1978 Mercedes 240D to Electric

I was reading about how France is planning to ban all gas/diesel vehicles by 2040. Knowing this, and if America decides to start believing global warming is a thing and follows in France's footsteps, I feel as if the US will follow shortly there after. (I don't know how true this is. I just wanted to put this in the post because if this does happen in the US, I'd imagine that classic car enthusiasts will probably be pretty frustrated and it might open a new market of "green" cars).

So, like the title says, I want to convert my 1978 240D to electric. I want to use a high quality electric motor, and batteries that give me 200-300 mile range (basically Tesla Model S range). However, unlike a Tesla or other electric cars, I want to tune the engine's power and torque curves so that I don't loose the feel of the original 240D (or really whatever car you want. I want to be able to make my car as fast or slow as I want and still have to ability to tune it so that it feels original, and I also want to put speakers on the car (Sorta like the BMW i8) so the outside world doesn't know that your car is electric (this would also make the inside of your car sound original as well, because it sounds like a regular car.

The reason I'm posting is because this would be a proof of concept for other similar projects, and possibly a company in the future; however, I have no clue if this is possible, how much it'd cost, or what this job would actually entail in terms of mechanical expertise required to make this work.

If anyone has any knowledge of anyone else trying this, or any tips or trick on how to tackle this MASSIVE project, that'd be much appreciated (also anyone who wants to point out how ludicrous the idea is are also welcome).

Do it because you want to, not because of something that may or may not happen 23 years from now.

I read it as a ban on all new vehicles sold. Existing will be allowed (although highly taxed probably). Classics will likely be allowed, although with no one else buying gas/diesel fuel it will probably be $50/gallon.

There are a ton of websites on how to convert a car to electric.

RandyS wrote: Do it because you want to, not because of something that may or may not happen 23 years from now.

Yes, I put the business part in there because you never know, I really like the idea of electric, but I also really, really like classic cars. So this would be, like I said before, a proof of concept. I really like the idea, but I have no clue if I would want to pursue this as a profession or not.

240D is a better candidate for a biodiesel build. Get the guts out of a CRZ and install that into a MGB. Now there's a GRM friendly build.

fixed

In reply to Agent98:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/forum-rules-welcome-to-the-party/104340/page1/

Wel there is certainly lots of conversion info on the net..it can be costly by some means, or some claim it can be pretty reasonable if you have good scavenging skills...

This is 1 of those things I briefly considered a few times..even starting small like my lil xr80 when the engine craps out

Everything you want to do is possible, but expensive. I would cruise around the web and read everything you can about people re-purposing OEM stuff. A Leaf motor, an aftermarket controller, and about 3 leaf batteries would get you a 150-200 mile range car that weighs more than stock but accelerates slightly faster. Re-purposing a Tesla drive unit with a similar amount of batteries would get you a faster version of the same thing.

Edit-got to figure out where to put those batteries too.

So, a range that matches the range of a $125,000 car, in a raw chassis that weighs 25% more, with power consuming acceleration and DIY engineering and programming retrofitted into a 40 year old carcass anticipating a business opportunity 25 years in the future (when the "proof of concept" is over 60 years old), ASSUMING we decide to mimic France??

Am I understanding correctly?

Suggestion...

If you want to come up with a retrofit concept, consider pickup trucks.

For some reason, automakers aren't even looking.

Longitudal rwd configuration for ease of packaging, space under the bed for batteries, chassis already designed to hold the additional weight, and a variety of sizes and marques, all capable of similar packaging. Plus, 50 + years of enormous inventory of vehicles that remain essentially unchanged (at least from the basic configuration standpoint).

In reply to SVreX:

The aftermarket small manufacturer is chasing the utility crowd like crazy. It makes sense-the purchase of vehicles for local government funded businesses is often decided by city or county commissions who operate with a different mindset than the public.

Good luck on your project. I've been slowly doing research to do a conversion of my own on my Bmw 2002. Check out diyelectric car and endless sphere forums, they are a great resource to learn what is involved. AC motor systems are the new way of doing things, but they will cost you a lot more for performance (as the market currently stands). DC motor systems can make big HP numbers at a lower cost than the AC motors, but they are old technology (in the EV world I'd say the AC vs DC debate is like carbs vs efi). Batteries will always be the largest cost, but currently most people like to build packs using components of Nissan Leafs, Chevy Volts, or Tesla. HPEVS sells plug-n-play AC motor-inverter solutions. They don't have high peak horsepower, but they are lower voltage systems which is more beginner friendly. For DC motors, the popular one has been the Warp 9 motor, with a Zilla controller. Considering more people are moving towards the AC technology, you might be able to get some good deals on used DC stuff if budget is a concern. Also check out EV West, they do some cool stuff with classic car electric conversions.

SVreX wrote: So, a range that matches the range of a $125,000 car, in a raw chassis that weighs 25% more, with power consuming acceleration and DIY engineering and programming retrofitted into a 40 year old carcass anticipating a business opportunity 25 years in the future (when the "proof of concept" is over 60 years old), ASSUMING we decide to mimic France?? Am I understanding correctly?

I believe you are, yes. The "proof of concept" thing was because I've never done anything like this, and I'd use this experience to price everything out and see if I really want to pursue this as a career opportunity, and we seem to be moving towards greener fuels. once oil and gas prices get high enough no one is going to want to use them to transport themselves. 200-300mile range is a bit much, however 150-200 is about the minimum I'd be willing to accept. Lastly, the Tesla Model S weighs like 4,500lbs while the 240D weighs like 3,100-3,500lbs

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: the Tesla Model S weighs like 4,500lbs while the 240D weighs like 3,100-3,500lbs

That's without 150 miles worth of batteries...

That type of range is going to require some sort of lithium chemistry. To the best of my knowledge, the batteries that are available to the hobbyist are all of Chinese origin. There is a ton of conflicting information regarding how to manage these cells properly and safely. My personal experience with these cells has been less than pleasant. Mostly management hardware failures and wildly different capacity among the cells. In fact, I am in the process of switching my VW bus back to Lead Acid AGM's. Works for me as I only need 20 miles of range per day. In my opinion, the best batteries and the safest management systems come from the electric cars that you can buy now. The problems start when you try to obtain and adapt these systems. One option that I have been looking at is to use the entire system from a nissan leaf. The used low milage cars are selling at very affordable prices and repair parts are as close as your local nissan dealer. The cost of the entire car is far less than the cost of only the major components and as a bonus, you will get the batteries and all of the wiring, gauges,etc. Have you considered a body swap with a modern ev? Downside, you will not get the range (with a leaf) that you are specifying unless you use multiple battery packs. Of course, there are other ev's out there with more range, but you may run into problems with the manufacturer if they become aware of what you are attempting. Here is one example:

VW Westfalia Conversion

I have been driving and building electric vehicles for the last 20 years.
Until recently, most of the resources for components were mom and pop operations. Some are wonderful and some are horrible with no idea of what customer service means. When components fail, you are stuck waiting for parts to be shipped as most are not available locally and you are often shipping large heavy parts, at your expense, for repair of even small problems with the component ie. cooling fan on a 70 lb battery charger. Of course, the car isn't drivable in the meantime. I have found that the best way to avoid this issue is to use components from the golf cart and boating world when possible. Readily available. Also, keep in mind that many potential customers for updated ev classics are not necessarily capable of repairing or maintaining them and given the potentially lethal nature of electricity you will have quite a big responsibility to protect a buyer from the car. I am not saying that it can't be done, but it will be quite an undertaking. If you decide to convert your car and hold on to it, you need to drive it as your daily driver if at all possible. Batteries are expensive and they don't last if you don't exercise them often.

Build Videos for my conversions are here:

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In reply to Ben_Modified:

Damn, you build some amazing stuff! Continually amazed!

In reply to ToxicTurtl3:

Tesla batteries weigh 1200 lbs.

Don't get me wrong- I like your idea. But you are describing the highest level of technology out there. The cars that achieve performance like that have millions of dollars of R&D behind them.

There are many, many DIY choices that make this possible. However, they do not generally meet the level of performance you are describing.

speakers to make vroom vroom noises?

100% lame.

There is legislation that requires all new electrics to make noise

link

hobiercr wrote: In reply to Ben_Modified: Damn, you build some amazing stuff! Continually amazed!

Thanks!

Ben_Modified wrote: There is legislation that requires all new electrics to make noise link

Jetson's noises better be OK.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/QdWswvLPdE0

In reply to Ben_Modified:

Dude, is there anything you don't build?

SVreX wrote: Tesla batteries weigh 1200 lbs. Don't get me wrong- I like your idea. But you are describing the highest level of technology out there. The cars that achieve performance like that have millions of dollars of R&D behind them. There are many, many DIY choices that make this possible. However, they do not generally meet the level of performance you are describing.

For some reason I wasn't accounting for battery weight... But I mean, I guess it's time to go to school, learn to build batteries and develop one that performs better, with less degradation than that of Tesla's.

But, if I'm understanding everyone correct, there is no way to do what I want to do, to the level of performance and everything, that I want to do this without massive money spent on R&D of my own motor and batteries since otherwise I'd just be stealing for whatever company I choose. Also, if I were to do it right now, I'd have to use jancky parts from unreliable dealers because that's all they sell to hobbyists. Am I understanding correctly?

In reply to ToxicTurtl3:

Not quite.

I'm saying dream big, but learn to recognize the realities and limitations that exist.

You are young, and if you continue to excercise your creative energy you will go far. There is a great deal of innovation and opportunity to learn out there for someone like you.

But I would recommend pursuing some education with a tech school or engineering program, rather thank doing janky E36 M3 in your garage. A couple years at a place like GA Tech (or equal), and you would have vast knowledge and opportunities.

Keep it up.