That's probably the best idea, honestly. You'll get a bit more power and you won't be spending a fortune on a new car. And then you wouldn't have to worry about wrecking a rapidly depreciating new car, since insurance usually doesn't cover track usage.
Anyway - wife says I can buy a boat instead....
Back in the day (early 2000s), I loved the PTG Petit Lemans M3s. They shoveled a V8 in those and ate Porsches for lunch. I'd go for something like that with your current M3. Maybe an LS motor makes more sense now, but BMW has made a few decent V8s if you want to keep it all BMW. If you make the M3 faster, why not get a more mundane Cayman for the daily driver? It's a wonderful car to drive.
Part of my decision is based on already having too many vehicles ( current count is 8 cars and 2 motorcycles) Unless I was willing to let go of the M3 to make room for the bucket list car, I am out of real estate to park anything else. My current DD is a 650i Gran Coupe with an M package - it is pretty entertaining for the daily commute.
Flatspot said:After a lot of thought (not really - just temptation) I am going with an s54 swap. This M3 just has too much history with me to replace it.
Do a bit of suspension work and put it on a diet while you are at it and it's still going to be a giant killer. My 2950lb BMWCCA IS E36 was dropping low 14's at NJMP Lightning and high 23's at Summit Point with an S52. My much lighter E30 CM car with a 350whp S54 was licking 11's and low 20's with a horrible trailing arm chassis (modified to not suck as badly). If I had put that in the E36 with a 5sp and 3.64 rear gears it would have been a fantastic track day dragon slayer (it just would not class well for actual racing). It's a fantastic motor if you make sure to care for your main and rod bearings (oil cooler, accusump, proper baffles) and pair it with the ZF 5 speed trans / better gearing.
Do a build thread - everyone loves pictures.
Fspot, not being versed on the BMW alphanumeric soup, I googlefoo'd s54. Will you be doing any additional mods to this bullet, or will it simply be plug n' play?
the engine itself is as close to bolt in as you can get. It's the electronics that might get tricky. I know an S52 from an E36 M3 is both bolt in and plug and play as the engine harness simply plugs into the car. The S54 came in the later E46, so I am unsure all that it entails.
Personally for that much money, I would try to get my hands on a Euro S50 from an E36. Then it would be plug and play
mad_machine said:the engine itself is as close to bolt in as you can get. It's the electronics that might get tricky. I know an S52 from an E36 M3 is both bolt in and plug and play as the engine harness simply plugs into the car. The S54 came in the later E46, so I am unsure all that it entails.
Personally for that much money, I would try to get my hands on a Euro S50 from an E36. Then it would be plug and play
E46 motors into E30/E36 has been figured out for nearly a decade on the electronics side.
z31maniac said:mad_machine said:the engine itself is as close to bolt in as you can get. It's the electronics that might get tricky. I know an S52 from an E36 M3 is both bolt in and plug and play as the engine harness simply plugs into the car. The S54 came in the later E46, so I am unsure all that it entails.
Personally for that much money, I would try to get my hands on a Euro S50 from an E36. Then it would be plug and play
E46 motors into E30/E36 has been figured out for nearly a decade on the electronics side.
^ Yeah this ^ No problem. Plug and play. The euro S50 in the US costs more than the difference of just buying the plug and play electronics and when you blow it up you can't just go to a junkyard and get another low miles one from an auto E46 M3. S54 all the way.
Plug n play depends on how much functionality you want. There's a really nice harness out there, can't remember how makes it, that'll get the S54 running in an E36, stand alone.
However (!!) if you want everything to work like factory, be smog legal, and you're planning on bringing over the E46 ABS, traction control etc, then it starts to get more interesting.
At that point you need ABS sensors, different E46 steering column, E46 brake booster, MZ3 S54 instrument cluster, OBD2 fuel tank, E46 emissions canisters, and a load more wiring.
There's a really good write up on Bimmerforums where a guy made a California legal S54 E36 swap and he shows what he needed to do....
Huckleberry said:Flatspot said:After a lot of thought (not really - just temptation) I am going with an s54 swap. This M3 just has too much history with me to replace it.
Do a bit of suspension work and put it on a diet while you are at it and it's still going to be a giant killer. My 2950lb BMWCCA IS E36 was dropping low 14's at NJMP Lightning and high 23's at Summit Point with an S52. My much lighter E30 CM car with a 350whp S54 was licking 11's and low 20's with a horrible trailing arm chassis (modified to not suck as badly). If I had put that in the E36 with a 5sp and 3.64 rear gears it would have been a fantastic track day dragon slayer (it just would not class well for actual racing). It's a fantastic motor if you make sure to care for your main and rod bearings (oil cooler, accusump, proper baffles) and pair it with the ZF 5 speed trans / better gearing.
Do a build thread - everyone loves pictures.
Niiiccee lap times.
What did you do for brakes?
I'm on the ragged edge with E36 325/328 calipers, rotors, and 3 channel ABS, and I'm only at about 250 crank HP. Headed for 350-380.
Not trying to jack Flatspot's thread, but I figured he's headed for 350 HP so now he wants to know too.
In reply to JBasham :
The E30 CM car had E36 M3 spindles and rotors with Wilwood Superlite 4 pistons out front. M Coupe control arms and rotors with Wilwood Minilites at the rear. It also had overhung Wilwood pedals/balance bar and valve. But, at 2300lbs with me in it - it was adequate for hauling it down from 150 on slicks pretty well if not super confidence inspiring to dive inside someone at corner entry without making a cloud out of a $250 tire. If I had it to do over again I'd have plumbed in a tunable 4 channel ABS from a junked E46 M3. Back then I was all about being hardcore and saving money ... losing changes that opinion quickly :)
On the IS car I was rule limited to stock M3 brakes so it's just good ducting and Hawk DTC-60s. Honestly - the best thing I did for my brakes was discover when I didn't really need them. That took a few coaching days with a pro - so a lot of money into the nut behind the wheel. The E36 with a proper cage, solid bushings and good attention to chassis setup (and, to be honest, some expensive diff ramp angle magic) really does well on corner entry so you can carry a lot in without upsetting it. On DOT slicks it's not over-steery with a stock S52 (IS rules again) and 3.64 gears so you can get to full throttle very quickly and drive that extra speed out again.
Flatspot said:After a lot of thought (not really - just temptation) I am going with an s54 swap. This M3 just has too much history with me to replace it.
Good move! Plus when you get tired of that, there's always boost. :)
I was in the same boat. You're not gonna find cars that handle better than your currently modified car. So I say, go for a car in the opposite direction - find something that has tons of reliable HP from the factory and can spank most cars on the street. That way, you'll have your fun E36 M3 when you want to hit the corners, and your fast straight line corner car when you feel like that. In addition, just because the car is fast in a straight line doesn't mean it won't handle well either - C6 Z06 can basically do it all.
Had some fun yesterday - managed to get a private day at a local track for a small group of friends, some of whom have never been on track. Had a small but interesting collection of cars to play with including 4 spec miatas in various states of prep, a spec e30, my M3, a 2016 Z07 and a 2017 X6M. Great track with almost 200' of vertical change over 2.3 miles and 12 turns. I just installed a 3.83 diff and yanked out the rear sway bar in order to better deal with some uphill switchbacks. With only 8 of us we had more track time than usual. Driving this assortment of cars back to back just reinforced my desire to stick with what I have ( although the Z07 in factory form is simply insane). Now I just need to find a good transplant candidate.
Isn't it great to have the whole day at the track, without the grind of the HPDE schedule? Really relaxing. I love drivers' clubs. Too bad more people can't handle the weekday timeslots.
In reply to JBasham :
Spent Friday at a new track - Club Motorsport in NH. Pretty amazing track. Got to ride in 2 cars with S54's - an E92 with many mods including a Tune by Epic that delivers 360WHP and an insanely beautiful fully race prepped build of an E30. very different rides and very different experiences but both confirmed I want my S54. My car held its own - likely the 3.83 diff made the difference as this track has over 250' of vertical change.
E92's have V8's, not S54's....
In reply to Flatspot :
Are you swapping engines or are you paying someone? Jakeb on this forum does this for a living. Check his website:
http://www.classicdaily.net/2014/06/07/its-in/
In reply to docwyte :
Sorry - meant e46.
Build a German Camaro with an E28, the original 6 series coupe, with a V8 and a manual trans. Make it kind of loud.
EDIT: There's a 2000 BMW M5, flood damaged, on Copart in Fla. Buy it now for $4300. Save the driveline, ditch everything else. Profit!
pres589 said:Build a German Camaro with an E28, the original 6 series coupe, with a V8 and a manual trans. Make it kind of loud.
EDIT: There's a 2000 BMW M5, flood damaged, on Copart in Fla. Buy it now for $4300. Save the driveline, ditch everything else. Profit!
E24 is the 2 door.
Gah, I meant E24, good catch. This is a good plan, I think, if someone has enough funding and can find the right team/shop/wizards to put the whole thing together.
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