In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
I understood the thought process well... I KNOW I can't be on the sharp end, for 2K. But I also know I could have a lot of fun on that budget.
Still being an outsider, I think the rule will help the event, overall. Although obviously painful for a few (VERY cool!) cars.
Maybe a small class for unlimited tire?
In reply to 03Panther :
Wanna be an insider? Zebra Butt Racing (aka Team Stampie) has an open door policy to new members willing to show up at the Challenge and come up with stupid ideas in the parking lot.
Considering the Rampage came with 8 hoosiers,4 brand new, this kinda sucks a lot.
In reply to Stampie :
Because I've put a lot of time and effort into building this car and I feel I may as well spring for the fresh tires to improve my performance. I also intend to autocross the car after the Challenge and the Hoosiers would be used for that. Using used race tires allows those who want most of that level of grip to get it for much less than the cost of a fresh set of 200 tread wear specialty tires if they don't want to spend serious money. I need time to think this through, but right now I 'm looking at larger wheels to utilize wider available sizes in 200 tread wear, OR I'm looking at buying a 15" tire in a 245 width and 200 tread wear and giving up some width to the 17s. Neither option would be a good choice for autocrossing the car after the Challenge, so I'd probably try and recoup as much as I can by selling them off.
Tom Suddard said:AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:Wtf?!?! I spent $1400 on Purple Crack!
And that's the root of this change. I want more people to the attend the event, and requiring a $1400 set of tires to be competitive is a huge barrier.
You'd still be welcome to run the Hoosiers in exhibition.
I have no dog in this race, but at this point the pointy end 200tw tires are every bit as expensive as Hoosiers, if not even more so.
If you're planning on using a car beyond the challenge and you've already sprung for slicks remember that tires are consumables and you'll use them. If you're road racing or running track days then you'll use them fairly quickly.
I am going to ask a question out of my own lack of awareness and not being ignorant.... do people who are going to run A7s or A6s and are going be competitive in October next year actually own their tires right now? Don't shoot...I actually don't know. I thought A-x tires were very time/age sensative.
In reply to wheels777 :
My Challenge a7's this year were dated from 2017.
I was planning to buy my A7s around may/june
Take off 25 compound bias plys are common and cheaper than good 200TW tires. It doesn't have to be a spending contest if you don't want it to be.
In reply to wheels777 :
I don't , but I was going to buy them in a few weeks. So, I'm not out a dime at this point, but this has budget implications and I'll end up with some 200TW tires I didn't want. This rule restricts me to available 245-15 widths on my 15x10 rims ($50) or requires that I buy a larger diameter and wider wheel to run something in a 265-275 width. I've been browsing FB Marketplace since Stampie started this thread to find wheels and/or adaptors to use 5 bolt rims.
See if this guy USDRRT will run an add a few months before the challenge. Pricing issue solved.
A Falken Azenis RT660 in 275/40/17 size is $243.91 at TireRack.The Hoosiers I had intended to run (275/35/15) is $351, so there is a significant difference.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:Wtf?!?! I spent $1400 on Purple Crack!
Sorry in advance...
Aren't these going to age out way before you get the car done?
Sorry, couldn't help myself....
(I actually really enjoy your thread and build!)
I've got a car that depends on it's race tires (non DOT) to be most of the suspension, so there was some designing around a tire. Changing that will have budget implications.
And I'm not sure what 200tws would even fit a 10x8 wheel...
My car is pretty darn "one trick pony" as well and really doesn't have a spot anywhere but the challenge.
I'm not whining here. I mentioned earlier and I still feel this is just a new challenge that will require flexible thinking to overcome. That's the fun part!
Edit, on my phone and can't seem to fix the formatting. No quotes intended.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
Nankangs are $289 for 275/35 and A052s are $263 for 255/40. Which shows how much wheel size is going to come in to play, too.
Stampie said:In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
Pretty sure the Bradley GT didn't have $1400 of Hoosiers or $1000 of BFGs. A good build doesn't need a crutch in great tires.
Not sure if serious. Great tires are never a crutch.
In reply to wheels777 :
I bought mine in 2019, and they've been stored properly since then.
Tom Suddard said:AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:Wtf?!?! I spent $1400 on Purple Crack!
And that's the root of this change. I want more people to the attend the event, and requiring a $1400 set of tires to be competitive is a huge barrier.
You'd still be welcome to run the Hoosiers in exhibition.
If you want to get more people to participate, make it easier to understand. No free anything. The hardest part of explaining the challenge to people is the "oh yeah, you're allowed _____ that doesn't hit your budget." No matter, I'll burn up the Hoosiers locally and buy whatever the top dog 200tw tire is in C5 sizes for the Challenge.
As we know, a lot of builds/design exercises begin the day after the Challenge ends. I'd like to suggest this tire rule change take effect for 2023.
sounds like more than a few other Challege vets would appreciate that.
wheels777 said:I am going to ask a question out of my own lack of awareness and not being ignorant.... do people who are going to run A7s or A6s and are going be competitive in October next year actually own their tires right now? Don't shoot...I actually don't know. I thought A-x tires were very time/age sensative.
I've used the same A7's for 3 years. I've been about 1/10th of a second off the win each year.
wheels777 said:I am going to ask a question out of my own lack of awareness and not being ignorant.... do people who are going to run A7s or A6s and are going be competitive in October next year actually own their tires right now? Don't shoot...I actually don't know. I thought A-x tires were very time/age sensative.
I store mine in the basement. I have the a7's i paid $1200 for (intended for 2020 challenge but will still be good for 2022) and they're from 2019 and tbh never would have bought the car if i knew i would have to buy more tires. We have a solution that will probably break tom's brain so we have that going for us. But i also flared the car based on that specific combo.
Fwiw i listed my a7's for sale as soon as i saw this because i'm a casual autocrosser and don't plan to run local this coming year.
I'm actually kinda pissed about this. This change makes my build a lot more expensive and difficult, because I am planning the entire build around using stock (AKA free in budget) 13" wheels up front.
Guess how many tires are available in 185/60R13 or 205/60R13? Exactly 2: either 100tw Proxes R888R (which most Lotus Europa owners run on the street) or Hoosier R7. Or I can stance-stretch a trailer tire on them. Now I can't use the extremely rare Lotus-specific-lug-pattern mag wheels at the Challenge, period. I will be forced into buying extremely expensive wheels of different diameter, or having to machine and re-lug the original hubs, plus buying new wheels. I have been planning this for over a year.
Why wasn't there a town hall on this rule change before making it?
Booo to 200tw. I already have a set of tires, nitto nt01's, which are 100tw. Looking through summit, even drag radials are only 100tw... this really sucks now.
maschinenbau said:I'm actually kinda pissed about this. This change makes my build a lot more expensive and difficult, because I am planning the entire build around using stock (AKA free in budget) 13" wheels up front.
Guess how many tires are available in 185/60R13 or 205/60R13? Exactly 2: either 100tw Proxes R888R (which most Lotus Europa owners run on the street) or Hoosier R7. Or I can stance-stretch a trailer tire on them. Now I can't use the extremely rare Lotus-specific-lug-pattern mag wheels at the Challenge, period. I will be forced into buying extremely expensive wheels of different diameter, or having to machine and re-lug the original hubs, plus buying new wheels. I have been planning this for over a year.
Why wasn't there a town hall on this rule change before making it?
It's sucked the entire wind out of my challenge sails and honestly I don't want to knee-jerk but I probably would plan on not going if grm didn't have $345 or so of my dollars from pushing registration from 2020/21 out to 22.
i feel silly for buying something last week that was going to be a challenge build, and honestly why bother anymore? Real world dollars are more important than challenge spreadsheet dollars to me and i believe this rule berkeleys most competitors in real world dollars.
i don't need this E36 M3, this is supposed to be fun not a pain in the dick. Literally went from drawing challenge car suspension designs in my notebook to berkeley this bullE36 M3 last night.
I have zero desire to exert any effort on a challenge build now, so i guess if that's what you were going for it looks like you're on the right path, and if how hard my phone blew up yesterday is any indicator I am not speaking for only myself
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