1982 Dodge Rampage w/ Shelby front end & '89 2.5L Turbo-I engine

In reply to Stefan :

I filled the original mount, which wasn't in the best of shape so it's not wholly impossible that I just didn't fill it enough and it's banging around. In theory replacing the mount isn't that bad, but I didn't have much luck with the last time I tried getting the old one out.

That bleeder setup is interesting- but I'm curious, couldn't I just take a blow gun tip for my compressor and set the regulator down where it would need to be (it's actually at 10psi at the moment so I could use it to test the wastegate actuator) and use that with the cap/hose barb setup instead of a sprayer?

Oh, and I need to not forget to drain the coolant (which is actually water and coolant system flush at the moment) and replace it with actual coolant this evening as well, and put some teflon tape on the adapters I'm using for my coolant temp sensor...

Ashyukun said:

In reply to Stefan :

I filled the original mount, which wasn't in the best of shape so it's not wholly impossible that I just didn't fill it enough and it's banging around. In theory replacing the mount isn't that bad, but I didn't have much luck with the last time I tried getting the old one out.

That bleeder setup is interesting- but I'm curious, couldn't I just take a blow gun tip for my compressor and set the regulator down where it would need to be (it's actually at 10psi at the moment so I could use it to test the wastegate actuator) and use that with the cap/hose barb setup instead of a sprayer?

The trick is to not hit the rubber center since that will just bounce around, but to use a punch or a drift to hit the steel edges and work your way around to walk it out.

As to the bleeder, you could do that, but you'd have to watch the fluid levels quite closely to avoid running the system dry.  Also you need to apply the pressure to the master cylinder and then go open the bleeder valve, I'm not sure how a blow gun would work in that situation without plumbing it in and essentially locking the handle on with a zip tie, etc.

A gravity bleed is also an option.

In reply to Stefan :

Yeah, I was trying to hit around the edge. Hopefully it will go better this time...

On the bleeder, I'd likely do what they did- have a plastic hose long enough to reach between the master cylinder and the wheel I was working on so I could be holding the trigger for the blow gun while working the bleeder valve.

To: Stefan

    Got ya.  More familiar with rear drive.

    Bicycle cable.  Puts a new meaning on pedaling the throttle.

Accelerator cable was easily replace (though it’s not trimmed down yet).

coolant is drained and refilled, and the teflon tape I needed to add to my coolant sensor adapter was put on.

Didn't replace the mount- it’s really hard to tell if it’s a mount problem or just vibration from the filled mounts. It’s really bad in reverse, but mostly disappears when you rev the engine. 

Still cannot get it to show any boost or hear it spool up the turbo. I’m at a loss at this point. 

Didn’t bleed/flush the brakes as I figured that would be much easier with helpers tomorrow evening... if we can get it going well enough to be worth dragging down to Florida. 

Tomorrow, pull the cone intake off and look at the impeller there shouldn’t be much play if you grab the center and wiggle it with the engine off and it should spin easily by hand.

Then you can make sure it is spinning while someone revs the motor up (or if you’re brave, while they brake stand it a bit).

That little Mitsu Turbo should spin at nearly idle, but won’t produce much boost until there’s a load applied.

i can only think that either the wastegate isn’t fully closed, you have a boost leak still or the turbo just isn’t working.

This is what you’re working with:

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_turbo.html#1988

In reply to Stefan :

I know the turbo will spin, I checked that on Saturday when vigo was helping me with the timing and diagnosing what ended up being the failed distributor and there didn’t feel like much play in it either. Will have to dig out the mirror (hard to get eyes on the thing buried back there...) to check for it spinning when running. 

Soooo, question- do the turbos between the 2.2 and 2.5 engines interchange easily? In the even that for some reason the turbo itself is just toast I was looking around to see if there were any junkyards along the way that had any turbo Dodges- and surprisingly Knoxville's PAP has a 1985 2.2 Turbo Daytona (and TWO Rampages... O_O ). Assuming the turbo is still on the car, could that be grabbed and swapped onto the LeBaron's 2.5?

EDIT:  Holy crap I wish I had today off (and a vehicle capable of making the drive there and back...)- Knoxville has a stupid number of older Dodge/Chryslers- they also have a 2.5 Turbo Acclaim

Plan of attack for today:

1. Pick up the wheels (hopefully sans old tires) from the tire shop on the way home
2. Get some brake fluid from the parts store
3. Pick up the bourbon to trade for my race tires
4. Put the Rampage up on jack stands, pull the wheels, and do the prep for flushing the brakes
5. Get tools together for trip
6. If there's time before everyone else arrives, work on the street exhaust
7. Once eastsidemav & co. arrive, flush and bleed the brakes
8. Try and figure out if the turbo is putting out any pressure or not
9. Figure out if the front mount is bad or if the stiffer mounts are the problem
10. If it's not too late for as loud as it is, take one last test drive
11. Load it up onto the trailer

Hopefully I'll have the build book mostly finished up by the time I leave work today- I won't be able to totally finalize the write-up and the budget sheet until I know what all is done/used over the next day, but I can at least get it to the point that I just have to finalize things and then print them out.

In reply to Ashyukun :

Yep, they all mount up the same.  A slightly modified Garrett 4-bolt pattern.  So you could mount a larger Garrett with some faffing with the oil and water lines and the hoses.  Its a huge pain to get access to the nuts to get them off, so plan on pulling the manifolds off and using lots of rust breaker.

One caveat: the early 84-87 Turbo 1 turbos need to be notched to clear the intake and they use a different cold side, so that needs to be swapped or adapted.  The early turbos also used a slightly smaller exhaust outlet.  So basically the center section can be useful, but you'll have to track down the proper exhaust and intake parts to make it work.  Refer to Gary Donovan's sie that I linked to for visual confirmation prior to buying.

Basially, stick to 1987-89 intercooled cars (black intake manifolds) because in 1990 the intercooled cars went to the VNT turbo, which requires more vacuum line work to get them to work.

In reply to Stefan :

Good to know, thanks! I'd most likely be aiming for the '89 Acclaim since it should be the exact same engine as the car/truck has in it now (though it's possible one of the 2 2.5 Daytonas has a turbo engine and they just didn't note that).

Don't know if this plan will be remotely feasible though. For speed of pulling it in a junkyard, would it be faster/easier to just pull the head with the manifolds & turbo attached? Wouldn't likely want to try that when swapping it into the Rampage though, since I've been looking and can't find any way to get a new head gasket set before (or even at) the Challenge.

In reply to Ashyukun :

I've seen people drop the axles out along with the front mount and rotate the motor forward to get to the turbo, but you have a number of bits to disconnect to get it to do that.  Might need a block of wood to put between the core support and the oil pan/block to hold it in place.

Pulling the head is a good idea as it gives you a complete spare setup and generally you can pick up a HG at most parts stores still, even if they have to ship it in that afternoon.  The head bolts are good for two uses, but they are usually included in the kits.  So this is what I would do for a U-pull-it.

Did you see this?

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/201x-classifieds/daytona-shelby-5-speed-turbo-nmna-in-georgia/133773/page1/

That could make for a pretty handy buy for recoup purposes....

Well, the Rampage is loaded onto the trailer and loaded down... we think the boost issue may have been resolved, but couldn’t test anything at 11pm with an open exhaust. Will have to see how things go down in Gainesville. 

Unfortunately, due to another member’s breaking down on the way, I won’t have the race tires that the car was supposed to... we’re working on figuring something out to get along the way, share some with someone there, or just run the street tires on it now...

What do you need for race tires size and bolt pattern?

In reply to Stampie :

The wheels I have are 14”, or I need 4x100’s that are no larger than 16” or so. 

Edit: It’s worth noting on the wheels that the Rampage has about 2mm larger hubs than a Miata, so stock Miata wheels won’t work without some grinding/sanding...

The Rampage on the trailer on the  way to Gainesville:

now that I'm caught up... I look forward to hearing your post-race report!
(and work through the live-streams I missed {a lot})

So, back from the Challenge and (moderately) rested.

On the whole, I would call the trip to the Challenge this year a success. I ended up taking 26th-place in a field of 40 cars that made the final results (I believe a total of 46 entered, but not all made it), putting the (or at least 'my') Rampage in the bottom of the top 2/3s of the entries. Both its autocross and drag times were solidly in the middle of the pack, running a 41.42 in the cones and a 17.408 down the strip, and I took the 'Don't Judge Me' option on the concourse, knowing that in the shape it's in now the car would most likely far poorly in the concourse.

The weekend was not without its issues... honestly, at 10pm on the night we were supposed to load it up onto the trailer to leave the next morning, I was still seriously debating whether or not to take the car at all. Ultimately despite its still having issues, we were hopeful that we had resolved the major one I had been concerned with and figured that at minimum the car could make at least a successful autocross run and a drag run, so we may as well try.

Before leaving though, there was one kink in the works (that also contributed to not being sure it was worth going) which was that singleslammer- who was going to the Challenge and bringing the race tires I planned to use- got in touch with me and let me know that they had broken down and had to turn around and thus would not be making the event. So leaving for Florida, I didn't know if I was going to have a set of tires to run on (having already pulled the older street tires off the wheels I'd planned to use).

Once we got down to the hotel, we pulled the car off the trailer to test it out- we had just figured out before loading it both why the turbo didn't seem to be spooling and why I wasn't seeing any boost on the boost gauge (believe it or not, these were different issues...). However in testing it out on the road, the car just felt really sluggish. After a lot of futzing with things and finally working out how to hook up the check engine light, we managed to read the codes and find that there was an issue with the #1 injector bank- and on closer inspection found that the #2 cylinder injector plug wasn't firmly seated and the car had been running on 3 cylinders. That resolved, it ran solidly better.

When we got to the track the next day, I met up with Stampie and coordinated to get a set of 13" diameter NINE INCH WIDE 4x100 wheels & sticky tires to run. After checking out that they would not rub on the body work (too much), it was off to the autocross runs. My first two runs were pretty bad, given I've driven around an autocross course only a handful of times- all of which have been at the Challenge. The pro did a much better job, turning in a 41.420 run- which ended up being only 1/4 of a second slower than my non-teammate teammates' Miata (and faster than another Miata). The car didn't have any significant problems beyond those I couldn't really do much about- like having the struts and shocks that came with it on it still and having done barely any aligning.

The drags later that night however were a bit different of a story. The first run I ran like an 18.2, and it was clear that the car was NOT performing anywhere near its best. For starters, the tires that had worked great on the autocross felt like I slipped for a LONG time on the launch at the drag, and it seemed like (and I confirmed) I wasn't getting boost toward the end. The tires I couldn't really do much about, but the boost I had a pretty good idea of what was wrong and quickly confirmed this: the wastegate actuator lever had fallen off the wastegate itself so the car wasn't building any boost. While (with lots of protective clothing) able to get the actuator hooked up agian, we could NOT get a pin in to keep it from coming off again (I really hate FCA's engineers for this one- it's COMPLETELY backwards from what would seem logical and nigh impossible to do anything about when the engine is on the car and put together).

After a LONG time of fighting with it, I decided we weren't going to be able to get the pin into place and took the car out for one more run with the hopes that it wouldn't come off again. This time I didn't try and launch so hard, and could tell that I didn't lose the turbo until after the 2/3 shift (I think I lost it at 1/2 the first run), and while I don't think the tires slipped as much the car was a NIGHTMARE to try and keep straight, as near as we can figure from the width of the tires and torque steer. This led to my putting down a 17.408 run time- an improvement, but not near what the car/engine combo should have been capable of.

The major upshot of the weekend was making the decision (pretty early on) that I WILL be bringing this car back next year after having a full year to get things sorted and figured out. I know that it's capable of a lot more than it did this year (certainly in the drags and concourse, and likely on the autox as well), and I want the chance to get it there and to improve on it. Plus, it's just a really fun little car that I will be happy to hold on to and improve.

Many, many thanks to eastsidemav (and his wife), Jerry, and wae for their help over the weekend working on and transporting the car; to Vigo for all his advice both before and at the event (and over the next year ) about turbo Dodges; to Stampie for helping with the tires & wheels, and the many other GRMers who lent advice, tools, and encouragement over the course of the event.

Here's a few photos of the car from the weekend:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wesleyhetrick/37809342942/in/album-72157688178100634/
 

You're welcome and it was great to meet you in person. I can't think of a better home for those wheels and tires. They just look perfect sticking out like that. 

So, finally got the chance to watch through some of the 'Live Coverage' from the drags.

Both of my runs were technically caught on camera- but the first one (against eastsidemav) was almost completely obstructed by the commentator so you can't see the Rampage at all.

The second run however (which was the one I was really curious to see...) was FAR better as the camera was actually tracking the Rampage on launch and down the track- which means I can see (from the outside) exactly what happened and I was feeling behind the wheel. Go to about 54:15 on this:

(don't know how that is going to work, so here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LU402Z2RPM)

You can see the car kick HARD to the left shortly after launch- presumably that's the 1-2 shift.

youtube link at the time sighted above:

https://youtu.be/4LU402Z2RPM?t=54m18s

In reply to Ashyukun :

You're welcome.  Maybe I should have been brave enough to ask for a run in the autocross.

So, plans moving forward. In the near-term, I need to get the ute drivable as a normal vehicle. Thankfully that really only requires a few things to be done:

• Exhaust. I'm probably going to try and re-use what I can of the Rampage's original exhaust to save myself some money, and work out the rest (connecting up the downpipe to the original tubing further aft) from junkyard tubing. I may try and work out something that will work for both race and street, but that will depend on what I can come up with in the way of cheap parts
• Hood Latch/Pins. Right now with the failure of the hood release mechanism there's nothing really holding the hood down, so I need to do something about that. Most likely solution is to use hood pins, since I have a set I pulled from a junkyard years back and have never used.
• The forking wastegate actuator pin. This will require (or at least be made FAR easier by...) pulling the front engine mount and using either a jack or ratchet strap to rotate the engine on the remaining mounts to get better access to behind the manifold to reach the connection and get it solid. Technically don't need the turbo- but it will certainly be peppier with it!
• Power Steering. Track down the right length belt for the power steering and get it connected up and (hopefully) working. I would still love to find a manual rack in a junkyard to drop in, but I don't know how likely that is or if I can make room in the budget for it (without selling off the PS setup).

There's obviously a LOOOOT more that will be done on the car over the next year- but those should be it (other than potentially doing some grinding/filling/sealing of rusted areas) until next Spring. I do intend to be working on things that don't necessarily need to be done ON the car (fabricate some camber plates for the Neon struts I should be getting, etc.) but I hope to put the DMC in the garage once the issues with the Jeep are (hopefully quickly...) resolved, so any work done on the Rampage will be done outside.