1969 Mercedes 200. Because they said it couldn't be done

Well, I tried giving that overcooling problem a go. The overcooling isn't really something I'd be worried about if the car would run fine slightly below its normal operating temp. So really my focus should be on that part, but VolvoClearingHouse, in another thread, told me I could get noticeable butt dyno results by removing my mechanical fan (yes, he knows where I am and what the temperature is like). I'm very hesitant, but I figured I could give it a try. I took out the fan aaaaaaaand...

put it back in. The bolts shanked out with the fan removed and I didn't have any washers on hand that would work to back those out a bit. That'll have to wait till my stuff gets here (oh yeah. The container containing all my household goods? It's been quarantined... They found something "gun shaped". It's my kid's telescope. Apparently it has to go to a lab for testing.)

But did you know the blades on the fan aren't evenly spaced? Again, this goes in the "I'll assume the germans know what they're doing" bin:

Also, unfortunately, there isn't an easy way to remove power to the electric fan. Aside from shutting off the ac that is...

Good times

This caught my eye. It's on my crank and looks like some sort of sensor?

No idea what the heck it might be. But if it were on an injected car, or if my car had a tach, I'd swear it was a crank position sensor.

Good times.

AClockworkGarage wrote: They say dogs are man's best friend but even my worst enemy wouldn't come into my home and E36 M3 on my living room carpet while looking me right in the eye.

You know what?

That's my front porch AND door...

and I even put water out for that little bastard!

TED_fiestaHP wrote: I think if you loosen the 3 screws that hold the choke assembly on, the round part that the hoses connect to, you can then slightly rotate the choke assembly and that will richen or lean the choke. The little brass bit in the window will move, there is a label there "rich with a arrow".

The car is warming up right now (fixin to go run errands) and here's where we're at:

If I twist that housing towards "rich" from this point, the idle screw wont come to rest on its stop when the car is completely cold. That tells me there IS a cam in there and it would do its job if allowed to. Car still coughs and tries to die if not COMPLETELY warm though. Idle screw sometimes comes to a rest on its stop when warmed up, but sometimes I get high idle instead...

If I twist the housing "lean" from this point the idle screw does come to a rest on its stop when the car is completely cold, car still coughs and tries to die when not completely warm. No change in idle screw position when the car is completely warm (obviously).

Hoses to the aqua housing do get hot, and the wire there does have 12v.

I'm thinking one of two things. Either that little brass bit is out of tolerance (ie, indicates richer than it should) or the spring has just lost its spring.

'cept I cant seem to find a replacement spring anywhere...

I might try overclocking that thing in the "rich" direction and see where that gets me the next time the car has a chance to cool down.

Good times.

Back from errands. Two times I had the car shut down for 15 minutes after highway driving. Both times the car required the gas pedal to be pressed to the floor to start again (and even then it took looooong cranks. Sometimes as many as 5 different attempts.). I kept thinking about how handy an accelerator pump would be as I was helplessly standing on the gas and cranking...

Both those times I got back in the car and the temp gauge was above 90 deg c. One time 100deg C ish. The temperature sensor is in the thermostat housing.

Earlier in my errand running, I had a 30-minute break between shutdown and restart and it fired up just fine (this was my first stop. 4 blocks from my house so maybe that was the reason?). No gas, no nothin.

I also stopped for gas (right off the highway). Again no problem re-starting...

More errands tomorrow, so we'll see I guess. But keep thinking back to that book... E-F-I

If only my stuff was here

Wait a tick. If I don't have an accelerator pump... Is there any reason for me to press the gas more than once to start it in the morning? (one time actuates the choke. Usually on carbed vehicles I do three times to squirt a little fuel into the manifold)

Good times.

Right, pumping the pedal does nothing on a constant velocity carb. If you have to floor it to get a hot restart that's usually indicative of the hot engine heat soaking the carb, boiling the fuel in the bowl and depositing it it into the manifold, the engine basically floods itself sitting still. Not much you can do about that (aside from moving away from the equator), just the nature of the beast.

BrokenYugo wrote: Not much you can do about that (aside from moving away from the equator), just the nature of the beast.

This is usually where I say "Challenge Accepted" and go through great, complicated, lengths to make this work but I'll be honest... Whilst I usually love the challenge of keeping old carbureted engines dialed in... This car is in imminent danger of a fuel injection swap.

The carb is interesting to me, but the rubber boots are all well passed their service life and spares seem to be nowhere to be found. I searched all night and can't find a new choke coil. The routing of the intake ducting is over complicated and no longer works as it should (referring to the warm air injection thingy that's just there for decoration at this point).

If it keeps being a pain, I've got diyautotune on speed dial and I'm not afraid to use them.

Before I do that though...

Do you think delayed shutdown of that fan might be an easy solution to this? If I delayed the shutdown of that electric pusher fan for say.... 2 minutes after I got out of the car. Do you think that would vent the underhood heat enough?

A delay shutdown circuit on amazon is $5, and a cheap ebay turbo timer is $20...

Thoughts?

Last night's progress:

Boot removed, and zip ties added ($4 at ye olde local hardware store). I couldnt get that hose I stuffed inside rolled tight enough to get a good seal (carburetor is a little dirty again from that air leak) so I filled it full of epoxy and zip tied the heck out of it.

Op checks good.

This morning I put the car back in the air and adjusted the trans as tight as I could. I thought it was odd I'd be using its full range of adjustment so I did some investigating and found a missing rubber bushing.

It looks like this bushing but is on the other end. Looks like I'll be parts hunting again. Zsolt's got an amazing Mercedes part database on his computer, but he's out of town for the week.

Good times. Now to run some errands, and then it's back out with that carb for a good cleaning/inspection. Tomorrow we play with the cold start circuit

Speaking of carburetors.

I had to go to this place called "The International Veterinary Hospital of Kuwait". It's in the stinking middle of the desert. I got there about 30 minutes before they opened so I took a wander and saw this:

Is that a stinking carburetor ??? At first I thought it was just a TBI setup, but the more I looked at it the more I thought it looked like a stinking carburetor.

Maybe he had heat soak problems too and just got fed up to the point that one day he just left his truck where he parked it.

Here's what the IVH looks like from satellite:

Huge western-like complex in the middle of nowhere (had to drive through car tracks in the sand at one point to get there...

Good times

Went to go for a drive and the car wont shift out of first gear (which is actually second gear, but you get the point). I am about to get an education in automatic transmissions

Limited tools, sandy environment, no backup vehicle, no spares... How hard can it be?

First up. Undo anything I did between when it worked last and now. I un-adjusted that shift linkage 3 turns back in the direction it came. No change.

Second up: Check fluid level. It was below the low line on the dipstick. I added less than half a quart of Dextron 3 type H (it was what came with the car) and now we're a little above the full line. No change

Third up: The interwebz. There is a surprising amount of lack of info on this car. Any transmission fluid threads are about why the w115 manual trans requires type F ATF (automatic does as well). I tried to do some research to see if Type F and Dextron III type H were compatible but the results were as clear as mud.

Fourth up: Apply what little I know to what I dont know. 99% of google results have pointed me toward the "valve body" of electronically controlled automatics, I know mine is planetary and not electronically controlled (The only other fact I know about automatics is "the fluid is red"). So I'm using the results of a TH400 search (same symptoms) as a guide. I'll have to make it up from there. They point me towards the "governor" and a vacuum line. I'm going to go outside to go look at those now.

(also, the manual I bought is still completely worthless. It has the transmission removal/re-installation but doesnt even make mention of what ATF to use, etc...)

Good times.

This video shows the governer on a 700R4 to be near the tail of the transmission on the driver's side

https://www.youtube.com/embed/PRdnl31q4Sc

he also says dirt and debris are sometimes culprits that cause it not to shift. I think that's a good place to start, so I go compare what I saw in the video to what is actually under my car.

I see two potential possibilities:

First is on the driver's side, and I think that's going to be winner winner chicken dinner, but I notice the one on the passenger side has a vacuum line going to it. That must be the "vacuum modulator" I saw mentioned on the JalopyJournal TH350 thread I was reading.

The other end of it terminates at my manifold here:

I don't have a vacuum pump so I use my mouth to draw a bit of vacuum (mmmm tasety) and block it with my tongue. Some time goes by and I don't notice any appreciable loss in pressure so I'm going to say "no leaks" but operation of the modulator is still a question mark to me.

Okie doike. More poking around and a youtube video covering diesel automatics said they had a similar issue and it was the button behind the accelerator pedal stuck, so I gave that a look:

Nope, works as it should.

I went back after that slotted cap on the drivers side, back of the transmission. I'm sure if there is a governor, it is behind that cap, but I can NOT get it off

This link FINALLY gave me an answer as to whether or not dextron 3 was ok, and it turns out it is.

The type F part was an old ford designation and apparently is not comparable to the "type H" designation that followed dextron 3. (Type H was an updated version of Dextron 3, and not a specific lubrication requirement). With that covered, I'm off on foot to hunt down some ATF (I have a filter, I want to look a the valve body, so why not do a flush?)...

Good times.

Hungary Bill wrote: Before I do that though... Do you think delayed shutdown of that fan might be an easy solution to this? If I delayed the shutdown of that electric pusher fan for say.... 2 minutes after I got out of the car. Do you think that would vent the underhood heat enough? A delay shutdown circuit on amazon is $5, and a cheap ebay turbo timer is $20... Thoughts?

My fuel-in-frame Buell does this, about 45 seconds of fan runtime seems to do a decent job of preventing the fuel boiling in the frame rails- and that's with the engine inches away, and two tiny little 5" fans.

Well that was a bust and now I'm completely soaked in sweat.

Out here there aren't really any local auto parts stores. Instead you have to catch a place that does oil changes and the like if you want to buy auto fluids for personal use (or head out to one of two automotive centers previously pictured). A big bummer if your car is stuck in the driveway and you're trying to do your own work.

Here's an idea of what I was looking for:

Obviously I found it, but what I didn't know is apparently they do publishing too!

Unfortunately they were locked up. I bet it's because of the eid holiday...

I did find two places that were open. Both tried to sell me "Golden Eagle" power steering fluid. In Hungary we all put ATF in the power steering reservoir, but I have my reserves about putting that stuff in my transmission.

I know another place, not too far away. I'll hit them up. I bought ATF from them before but I didn't like the way the guys there treated their employees so I was hesitant to go back.

For now? Cool down, replenish fluids, eat something, and maybe watch a few ATF flush videos on youtube (this will be a first after all)

Good times.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote:

Hungary Bill wrote: Before I do that though... Do you think delayed shutdown of that fan might be an easy solution to this? If I delayed the shutdown of that electric pusher fan for say.... 2 minutes after I got out of the car. Do you think that would vent the underhood heat enough? A delay shutdown circuit on amazon is $5, and a cheap ebay turbo timer is $20... Thoughts?

My fuel-in-frame Buell does this, about 45 seconds of fan runtime seems to do a decent job of preventing the fuel boiling in the frame rails- and that's with the engine inches away, and two tiny little 5" fans.

Sweet! Maybe I'll give that delayed shutdown circuit card I saw on amazon a try!

Ok.. So watching youtube videos, I now know what good, bad, and awful transmission fluid looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/o690DovjDAc

So I go out to my car and I pull the dipstick

Looks like my transmission fluid is "good" and not "burnt"

I did add that half a quart of trans fluid though. I wasnt sure if that would skew the dipstick results, but after seeing that my confidence level was high enough to start breaking eggs.

(this is draining while I type)

That's a line that goes into the bottom of the pan and to the cooler, I think.

Here's the towel sample I took from it:

so now we wait!

And in between all this, I've been watching Chris Fix's other video on flushing vs changing. I feel confident that I dont need to completely "flush" the system anymore. Instead I am just going to replace what drained when I took the pan off (a "change").

https://www.youtube.com/embed/yb_1wbiPz9g

In the video he also mentions that vibrations could cause the valve body to come a little loose and negatively affect your shifting. Previous to this I had to let off the gas to shift, I wonder if that was a symptom?

Instead of removing the valve body, I think I'm just going to do what he did and check the torque of the installed valve body bolts. I'll be ordering a valve body repair kit, and another filter from this guy http://www.type300.com/w114---w115.html

I think the filter would be good to have on hand for the nexxt service, and when I do why not refresh the valve body then? (worst case, this filter and fluid doesn't fix the problem and I have a valve body repair kit on order to help eliminate variables)

Good times

Does your carb have a phenolic spacer? If not, can you add one?

It's not phenolic, but there is that rubber piece between the carb and engine (the one that's kind of cracked from age, but not leaking).

I don't think adding one would be too difficult. It'd just be a matter of hunting down the tools and materials.

Ok, so pan off and fluid drained. This is what it looked like (second picture of the valve body just for part number reference)

The 10mm bolts weren't super tight, but I snugged 'em up using my calibrated "torque elbow" to 8ft lbs (+/-).

Got everything buttoned back up, did the row through the gears and I can feel every gate (P-R-N-D-S-L). Let it run until it's up to about 80deg C, and do my final fluid level check.

Take it around the block aaaAAAAAAND?

Clunk. Still wont shift. It does Park, Reverse, Neutral, and Drive. Shifting to "S" or "L" has no effect.

Hmmm. Well, that's day 1

Mercedes 1, Bill 0

Good times.

When in doubt, call in the experts.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/does-anyone-speak-automatic-transmission-1969-mercedes-variety/132475/page1/

Woody wrote: Does your carb have a phenolic spacer? If not, can you add one?

I found a Bakelite spacer... Think that'd do what we want it to do?

(about halfway down on the right column)

http://www.type300.com/w114---w115.html

Woah, Bill's getting some action in the desert lately!

First, the fan with unevenly spaced blades is typical of many manufacturers. I remember it has something to do with harmonics.

The shifter bushing looks identical to the shifter bushings in the W124 Mercedes too. I'd bet the farm that it's the same part.

I'm betting that it is out of adjustment that caused the issue, especially since there wasn't a problem until SOMEONE started messing with it.

You were just envious of my adventures swimming in ATF weren't you?

I must be!

So, I put the trans shifter linkage back in it's original position. I even checked the linkage installation to see if I could have installed it 180 deg out (spoiler alert, I couldnt). The plan now is to look at what I'll call the "kickdown linkage" tomorrow morning, and I'll also be putting that valve body repair kit on order pending a reply from the website. If not, there's one on ebay and the auction ends in 4 days.

There's a reason I made a career working in technology but never brought it home with me: Every time I get close to it, it breaks! Which is great when you're at work because you get paid to fix it, but sucks when you're at home because you have to pay and fix it...

I guess an automatic trans from 1969 is the threshold for my techno-destructive powers

Good times