times are definitely on the slow side, -- FWD, 140ish hp, etc.

   4) I'm sure I need a full face helmet for the drag race due to no window.

Question:

   Do I need a window net?

Bent-Valve said:

Looking over what I need to be legal / safe for the Challenge, in the FAQ's:

   Q: Are window nets exempt from my budget as a safety equipment item?

A: No

Relevant facts:

   1) The car has a roll cage with mount points for a window net.

   2) It also has no drivers side window because the roll cage door bars extend into the door

   3) Drag times are definitely on the slow side, -- FWD, 140ish hp, etc.

   4) I'm sure I need a full face helmet for the drag race due to no window.

Question:

   Do I need a window net?

I'd like to piggy-back on this one.  My MR2 Spyder has no top and I'm thinking of gutting the doors and removing the side windows.  It has no roll bar or cage.  Am I legal without a side window or net?

In reply to Bent-Valve :

No