Emergency Repair - addressing a potential budget protest

I want to get in front of a potential emergency repair claim that could be a budget protest now, rather then having this become an issue in Florida.  So I am asking current and/or former Challenge participants to weigh in.

Issue - we had leaking head gaskets.  When attempting to repair 2 head bolt holes stripped.  Rather then replacing the engine we drilled and tapped the block and installed 1/2" head studs.  The used head gaskets were drilled out for the larger studs.  The cost of the replacement studs are not being added to the budget.

Rationale point #1 - the block can not be repaired without increasing the head bolt size..  The studs were not added to improve the engines performance capability.  We make over 1000 HP with 2 different LS engine and stock dimension head bolts.  We have another LS that makes 800 HP with stock reused head bolts.  The engine in question make less HP then the all of these and is only making about 680-ish on the current tune.  It won't make much more because the installed turbo is too small.

Rationale point #2 - the engine in the car was not procured at a lower cost because it was compromized.  We have (5) LS-4 engines.  (2) were free, (2) were $50 each and (1) was $100.  We used one of the free or $50 engines and did not know whether it was a free or $50 engine.  We do know it was not the $100 engine. That said, we showed the cost of a purchase engine and did not claim it was one of the free engines.  The engine was not included in the car to take advantage of a lower price.  

Rationale point #3 - the repair was performed on the existing engine rather then replacing with an identical engine to save time.  The stud installation required 6 hours of work.  Doing an R&R of the engine in this chassis takes 40-45 hours.  The repair and associated stud installation is done in the chassis.

Does anyone who is attending the Challenge in 2021 or anyone who is a former participant have reservation about our claim that this was an emergency repair? 

Do any current or former participants feel we have created an unfair advantage with these studs being identified as a budget exempt item?

1) I think this is within the rules as you are keeping the same displacement.

2) I won't protest if you hand me a beer at the hotel.

Stampie said:

1) I think this is within the rules as you are keeping the same displacement.

2) I won't protest if you hand me a beer at the hotel.

1) - We are installing bigger fastener into a short block that is not leaving the chassis.  

2) - I will happily give you a beer because I like you.  I will not bribe anyone to keep them from protesting.  Can't go there... would not feel right.

So, you swapped 2 "in budget" 7/16th studs for 2 1/2in studs? Any time or machine work you did wouldn't impact the budget as you know.

Where did the 1/2inch studs come from? Also used? If so, I have no problem swapping used stud for used stud.

If the 1/2 inch studs are brand new, then that's maybe different, as I would expect even same size brand new stock studs to be budgeted.

I will say this does feel a bit like splitting hairs, but I appreciate the ask because it shows integrity. 

You could probably fmv the 7/16th studs and the 1/2 studs and show they are identical (or maybe even the smaller 7/16th are worth more because LS, I don't know), and then you don't have to worry about what any of us think!

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

An LS has M11 head bolts.  The repair is 1/2" studs with nuts.

When replacing the fasteners you replace all the fasteners at the same time, not just the ones that are damaged.  If you only replaced one at a time the clamping force would be uneven and the head would likely warp and/or the gasket(s) would fail.  That said all (10) major fasteners per side are replaced to make the repair.  This improvement is being done as a repair not as a performance improvement.

The emergency repair rule does not require FMV of used parts.  It is a rule that allows a competitor to install parts to get a car that was built in compliance of the budget rule to attend if something fails before and/or at the event.  Our car was built in compliance to the budget rule.  The car was built in the spirit of the event. It had a failure before the event.  We had to repair it.  The parts to repair it did cost money that was not originally budgeted.  The emergency repair rule allows for repair parts to be exempt.

We are asking now in order to disclose what happened and to hopefully avoid a needless protest review at the event.  In the event of a protest, 9 competitors are asked to review the budget and/or budget item in question.  They rule on whether it is acceptable or if you are placed into exhibition and eliminated from the competition.

I do not want to spend over $1700 to pull a trailer and put 2000 miles on the truck and trailer, rent hotel rooms and eat road food if my competitors are going to deam the formentioned repairs a non emergency repair and exclude us from the event.  I would rather drop out of the competition, save the money and have my entry fees refunded.  More importantly, we would not waste 5 days and have family members waste very limited vacation time.  Additionally, our competitors would not have to waste an hour reviewing and debating the merits of this budget  question if a protest is filed.  The event prep takes an extended amount of time and the event is 2 short days.  With all due respect, I am sure very few want to waste their time going through a budget protest and would prefer to spend all available time  enjoying the event.

Your answer appears to be a thumbs down.  Are you planning to attend the 2021 event?  Have you attended or participated in a past challenge? 

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

.......and then you don't have to worry about what any of us think!

One of the reason the bond between the competitors is so strong is there is a real concern about what the competitors think of each other.  The effort and focus on doing this legitimately is what makes the event so fun for so many.  There is a lot of enjoyment in showing how you accomplished something great with so little.

There has been some cheating.  It is clear that those who don't comply with the rule seam to not enjoy the event, loose face with the core participants and/or have bad luck.  While I don't speak for all, I can say it is very important to me what other think.  The event has been the catalyst for some very strong friendships.

In reply to wheels777 :

I agree with Stampie's first comment. 

Im perfectly fine with the repair to 1/2 inch studs. Its meeting the intent of the rules, and being admitted to and reviewed thirty days in advance just shows your integrity. 

Andrew, you have more integrity in your little pinkie than most of us have in a lifetime. 
 

I really see no issue with the repair to the 1/2" studs. It totally meets the intent of the event. 

Full full disclosure... The most honest man in the history of motorsports did send me a text this morning and ask me to take a peak at this. "Share your feelings as a competitor agree or disagree" 

This is a repair full stop, one of the many things I love about the challenge is how infrequently "lawyerball" ends up being played. Much like I said in the harness bar thread the miniscule potential performance increase is outshone by in this case having one of the better competitors for the event showing up and running. 

Beat me by a point I'm not complaining about this. 

Yes, I've been to past challenges before - you'll remember me when you see me! My first year was 2015 and by some dumb luck I gridded right next to you (we had the paint-less bmw v12). Last year was the best I've ever done, 4th.

Planning to be there this year as well, and I'm very familiar with the time and money cost of getting there, as I come down from Chicago.

Last night after posting I thought to myself "I wonder how they adjust the torque spec to even out the clamping force when using mixed hardware for head fasteners" but I assumed there was just some magic for that. Haha.

So you did all the head fasteners with brand new hardware, did you do both banks? 

I'm sorry to be a stickler here and as I've alluded to I'm not questioning your integrity (nor your reasoning, which I think is solid). But replacing all the head bolts with larger head studs on a big boost engine certainly does seem like a performance mod to almost any onlooker. I just don't want to set any goofy precedents, which is why I was hoping to get you past the issue without using the emergency repair rule (and using an fmv trade instead).

Another idea - is there something from gm like a service manual or something that describes this fix? 

Like if this is GMs factory prescribed way of fixing stripped head fasteners then I think that makes the "repair" argument easier, but more importantly it makes it easy for an onlooker to understand.

Here's what the 2021 rules say about this situation, for reference:

Emergency Repairs/Wear and Tear: 

Maintenance is a reality of vehicle ownership, especially when that vehicle is used for competition. We understand that many $2000 Challenge cars can be unreliable, as a winning entry only needs to run for one autocross run and one drag race. With this in mind, competitors may replace parts that break during other competitions, daily driving, trips to or from the $2000 Challenge and during the $2000 Challenge, with identical or as-close-to-identical-as-possible parts without adding to or subtracting from their budgets. Engines replaced under this rule must have the same displacement as the originally budgeted part. Any parts replaced under this exemption must be listed on the budget sheet as exempt, with an explanation of why this failure was not expected and budgeted for in advance. Parts may not be replaced at no budget impact under this rule if they were broken or heavily degraded when the car was purchased, or if the competitor knew failure was likely due to modifications. In the case of a protest that deals with a part or parts replaced under this rule, a group of nine event attendees will be selected by GRM staff, and they will vote to determine whether the part replaced without budget impact was fairly exempted. 

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I do remember you. 

I hope everyone understands why I ask competitors to comment as they have a full grasp of the spirit of the event.

Both banks must be done.

The repair is not because of over boosting.  We run way more boost on other engines.  This one just happened to be the one of four in the stack that we picked and it is hurt (and it is not because of boost).

There is no FMV swap option, this is an emergency repair in my interpretation of the rules  I am seeking others opinions in order to gage my action and intention.

Disclosure:  I am not going this year.  I do believe the repair is spirit of the event.  You don't need studs to boost an ls-anything to 680hp so there is  no performance gain, the head gaskets were reused so there is no freshening of anything, and you can't just start throwing 40 extra hours at a car with a month to go when you have a job.  I don't even have 40 hours into my 2022 car and it could compete for top 5 tomorrow.  One would expect typically that head bolts come back out and go back in, but in this case probably because dissimilar metals that the block threads got damaged.  I think stepping up to the next size is the logical answer and if a same exact spec but 1/2" head bolt isn't available then a stud physically is "as close to identical as possible" per the rules
 

In my opinion this is not much different than "i bought a car with a working (x) and it failed in driving or testing prior to the event and the bolt ripped the threads out of the (y) so we had to fix (y) to perform the repair of (x).  
 

also feel free to send a free ls4 my way because i think I have a starter and rwd transmission setup figured out but need a guinea pig engine to test with.  

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Tom, Does this situation  meet the spirit, interpretation and intent of this rule?

Clearly we would not have put this car together with any suspect parts.  We have run/raced it 36 times.  We had issues on one bank a month ago.  The second back developed issues yesterday.  We are in need of an answer as soon as possible.

In reply to Patrick (Forum Supporter) :

We have multiple engines making higher HP numbers with stock spec bolts.

Feel free to pick up an LS-4.  We junked one last weekend and don't plan to be in the LS-4 business after we accomplish our current goals.

In reply to wheels777 :

Hang on... you just raised a question for me. 

Is this a repair to an engine in an assembled car that was already built to the budget standards and broke during testing or competition?  Or was it an engine in a pile that needed stud repair before it could be serviceable?

The first one is clearly an emergency repair per the rules. I don't think the second one is. 
 

The rule allows much more than swapping a couple studs. It clearly allows full engine swap. However, it allows it in the context of damage done to a completed car that is being used in daily use or competition, not as part of the build process. 

In reply to wheels777 :

I think your emergency repair meets the intent of the rule. 

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

It has been assembled and raced since June of 2020.  It is an issue that developed after being raced competitively.  We ran it at LS Fest last year.  We set the LS-4 Challenge records with it.  This was not a known issue that is being masked with a rule, it is a repair of a running assembled race car.

In reply to wheels777 :

Then all is good. I see no problem. 

Tom Suddard said:

In reply to wheels777 :

I think your emergency repair meets the intent of the rule. 

Thank you.  I know it is up to the jury.  However, your opinion is absolutely relevant.

I want everyone in Florida to spent time having fun.  Holding court is going to be a real negative.  The bolts will be visible on the outside of the engine and should be questioned.  However, our intent is for everyone to be drama and stress free.  Disclosing this last minute change is in my opinion the best way to avert a potential negative influence for us, 9 of our competitors and/or your staff.

With the caveat that I am highly unlikely to make it there this year, and even less likely to compete, I would not protest it, and I doubt any regular would.  I think the safest thing to do is include documentation in the build book of what boost/power level you are trying to limit to, and provide some evidence (specific cases, or general internet knowledge) that you are not pushing the engine beyond anything it could handle with stock head bolts.  I am guessing this shouldn't be too hard, since you said LS4, and the transmission is more likely the limiting factor.

Hi all.  Long time, no post...but starting to look around at the board as the Challenge comes up.  Looking forward to seeing everyone again.

In my opinion, this is a non issue.  Stock bolts or 1/2" studs will not make the car faster or any more reliable at the power level you're running with that motor.  You needed to go to 1/2" to repair a block that was damaged in testing.  Bring it, send it and have fun.  

I do have one suggestion...stop testing and breaking stuff and your problems go away.  :-)

Pat