MODERATOR NOTE: THIS THREAD IS OUTDATED. THESE RULES ARE WRONG.
https://2000challenge.com/rules
These rules have been updated for the 2022 event. Green text denotes changes.
Tires used during the autocross must have a UTQG (treadwear) of 200 or higher. Tires with a lower UTQG may be used during the drag race.
I'm actually happy about this plus this one that I was going to bring up.
Exhibition Vehicles:
No $2000 Challenge car? No problem. Vehicles that don’t fit these rules (but do meet safety rules) may compete in the exhibition class. They’ll get all the track time and all the fun, but aren’t eligible for any trophies and won’t be judged in the concours. Vehicles running for exhibition will be marked with “Exhibition” stickers.
I thought it was stupid to judge them in concours this year. Violates the 12 point principle.
Just to clarify, 2000challenge.com still points to the placeholder page. We haven't officially unveiled the 2022 site yet.
But, yes, those are the changes we're planning to add to the rule book.
Well, E36 M3. The amc just got outlawed....
Its getting setup specifically for nascar size slicks. And i already bought them.
Any chance of two classes? 200tw, and outlaw for 2023?
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
I got some you can borrow. I think $0 budget hit for wheels and tires.
I've only heard of the challenge since joining here to ask an unrelated question a couple yr ago;
but I believe I read along the way ( pre covid, of course) that the exhibition class was intended to be for cars that were trying to meet budget, but did not quite make it. Not for cars that knew they wouldn't come close.
1) I could have misunderstood?
1 A ) if I didn't, is this no longer the case?
If it was allowable for 2020, I had a car I could have built for about $3000 that would have been fun; but would not have been fun at budget.
Moot point, as I no longer have that car, and could not come close to affording it today, anyway!
In reply to 03Panther :
It's an moving target I believe. I know at one point Tom put his foot down and said it was a whoops thing only.
Wtf?!?! I spent $1400 on Purple Crack!
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:
Wtf?!?! I spent $1400 on Purple Crack!
That was my plan......lucky I'm a slow builder. Now I have to rethink what I'm doing.
Stampie said:
In reply to 03Panther :
It's an moving target I believe.
I imagine the difference in attendance considering the current environment may make a difference in that class, as well!
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:
Wtf?!?! I spent $1400 on Purple Crack!
And that's the root of this change. I want more people to the attend the event, and requiring a $1400 set of tires to be competitive is a huge barrier.
You'd still be welcome to run the Hoosiers in exhibition.
Regarding Exhibition: Yes, more entries will be accepted this year. I want more people to join the party and see what it takes to win the Challenge, and joining the exhibition class is the best way to bring those new people in.
Instead of $1400 worth of Hoosiers I'll be looking at $1000 of BFGs and finding a new set of bigger wheels.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
Pretty sure the Bradley GT didn't have $1400 of Hoosiers or $1000 of BFGs. A good build doesn't need a crutch in great tires.
I think, with the current crop of 200tw tires its till going to be a spending war on the tire front. I think thats the internet of the rule change. Dont get me wrong, its a good start. And its in line with a lot of tbe readership being 200tw users for hpde/autocross.
But i think, for me, the place to think about making changes is the tube frame/hacked up and only suited for the challenge stuff. I realize thats a slippery slope and very hard to define and ultimately regulate. So probably not viable.
Edit: not to detract from gumby and nocones. They are building legit race cars on 2k. But, in showing some folks ive been telling about the challenge the kind of stuff that comes to compete, i get a lot of "i can't compete with that, so i won't bother ". I know different, but im having a hard time communicating it to new blood. I know im not communicating this well today, so i will stop commenting and try to get a good, well written thought process going. End edit
Once i get over myself, ill figure out how to play in the new rules with something i want to own afterwards, but i literally just bought my tires yesterday. So it stings a bit.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Well, fdat is in a similar boat. Designed around race tires, will require some re-thought for sure.
Disappointed in this change with my $1200 in hoosiers
I want to state that my approval of the 200tw rule is biased in that I think it will help my build. And all that stuff that Tom said also.
On the record i have found it way easier to get super cheap takeoff a7 and r7 with life left than used 200tw stuff.
i guess i think this just misses the entire point of the event, why are we building limitless racecars and then crippling them with a 200tw tire? It would make more sense to say budget your first 4 tires @ 50% vs $0 to keep people from spending $1200 on hoosiers
Does anyone know if a 13" 200TW tire exists? My future challenge project will likely be on 13" wheels and the only 13" sporting tires I can find are purple crack or 100TW R888Rs.
I welcome the 200TW tire change but am pouring one out for the car with 10" rims.
The LMP360 had $0 worth of Take off R7's this year. Next year it was going to have $1400+ worth of sticker A7's. I'm very happy that now it will instead be $700 worth of 200TW tires. This will make my number of rims around the house lower and make the car run the exact same setup at the 2022 challenge and the UTCC if it makes it in ever.
Also the bradley had a set of takeoff A7 i got from an a sedan mustang racer for $100 or something.
Dusterbd13-michael said:
I think, with the current crop of 200tw tires its [s]till going to be a spending war on the tire front.
Yup. What this changes is the availability of used tires for Challenge competitors, and not in a positive direction relative to real world dollars.
Cars like LMP360 and Brad don't care as much; they will be just as fast on a 255/17 200tw as on used 245 a7's, but it will cost more. Heavier cars will need a larger wheel+tire now. In many cases, the CAM sizes aren't cheaper as 200tw vs a7, are less available used, and the wheels cost a grip.
I have a difficult time seeing this as a move which lowers the barrier of entry.
I ran my Miata in 2017 on Hoosier SM7s that literally were pulled out of the take-off pile at Waterford Hills.....zero cost. As for autocross tires being "a crutch" I built a car to utilize a tire width of 275-295 and to do that now I'll need to find larger wheels , like a 17x9. New autocross tires are no more "a crutch" than brand new drag slicks. And, as has been pointed out, using used race tires isn't possible now. I'll rethink what it will take to adjust my build, or look at bringing something else.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
Not trying to be an shiny happy person but if you are arguing that cheap slicks are the answer then why are you also saying you would have spent $1400 on new slicks? There must have been a difference in performance to make the out of pocket expense worth it.
Just bought some 10.5" wide Avons. Bummer.
