In reply to Pat :
So with the Grainger valve I don’t need the boost solenoid in the system? Do both of the lines of the turbo/wastegate go to the grainger valve?
In reply to Pat :
So with the Grainger valve I don’t need the boost solenoid in the system? Do both of the lines of the turbo/wastegate go to the grainger valve?
In reply to Ashyukun :
Correct, you do not need the boost control solenoid.
The grainger should be plumbed to the wastegate can. The second line I'm assuming you're referencing is the nipple off the compressor housing....that can be capped.
Pat said:In reply to Ashyukun :
Correct, you do not need the boost control solenoid.
The grainger should be plumbed to the wastegate can. The second line I'm assuming you're referencing is the nipple off the compressor housing....that can be capped.
By the nipple off the compressor housing, I'm guessing that's the one right next to the compressor output to the pipe that goes to the throttle body? I was wondering if that would be a good one to hook the boost gauge up to.
I was referring to the two vacuum lines higher up on the turbo- on mine in (presumably largely) stock vacuum piping, both go to a 'T' and then run in a single line along next to the injectors and over to the boost control solenoid. I was guessing I'd put the Grainger (and the filter it came with) on after the lines joined at the 'T' and then hook that up to the manifold vacuum source.
In reply to Ashyukun :
Maybe try this on your radiator?
https://www.harborfreight.com/medium-tail-pipe-expander-69548.html
So, yesterday was a mixed day of working on the Jeep (hopefully the last major work on it for a while...) and starting to get things figured out with the Rampage.
The good news is that I think I have pretty much got the radiator situation figured out. The LeBaron's seems like it will work well, though I have to shift it over a slight bit toward the passenger side so the nipple off the filler neck doesn't bang into the radiator support. This isn't wholly a bad thing though, as it should give me some room to plumb the intercooler (and possibly the intake) between the rad and support. There's a nice conveniently placed hole on the passenger side where I may be able to run the intercooler line on that side, will have to see.
The bad news is that neither of the new radiator hoses I got will be usable since they're the ones for the Rampage's rad and just don't fit (either because of turns they don't have, or simple length). The good news is that the lower hose that came with the car is in good shape- so for now I'll be using that, and I have an upper hose that should do the trick coming in Friday from Amazon.
I also test-fitted the coolant bottle and the battery tray back into the car. It's pretty tight at the moment, but the wiring is also still a mess and not where it should be, so once I've confirmed everything is working right I can clean all of that up a lot. Using a smaller battery such that I can trim the tray down a bit will certainly help. I'm also pretty much certain that I can't fit the stock airbox- which is fine, I have a cone filter coming in anyway.
The new high-pressure sender and the other items I got from the same seller are on the FedEx truck and should be delivered this afternoon, as are most of the rest of my things coming in from Amazon; the rest of the parts I have ordered are coming in from RockAuto and should be in by Friday, though most of the things arriving later are things I don't need to get the engine going (like the new shocks & struts).
I unfortunately won't be able to really do much though until Friday afternoon- this evening once SWMBO gets off from work (late, unfortunately) we're heading out to spend tonight, tomorrow, and tomorrow night out at a cabin since the rest of this week is Fall Recess for the schools so she actually has a day off where we can relax. We'll get back around noon Friday- and I'll have all of Friday off. So Friday evening and Saturday morning will be a flurry of work getting everything on and together to finally be able to start the car and get it initially mobile.
My goal is by the end of this weekend to have the car mobile and drivable and the harness soldered and cleaned up. Next week I hope to get the new shocks & struts installed and other general things (if the intercooler & piping are in, get those put in as well). I've already planned on taking next Friday off as well, so my goal is to have the car highway-ready by then so I can take it out to one (or more) of the junkyards on Friday to hunt down some bigger front brakes and another set of wheels/tires.
I'll have a bit of time this afternoon and early evening before getting things together for our mini-vacation, so the plan in that time will be:
It's unlikely that I'll get all of that done- but hopefully I'll make decent progress on it so I'm in good shape for Friday.
In reply to Ashyukun :
I'd pull every vacuum line out and run the simplified set up I mentioned. The stock stuff is a mess of plastic lines, some of which are likely cracked. If you want to keep the PCV, the stock set up works very well for moderate applications. I'd say leave that alone, but all other vacuum stuff is usually a mess and not worth keeping.
For boost gauge, you want to run it off the plenum, not off the compressor housing. If you run off the housing, you're getting readings that include backpressure before the plenum and huge spikes of pressure when you close the throttle.
In reply to Pat :
OK, so making sure I'm getting this right...
With eliminating the stock airbox, do I need any other pressure control devices (i.e. BOV), or is the wastegate enough? Thanks!
Ashyukun said:In reply to Pat :
OK, so making sure I'm getting this right...
- The Grainger valve goes between the wastegate (and not any other connection on the turbo- I should remove the 'T' and cap off the other line & the one on the housing, probably with a hose clamp I imagine) and the brake booster line (the booster fitting itself has nipples for connections- I believe that the vacuum connection for the climate control comes off that as well).
- If there is a capped port at the booster, yes, you can use that for the grainger. If you decide to run a blow off valve, I usually use that port for the blow off valve and insert a T in the 3/8" line between the manifold and the booster to run the grainger, but either way is fine.
- Presumably the vac source for the climate control can be left teed off the brake booster?
- HVAC line can stay where it is. It's the engine control stock vacuum harness you and pull and throw as far away as possible. :-)
- The boost control solenoid can be left completely unhooked from the vac system, but needs to be hooked up to the wiring.
- Yes
- The barometric solenoid & MAP should be hooked in as normal (connected to a vac source on the plenum)
- Yes
- The boost gauge should be hooked up to the same source as the baro/MAP
- Really, it can be hooked to any manifold source, but the MAP/FPR side works just fine. I typically use that.
- Likewise with the fuel pressure regulator
- Yes
With eliminating the stock airbox, do I need any other pressure control devices (i.e. BOV), or is the wastegate enough? Thanks!
- The BOV does something completely different than the wastegate. The wastegate regulates turbo shaft/wheel speed, regulating boost pressure the turbo produces. The BOV releases the pressure in the tubing between the turbo and the throttle body at the moment the TB blade is closed. Think about it this way...if the turbo shaft/wheel is spinning at 80k rpms at full boost when the throttle is wide open, when the throttle blade shuts, the turbo is still spinning that fast. Inertia keeps the wheel spinning. Without a BOV, that means there is a massive pressure spike because the compressor wheel is still pushing air, but with the throttle closes, the air has no place to go. That pressure wave pushes back through the turbo, which isn't exactly the best thing for it. If you have a BOV, the moment you close the throttle, it creates vacuum in the plenum. That vacuum, coupled with the pressure rise in the piping that I just mentioned, lifts the BOV off it's seat and releases that pressure, which allows the turbo to slow down at a more civil rate and on a manual car, keeps it spooled a bit better since the shaft speed doesn't have to go from 80k to zero in a split second.
Sorry about the formatting...answers are in your quote
In reply to Pat :
Right... so getting a cheap BOV since I’m eliminating the stock air box relief would be wise...
In reply to Ashyukun :
or just steal the one out of the stock air box Stocker will work for reasonable boost. Wouldn't expect it to hold more than 13-14'psi for very long though
Gah! Got far, far less less done Wednesday (essentially only got shopping for things done) and today than I wanted to. Today I got the mounts filled with Windo-weld, the fuel pump relay wired up, the new wire for the in tank fuel pump run, the new pump sender installed, and the fuel tank reinstalled back on the truck.
I almost got started on trying to weld in some angles to reinforce the frame on a few spots where it’s rusted through, but ended up deciding that I just don’t have the time right now. If I get enough done there are a few places I want to reinforce, but for now just getting it running and mobile has to be the priority.
I’ll have all tomorrow morning and a bit into the afternoon to work... unfortunately one of the first things I need to do is run to the store for the fuel-injection hose I need and get a 5-gallon can of higher-octane gas since I’ll need it. I think I’m forgetting something, but hopefully I’ll remember it before I leave to shop. :p
Edit: a coupler for the upper rad hose, that’s what the other thing was... Need to join two because of the moving the rad over.
*sigh*
Well, I did make progress over the last two days... but still not enough that I have been able to turn the key and try and start the engine.
The new side engine/trans mounts are installed- and boy did they need to be. The passenger mount was completely shot (and missing the shims it was supposed to have- found a few thick washers to put in their place), and on the trans mount I discovered that they'd not actually installed it right and had put the bolt that was supposed to go through the bushing in the middle of the mount through one of the holes in the rubber instead. Getting it lined up required unhooking the front mount. I didn't replace the front mount- it certainly needed it, but after a bit of fiddling with trying to get the mount out I decided that I would need to pull the whole bracket off and find a press to get the mount out, and I don't have that much time. So, I grabbed the Windo-Weld and filled all the gaps and then some with it, so it should at least behave as stock if not a bit stiffer.
The fuel system is actually pretty much complete- the new sender is in, all the new hose in and clamped up, and the new fuel filter is installed. Only real question is whether the new seal on the new sending unit will hold once the tank is filled- hopefully it will.
Engine oil & trans fluid are drained and new filters for each installed, just haven't refilled either yet.
Heater hoses are hooked up- was able to cut the hose that was on the car and splice it with some hose I had sitting around to make all the connections nicely. Eliminated the heater core bypass- just no real need for it and having the space is more important. Rad (and the hoses to it) is still not installed, will likely be one of the last things I do since it's kind of tight up front.
Air induction system is in- cone filter attached directly to the turbo inlet, and the stock line from the turbo to the TB with the stock pressure relief valve is in. I did get in the piping to install and intercooler, but it's going to be pretty tight to route it and for now I just want the engine running. Vacuum system is mostly in but there are a few connections that need to be made. Planning on repurposing the stock line that runs through the firewall to control the heater bypass to connect up the boost gauge.
I tried to install the new Charger combo electronic/mechanical speed sensor- but it was a no go on both sides of the connection- it looks like I need both the speedo cable from the Charger as well as the gear that goes into the trans- both of them screw on but neither the cable on the car nor the gears on either the LeBaron's nor the Rampage's senders screw on. For now, the LeBaron's electronic sensor is installed- I don't really need a speedo in the car initially, and if I can't get the parts to make the combo one work I can either do without or install one that runs off the electronic sensor.
Alt is back in and the main belt hooked up. Haven't put the PS belt on- don't car enough about it yet. Checked the plug wires, and the connections into the distributor cap actually look really new- so for at least the initial start I'll be keeping the original wires on it. Have a new distributor as well, but for now am keeping the original on there- it should be properly in time, and don't want to have yet another thing to worry about with the initial start...
Picked up a lawn tractor battery from Lowes- hopefully it will work, if not I'll be grabbing a cheapo $50 battery (same cost as the lawn battery but 3x the mass) from Walmart.
Things to do before trying to start it up:
That should do it... but that's still a good few hours worth of work most likely. With some (a lot) of luck, I'll get that done and be able to have a first go at it tonight... otherwise, it will be tomorrow. Good thing the Challenge isn't right around the corner.... oh wait... 
A few pictures (trying to do a bit better at documenting- but I still suck at it...).
How I found the trans mount:
Passenger engine mount (hard to tell, but the bushing is essentially loose and not connected...):
New fuel sending unit: 
Cone air filter: 
The speedo gears have always just snapped on with the ones I've dealt with.
The cable can be a bit fiddly, but threading it onto the sensor before putting it in the car seems to help.
I have seen the different electrical connectors, but they've come with different adapter cables, but I suppose one could change the harness side to match to avoid this in the future.
In reply to Stefan :
Looking more closely at the two options on RockAuto, I think I should have gotten the other one- this is what the gear-side of the one I got looks like:
The other one at least has the right snap-on connection.
I'll need the speedo cable though for either- both have a screw-on connection for the cable, and the one on the Rampage just pushes into the sensor and has nothing other than friction that holds it. The wiring connections look like they should work (and the sensor came with adapters for wiring too).
I'm going to order the other sensor & speedo cable, and start the returns process for the one I've got now.
Somewhat unsurprisingly didn't get as much done last night as I would have liked- though mostly because of an unexpected delay with the radiator.
Vacuum system should be together and hopefully hooked up properly. At a minimum everything is hooked up somewhere and there shouldn't be any lines open to atmosphere. Only real question is whether both nipples on the throttle body are actually vacuum or if one is boost only- but the vacuum diagram for the car says that they're both vacuum, so hopefully that's correct. Grainger valve is installed, and set such that it's not really doing a whole lot at this point (i.e. where the instructions say to start off).
Engine oil & trans fluid are filled back up, and for the time being nothing is leaking. Will see what happens when the pumps are running though, but hopefully there won't be any problems with it.
Getting the radiator installed took a lot longer than planned- because it turns out I'm not likely going to be able to use the LeBaron's radiator after all. All of my test-fitting of the radiator had been done without the alternator in the car- and the alt protrudes out too far forward for the radiator to be able to fit between it and the radiator support. I tried my best to get it to fit, but the only way it looked like it was going to work was to do major surgery on the radiator support- which I'm not too keen on just yet (granted, there's a good chance I'm going to have to do so anyway to run the piping for an intercooler- but one thing at a time).
The Rampage's radiator, of course, fits just fine- and at least for the moment it looks like I've got a good seal on the upper hose that I was worried about. Won't really be able to tell until it's full of coolant and is pressurized- but I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.
At this point, the only things to be done before crossing my fingers and hitting the starter to try and get it to run are:
In non-wrench-turning work, I'll be heading to the Country Clerk's office today to officially get the car transferred- and if I can get it without specifying a date, get a 1-day pass to drive the car to the Clerk's office to get it inspected and registered. I need to have that done Thursday at the latest if I plan to take the Rampage out to get parts at the junkyards on Friday (could do it first thing Friday as well, but would prefer as much time as possible to get parts and work on the car). That's of course being optimistic that a) I can get it started this evening and b) that once it's going it will be drivable...
There’s a smaller diameter alternator used on some of the later cars that might solve that problem, but at this point I suspect trying to repair the bent upper fitting should get you through the challenge.
I like the idea of the muffler pipe expanded to straighten the nipple. It’s pretty lightweight material, so as long as it’s reasonably warm it should return to something closer to round.
I looked at the muffler pipe expanders when I was at HF last- the smallest one they had was solidly larger than the connection on the rad. The upper rad hose has an ID (and thus, the nipple has an OD) of 1", so the ID of the nipple is even smaller. If I could find an expander that might work I'd give it a try- but for now, hopefully I've got the hose clamp tight enough to keep it sealed- will hopefully know for sure tonight.
Its a little late, in the game, but I was able to order a rubber bushing that was designed to go in a radiator hose that reduced it's inner diameter to the correct size for the radiator. If it leaks, maybe you can find something like that and get it quickly shipped.
In reply to eastsidemav :
I've actually already got something like that- one of the upper rad hoses that came with the car had one inside. I don't think it will be necessary- but it's nice to have just in case.
Well, Berkley.
BERKLEY BERKLEY BERKLYING BERKLEY.
So, after spending some time at the County Clerk's office over lunch- it may not be the engine, or wiring, or anything forking else that I can actually fix that may scuttle my getting the Rampage to the Challenge- it's the berkleying government bureaucracy and a Barney Fife-level Sheriff.
Apparently, Kentucky has a 'Classic Car Title' class that is intended for older project vehicles that are typically bought in pieces or at least far from roadworthy- the title class exists for the car to be able to be legally transferred and titled (and the State to get their tax cut...) despite not being able to get the car to the Clerk's office for inspection. That's what the Sheriff marked the transfer form as when he inspected it.
Funny story... you can't get a Speed Title for a classic car title- it will take 2-3 weeks for the state office to process it. AND you can't register and license the car WITHOUT that actual title because you have to surrender it in order for them to start the process to issue a normal title for the vehicle.
All I need to do (hahahahahaha) is get the seller to sign a new Title Application (since the Sheriff checked the 'Classic' box on the one that I already have) and bring it in. This is much easier said than done- since I've never actually met or seen the legal previous owner of the Rampage since I got it with an open title from someone else. For the existing title application I had to fill it all our and sign both and have a notary I know notarize the signatures for me.
*sigh* I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to just fill it all out again and have the same notary notarize it again... hopefully I don't get the same clerk since I had said I wasn't sure I how easily I could get ahold of the seller to get them to sign another form (would be easier if I knew an Indiana notary who could notarize the form and then fax it to me).
For the time being, I have a 1-day pass for Thursday to bring the car to the Clerk's office without a plate to get it inspected and registered... whatever I do, I need to do it by then.
And call the forking Sheriff back and tell him I want a refund on the $15 inspection fee....
Wow, around here you'd just get a 30-day trip permit with proof of insurance and the title or registration.
Yeah, to the best of my knowledge we don't have anything like that.
This would have been a moot point if the Sheriff had either known what he was doing in the first place or told me what was involved with the Classic inspection... had he done so, I would have just said "Forget it- I'll just wait a few more days to transfer it until it's mobile."
So, on the whole, yesterday sucked.... but at least the evening had a happy ending:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/qTOVwYDX5dc
Unfortunately it took MUCH longer than I had hoped to get to that point last night.
I essentially had only two things to do before hooking the battery up and turning the key: pressurize the fuel system and confirm it was holding pressure properly, and fill up the coolant.
Neither went as planned.
After checking all the connections on the fuel system and putting about 4 gallons of premium fuel into the tank, I hooked up the battery (and the booster, since the battery was nearly dead) and jumpered the fuel pump relay- and after the pump ran for a few seconds noticed fuel coming out from around several of the injectors. So, it was off to the parts store to pick up new O-rings for the injectors and then pulling off the fuel rail and replacing said O-rings. Honestly, it was an annoying delay but something that I had considered doing anyway- so it wasn't a huge surprise, just an annoyance. Got everything put back together and checked over and pressurized the system again- and this time didn't have any leaks.
The cooling system was similarly annoying. I had gotten everything buttoned up the previous day and had looked up how to fill the system in the manual- and promptly was completely unable to get the bleed plug out from the top of the thermostat. It's a large hex-driven plug, but it just would not budge- and in the process I ended up rounding off some of the edges of the drive so decided to give up on it and just started filling the system up without removing it and realizing that I'd have to make sure and top it off. However after putting in about half the water needed water started just pouring out from under the thermostat cover/neck gasket. So I had to pull the thermostat cover off and found that the thermostat hadn't stayed lined up properly when I had put it in (not surprising given the design). So I tracked down some appropriate RTV and used it to hold the thermostat and gasket in place when I re-installed it and was finally able to fill up the cooling system.
Ironically, I wasn't really trying to start it up when it first fired over- I'd just planned on turning it over a few times to try and get some oil circulating and had unhooked the fuel pump relay. But when I hit the starter and the engine spun a few times what pressure was left in the fuel system was enough for the engine to fire over, run for a second, and then shut off. So I figured, what the heck- and plugged the pump relay back in and tried it again. It took a few tries and giving it a bit of gas pedal when starting it- but it eventually caught for real and ran quite happily.
So, for the time being I'm pretty convinced that I've got the wiring correct and that I should be able to solder the harness together, but I want to run the engine for a little bit more with it into boost and confirm everything is working right (I didn't have the boost gauge hooked up yesterday and thus didn't want to give it much throttle without being able to monitor what it was doing).
So this evening's tasks (with the aim of being able to drive it to the County Clerk tomorrow to have it inspected and registered...) are:
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