Thanks for taking all the pictures as it comes apart. I've never really seen the inside of the block on a flathead motor. Pretty cool.
Thanks for taking all the pictures as it comes apart. I've never really seen the inside of the block on a flathead motor. Pretty cool.
The spring loaded measuring thingies are telescoping gauges. They are extremely accurate if used properly. First loosen the lock and compress until it will fit in the hole. Second holding at approx. 5 deg off plumb allow the gauge to expand to fit the hole. Tighten the lock, not to tight but tight enough to hold against the spring. Now rotate the gauge over center to set the size make sure to rotate through the axis of the telescope part. Tighten the lock. Now you have a very accurate rod the same size as the hole. Measure with a micrometer.
Well damn. That makes complete sense and is totally not the procedure I followed. Side note, I made up the procedure I went by.
Tonight shall be filled with measurements and math and bourbon.
What do you need machined on the block? If it measures out can you just hone and reassemble?
mazdeuce: The reason I think a simple hone will not work is due to the #3 cylinder. The engine was frozen and when I unstuck it, there was some damage to the cylinder wall. I'm not a patient guy, I'm haunted by the what if's of being more patient.
Following Zordak's instructions, I redid my measurements. This highlights a character flaw of mine. I have always been able to pick things up pretty quickly. A life time of that means that I'm also quick to assume that the tool I'm using is inferior because in my head I'm obviously smarter than the tool that I have never used and never had seen anyone else use...... This is until someone comes along and says...uhhh dude, you probably used the tool wrong.
On to the measuring!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/RZfHetzEgeI
I finished measuring the remaining cylinders (and the bourbon) and found that if it wasn't for cylinder #3, I'd probably be ok with a dingle ball hone.
I plugged the data into a spreadsheet and then averaged the numbers:
I'm in uncharted territory, and the machine shop will do all this themselves, but given the above - I should be ok with an .020 over bore? Right?? Can I just over bore the cylinders or do I need to do something with the crank as well?
Boring to .020 over size means new pistons, which means a crankshaft re-balance is in order. If you can try to find a shop that has done one of these engines before, they will be able to tell you more about the tolerances. Just judging by the sizes you have listed a good 3 step honing would clean up all 4 cylinders. Unfortunately the picture does not tell me what kind of damage is in the #3 cylinder.
These pictures show the damage better. I don't know how to measure the damage aside from it being deep enough to catch my finger nail.
I think a lot of what you're seeing in #3 is just rust, you'll need to clean it up to see how bad the underlying pitting is, EDIT: missed the last post, yeah, that needs bored. I'm also thinking something might be up if you're measuring the holes as .005 under the listed stock bore diameter. Don't trust cheap digital calipers, this is a micrometer's job, numbers are still useful though since they seem to be precise enough and show a taper. I wouldn't doubt it if that's at or near the limit for wear/taper (close to .003), shouldn't be too hard to find that data for an engine used in jeeps.
Interesting - I didn't know to look for a taper limit spec. A quick google provided:
Cylinder Bore Diameter -- 3.125 to 3.127 in
Taper Limit -- 0.005 in
Out-of-Round Limit -- 0.005 in
The caliper I am using is exactly that, a cheap (HF) caliper. I noticed that I was measuring to a bit bigger diameter than stock and assumed it was the caliper.
Taking the measurements yourself is a good exercise, but in the end the machine shop is going to check everything themselves anyway so they can let you know what's needed.
Exactly. I wouldn't trust any machinist who wanted to use my numbers. Through this forum I found an old school machinist who has dealt with a few of these engines before. He actually just finish up with one last week, which is liberating for my anxiety.
After a quick conversation :
From my research, some other things I should consider are:
Will the machinist tell me what I need, or should I know these things before dropping off the block?
Cam bearings are typically replaced, but require a special tool and some skill to swap out.
The machinist will inspect the surface finish on the crank and rod bearing journals and measure them for wear, then decide whether or not to grind them to the next size down based on that.
Use brass freeze plugs if available.
I don't think a 1949 would have hardened seats from the factory (inserts or induction/flame hardening of the cast iron), but I could be wrong.
The machinist can check the valve guides for wear.
You will need hardened valve seat if you run unleaded fuel. Detroit started using them in the late 60's to early 70's when it looked like unleaded was going to be the only fuel available in a decade or so.
I'd discuss the hardened seats with the machine shop - certainly, getting them installed isn't a bad idea, but it will cost more money. For a vehicle like this (low compression, low horsepower, most likely will be mostly used for leisurely Sunday drives) it may be another 20 years before the existing seats actually wear out, so that's not a very good return on your investment.
Try the dingle ball hone and remeasure.
Woody - I don't think a Dingle Ball hone is going to get rid of what was left after un sticking the #3 cylinder. You can see the damage above.
Everything changed.
A bit dramatic, but a lot has. Last Friday I received a Facebook message from a guy who needed help with his MB. He was in Gettyburg for a WW2 reanectment and while driving through a field, he noticed a trail of black following him. Using the below diagram, the crankshaft pulley nut (Y) came loose, causing the crank pulley (u) to work its way forward which then dropped the woodruff key (t) behind the oil slinger (s) and chewed up the seal (a).
He couldn't find the crank shaft pulley nut, and needed a new seal and timming cover gasket. He follows some of the stuff I do on Facebook and knew I had an L134 in peices in my garage. He called and asked for some help so I loaded up some tools, parts and oil and off to Gettysburg I went.
When I arrived, I was met with hundreds of men setting up their camps for the weekend. When I say camps, I don't mean they were getting out their Coleman tents and breaking out the marshmallows. These men go deep. All of them were in full 1940's uniforms and all of their gear was of the same era. Everyone had a sense of pride about their gear.
I delivered the parts and supervised (spectated) the installation.
Once done, as we were exchanging a greasy handshake on a job done, he mentioned that he restores old carbs and asked if he could do mine as thanks. I usually would deny, but he mentioned that he does a full cerakote coating and that's something I can't do. He also mentioned that he knew of a good running F134 engine.
The F134 engine, or Hurricane, is the next generation of the Go Devil engine that I have in my Jeepster. To get more power from the block, the induction system was changed from the Go-Devil's side-valve configuration to an inlet-over-exhaust configuration, or "F-head". This allowed the valves to be larger and the combustion chamber to be smaller, improving flow and increasing the compression ratio. This meant an extra 15 horsepower. Oh yeeeaaaah.
A few phone calls later, and this little house of power will be shipped through Fastenal on Thursday. The Go Devil will get back burnered for the time being.
Some good karma there. :)
This is so friggin awesome, I have always loved the jeepster.
I had a grand total of 10 minutes to spend in the garage yesterday and mostly spent it cleaning off my bench.
My wife and I had our first son (Baby Willis, which we call Bdubs for short) 12 months ago . I used to think I didn't have a lot of free time before him, now I fantasize about having that much free time again. I tinker in between his naps and get dedicated time after he goes to bed. Which I'm grateful for. But Bdubs's room is above the garage so I'm very limited on what I can do during the week.
Baby stroller and an engine block. There is little more to know about me.
Anywho, I packaged up and shipped out the Carbs. The correct carb for the Hurricane engine I will now be putting in Willis is called a YS. I have two...barely (the two on the right below). I've had them both for a long time and they mostly have been beating around the bottom of my tool box. The base of one broke at some point and was braised back together, the other has mounting holes that were wallowed out. I'm hoping to use both and have one good one. The bushings are shot on both. I'm happy that they are going to someone better suited for that type of work. The carb kits are dead simple, but putting new bushings in is something I would likely screw up given the tools i have.
No rear oil seals?
That's cool about the new motor. It's probably more important to the reenactors to have everything perfect, and now they know a guy with a rebuildable core in his garage. 
And don't downplay 15hp, as a percentage, it's a massive increase.
NOHOME Wins! No rear main seal was installed on the engine.
15hp is huge when you started with 60.
BrokenYugo said:15hp is huge when you started with 60.
Yeah, it's a 25% increase!
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