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DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/4/21 11:43 a.m.

The Engines (There are at least 2)

The primary mover of our PT-40 is a Detroit Diesel 6V-92T “Red”. This is a 2-Stroke Diesel,6 cylinders in a V configuration, each cylinder is 92 cubic inch displacement (total 552 ci or around 9L.) It also has a turbo. And a supercharger. I could gush about these engines all day, they are so cool and different from almost anything else out there. I highly recommend reading more about them or watching Bus Grease Monkey videos online.

2 Stroke sexiness (not mine):

you can see the exhaust manifolds feeding the turbo, which then feeds the supercharger (needed for scavenging at idle). My engine doesn't have any of these pulleys or fan on the front. The front of the engine is actually at the rear bumper of the bus since my bus is a pusher.

The history of these engines is also fascinating, this link is extensive but a good read: http://www.dieselduck.info/historical/01%20diesel%20engine/detroit%20diesel/

Tl;dr - smart industrious guy on his yacht in the 1920s decides to build a better yacht engine. We've all been there.


These engines are pretty old school and demand special care and attention. Only Delo 100 engine oil should be used. Never overheat them. Paper air filter elements only. Extensive warm up time with an engine block heater before starting. And, of course, they run better without any effective muffler system. Our bus has some sort of spark arrestor on it to reduce noise, but to say it’s a muffler is absurd. Its loud. So very very loud. Its so loud it makes hard core Harley riders blush and then plug their ears. Climbing a mountain pass out west, the ever-present concrete road barriers reflect 100% of the side facing exhaust directly into the drivers ear drum. This needs fixing.

"Muffler" on the right. My engine compartment is usually cleaner than this...

A nice thing about this engine is most of the ancillaries are gear driven (water pump, cams, air compressor, etc.) The only belt driven component is the alternator, this is accessed through a hatch under the rear bed.

Watching Bus Grease Monkey videos shows how lots of maintenance is performed. The engine bearings can be inspected and replaced with the engine in place. You just remove on bearing cap at a time; the upper bearing can be pushed around the crank are removed for inspection, neat. Jeff at Gino’s garage actually just did a video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC8W8QdcLRQ (Jeff is one of the guys on Wanderlodge owners group that volunteered to help me if I had issues on my trip home, great guy!)

The engine can also be rebuilt “in frame”. Cylinder heads off, oil pan off, connecting rod caps off, push out the piston from below and then remove the cylinder liner with a puller. I might have some details wrong, but its good to know it can be done. Removing the engine for a full rebuild is best left to someone with a heavy duty forklift

The Detroit has 3 fuel filters: a Racor contaminent filter (for water / dirt / rust/etc., seen above next to the muffler), a secondary canister filter and a primary canister filter. Fuel pump is before the primary filter, its low pressure for a diesel since the camshaft activated injector provides the needed injection pressure. An old school diesel technique is to fill the filters with ATF when changing them; diesel tends to be dirty and you don’t want any debris getting into the injectors. ATF is very clean and a dinosaur like the 6V-92 will run just fine on it (at least in smaller quantities.)

 

The other engine is the front mounted Perkins 4.108 diesel mounted to a Kohler 12.5 kW generator. This engine also had an interesting history, but its seems somewhat boring compared to the Detroit. I love it any ways. Its mounted on a hydraulic mounted ram that pushes the engine out the front for servicing (ram doesn’t work, but will someday). This engine is also loud and stinky, so we usually carry around a 3rd engine (a much quieter Honda E2200 generator) if we don’t feel like completely smoking out our neighbors and don’t have an electric hook up. The Perkins-Kohler can run everything (AC powered) on the bus at the same time (3 air conditioners, residential water heater, engine heater, microwave, battery charger if needed). The Honda could only run one of those at most. Here are some pics of the heroic work the previous owner did on cleaning up the generator. I could eat off it!

before:


after:

PMRacing
PMRacing GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
6/7/21 1:55 p.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

We're neighbors then. I'm 10 min from WHRRI! 

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/7/21 9:55 p.m.

In reply to PMRacing :

Im 10 minutes away from WHRR too! You've probably heard my wanderlodge at some point, my neighbors say they can hear me from a mile away. But not for much longer...

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/7/21 10:28 p.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

I recommend joining the Antique Truck Club of America.  While your RV isn't exactly an antique, there is much knowledge about air systems in that club. 

Run_Away
Run_Away GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/7/21 10:48 p.m.

Well this has taken an unexpected turn, but I'm still 100% interested!

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/8/21 8:18 p.m.

In reply to Run_Away :

Thanks for reading! I was hoping someone else would find this interesting. I will get back on topic sometime soon, but I'm still learning about wanderlodges and Motorhomes myself.

dextervw
dextervw Reader
6/10/21 11:53 a.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

Dude!  This is awesome!  (all of it!)  Whats next on the mini?   

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/10/21 6:13 p.m.

In reply to dextervw :

Short term mini projects:

-dialing in the carb. I rebuilt and installed a HIF44 carb , but it doesn't seem to run right. I need to play with the mixture adjustment screw. Anyone in the Detroit area familiar with these and willing to help?

-fix the hood. The latch pin broke off and I'm not sure how to repair it. I'm pretty sure it was cobbled together at some point in its previous life and I'm not sure what the correct way to do it is. Anyone with a mini have a picture of their hood latch pin and how it attcahes to the hood?

-attach the subframe to the body at the front. I never could get this to line up when I put in the new engine. Any tips? I attached the front sub frame connectors to the subframe, but I think I should have connected them to the body first.

other than that, I just need to do an oil change and drive it!

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/10/21 6:18 p.m.

Long term plans (over winter) are to try and wake the engine up.

I think the 2 biggest improvements to make are a better cam and high compression pistons. The cylinder head has had some work done to it, just not sure how much. Plus it's easier to put a new head on it at anytime. Engine needs to come out for new cam and pistons.

Any recommendations for a cam? Any other recommendations on what to do to the engine and trans while I have them out?

maj75 (Forum Supporter)
maj75 (Forum Supporter) Dork
6/10/21 9:01 p.m.

More Bus pictures.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 UltraDork
6/11/21 8:01 a.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

Read David Vizard's book "Tuning The A Series Engine". I have had very good results with APT cams based on their recommendations regarding vehicle useage.

bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter)
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
6/11/21 1:12 p.m.

I find it amusing that you flew to Seattle to drive a Wanderlodge home to Michigan and I did the exact opposite.

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/11/21 8:24 p.m.
TurnerX19 said:

In reply to DrZRider :

Read David Vizard's book "Tuning The A Series Engine". I have had very good results with APT cams based on their recommendations regarding vehicle useage.

I have that book on my shelf, I will check it again. Thanks!

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/11/21 8:28 p.m.
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:

I find it amusing that you flew to Seattle to drive a Wanderlodge home to Michigan and I did the exact opposite.

Ha! I like to think that the Wanderlodges have a life of their own and get bored staying in one spot for too long. Mine was moved from Ohio to Texas, back to Ohio, Pennsylvania, Seattle and now Michigan.

What kind of Wanderlodge do you have? How was your drive through the mountain passes?

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/11/21 8:52 p.m.

Speaking of Wanderlodges in Michigan, I hope to raise awareness of our peculiar plate fee in this great state. Any vehicle 1984 or newer in Michigan has its plate fee based on original MSRP. Depreciation is only allowed for the first 2 years (?), after that it never changes. I've always had relatively cheap and used cars so I never noticed. But a 1984 Wanderlodge PT40 MSRP was right around $300,000 (!) and this results in an annual  plate fee of around $1,400(!!!!).

Of course, some people have ways of working around this, but I wasn't willing to risk it. Going with an '82 or '83 Wanderlodge allowed me to use the old weight based plate fee that is much more reasonable.

1982 was the first year for the modern pusher Wanderlodge and also around the time the front engine buses commonly came with a turbo. Older wanderlodges than mine had naturally aspirated CAT diesels, leaf spring suspension, less entertaining gauge cluster, and some sort of puke avocado green bathrooms that give me flashbacks to my youth. And of course shag carpeting everywhere, which is just awesome in a big bus full of kids at the beach. sad

Anyways, if you live in Michigan, watch out for high MSRP vehicles. Historical plates will probably cover that ratty old Rolls Royce that seems like a fun project, but not a well traveled old bus. Who knows for sure, I just know I'm happy with what I got. More pics coming!

bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter)
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
6/12/21 12:21 a.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

Mine is a 1981 FC35. It had the NA3208 which made hills painful and stressful, is why it is the one in the build thread forum being repowered. (The fossil) I have had it for nine years I think and actually a GRM member did a prepurchase inspection for me in Flint before I flew out and drove it home. I actually live in British Columbia though.

fwdriver
fwdriver New Reader
6/12/21 10:48 a.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

I am also only a few miles north of the Waterford track  just off of Dixie and have a 66 Mini Cooper that I have owned for 50+ years.  I believe I may have seen you driving the car a couple of times in the past.  Email me if you want to compare notes sometime or need help at  saabfxr@aol.com

 Curt

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed UltraDork
6/13/21 10:32 a.m.

A lot of South East Michigan people here. I am about 40 miles from WHRR and plan to be out there in a couple of weeks for the Big Bore Bash and the following weekend at the annual Corvette Club of Michigan event.

dextervw
dextervw Reader
6/14/21 11:41 a.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

For the HIF44 mixture screw... first pull a plug and look at it,  if its black you're too rich, if its clean/white you're good to lean.  Next get the car up to temp,  make sure your timing is happy (I'm not sure if its timing chain stretch, fuel or what but they all seem to be taking a lot more advance than expected these days) then either

1. If your plugs were clean/white start by slowly turning the adjustment screw in (clockwise) a half turns at a time until the engine just starts to run at a faster (better)idle.   Make note of this position.  Continue screwing slowly in until you hear the engine start to drop in idle speed/quality.  Then back the screw out half the turns required to get back to the previous noted position so its at the peak of good running.  

2.  if your plugs were black then start turning the adjustment screw out.. and follow the same procedure.   

dextervw
dextervw Reader
6/14/21 12:04 p.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

I will try to get a picture of that some time soon... raining here today.  

Yes, best to do to the body first but not terrible to do after.  Best is to set it on the ground and scope down the holes at the front of the car then: if the subframe is low, jack up on the front subframe, if the subframe is high then jack up on the back of the subframe were it attaches to the body under where the front passengers feet are.  If its not moving nicely you can loosen (but don't remove) the top subframe to chassis bolts (either one large one per side or the two littler ones depending on year) 

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/14/21 10:14 p.m.
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to DrZRider :

Mine is a 1981 FC35. It had the NA3208 which made hills painful and stressful, is why it is the one in the build thread forum being repowered. (The fossil) I have had it for nine years I think and actually a GRM member did a prepurchase inspection for me in Flint before I flew out and drove it home. I actually live in British Columbia though.

I remember reading your thread closely when I was first looking for wanderlodges! I'm totally jealous, a repowered vintage wanderlodge would be awesome. I actually prefer the FC35SB floor plan that yours has, especially the working rear window (I have rear windows but they are covered inside by cabinets). I'm looking forward to seeing yours on the road!

DrZRider
DrZRider New Reader
6/14/21 10:31 p.m.
dextervw said:

In reply to DrZRider :

For the HIF44 mixture screw... first pull a plug and look at it,  if its black you're too rich, if its clean/white you're good to lean.  Next get the car up to temp,  make sure your timing is happy (I'm not sure if its timing chain stretch, fuel or what but they all seem to be taking a lot more advance than expected these days) then either

1. If your plugs were clean/white start by slowly turning the adjustment screw in (clockwise) a half turns at a time until the engine just starts to run at a faster (better)idle.   Make note of this position.  Continue screwing slowly in until you hear the engine start to drop in idle speed/quality.  Then back the screw out half the turns required to get back to the previous noted position so its at the peak of good running.  

2.  if your plugs were black then start turning the adjustment screw out.. and follow the same procedure.   

Thanks! Last year my problem was once the car was warmed up and off choke (enricher?) the car would stumble off idle until it built up some RPMs. Above 2000rpm it was fine, but idle up to their it barely ran. I didn't have time to mess with it, but I hope to get back to it next week. Any ideas?

I will try messing with the front subframe mounts. From what I remember, the subframe was jammed into the body and I couldn't get the subframe to go up anymore? I think I need to loosen the giant main bolts and shimmy everything around.

 

dextervw
dextervw Reader
6/15/21 9:46 a.m.

In reply to DrZRider :

 Sounds like its too lean  

DrBoost
DrBoost MegaDork
6/15/21 12:32 p.m.

Hey DrZRider. I'm going to send you an IM, so look in your e-mail box.   
I live maybe 35 minutes from you, and might have a few things to help on the bus and the mini.
Very cool story, and you're after my heart in two different ways with this thread. Well more than two. I used to have a '74 mini 1000, I used to work for Detroit Diesel, and currently have a few items that might interest you.

 

edit: Looks like I can't IM you, maybe because you're new? 

See if you can send me an IM. 

dextervw
dextervw Reader
6/15/21 3:12 p.m.

In reply to DrBoost :

DrBoost to the rescue!  Wish I was closer, I'd come play too.  

 

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