1990 Troyer Modified Hillclimber

In reply to KevinGale :

Thank you! I hope the same. I have quite a few questions for you, but I just joined the forum so I can't private message you.

In reply to Speedy_Fitz :

You are welcome to just post the questions here unless it gets really long then we might want to take it offline.  Also it may help you in other ways. There are more that a few people who read here that know a lot more than I do about many things.  It's not like I am posting much right now. It's the off season and the car will probably just sit on the lift until spring.  

KevinGale said:

In reply to Speedy_Fitz :

You are welcome to just post the questions here unless it gets really long then we might want to take it offline.  Also it may help you in other ways. There are more that a few people who read here that know a lot more than I do about many things.  It's not like I am posting much right now. It's the off season and the car will probably just sit on the lift until spring.  

And can I add my 2cents?

Some off us would also like to know a bit more, but did not know we wanted to know more, until someone else asked that specific question. 

Kevin, long time reader - finally joined forum so I can post some questions.

Been thinking about a modified for years to replace my C5 Corvette in HPDE. Street cars are expensive to maintain and expensive to repair. And not nearly as safe as purpose built track car. I thought a Troyer mod with a pump gas sbc or LS would be fun and less expensive to maintain. And really safe. 

Do you know the differences in Troyer chassis? TA1, TA2, TA3, etc. Or/and what year did the 'modern' chassis start? Are some less offset than others? Or what not to buy because parts are obsolete?

When I see them for sale.. some just have year of chassis when new, some have been updated to TA2 (etc). Not ready to buy yet, just been watching what is out there.

In reply to Speedy_Fitz :

Do you have any info on differences in Troyer chassis?

I do remember hearing that the deaths in mid 80's- early 90's they thought it was the chassis's because they were too stiff... no crumple zones etc. Not sure if they changed the chassis much or using Hans, better seats etc improved the saftey?

I’m not really up on the differences between the Troyer chassis. For what you want to do I doubt it will make much difference. In the past I’ve said that if I was going to do this again I would avoid chassis earlier than the late 90’s.  That was because at that point it was possible to still order body panels and nerf bars for those chassis but not for anything earlier than that. That is probably still true but the year has likely moved. It might be 2000’s now for example.  The cars in the early 90’s and before also had straight bars going from the top of the firewall to the front clip.  Those were too stiff and didn’t crumple well enough. The newer cars all have a bend in those bars.  The newer cars also have extra protection around the driver.

There is a facebook group for Northeast Asphalt Modifieds  (link below)   I suspect you might be able to ask there about chassis differences.  The group is more about history and sharing old photos but it is bound to be full of people who know a lot about this stuff and who would love to share.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/134884933387143

Another group “TOUR TYPE MODIFIED CARS & PARTS FOR SALE”  might also help as it often has cars for sale

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1406721499561306

And I'm also in the Thompson Speedway Racing Flea Market group. There are often cars and parts for sale there and you might be able to ask the sellers a few questions.  

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thompsonspeedwayfleamarket

If you find out anything that steers you one way or another please post it here. I'd like to know. 

In reply to KevinGale :

Ok thank you for info. If I find out anything I will share it on here.

I wanted it for HPDE but it may not be ideal with some of the clubs I run with. I contacted a few about running open wheeled car.. one said no problem, two will not give me a straight answer and one was "the track does not allow open wheel, tires exposed, with closed wheel, tires not exposed". So thinking now maybe a Super Late Model which is somewhat similar with less tire and full body. Or perimeter frame late model like an ACT tour car.

Really would like to run a DOT tire like a R888.. but 15" wheel really limit things. Ever seem a 18" diameter wide 5 wheel? lol Or even 5x5 hub 18".

Where are you going for chassis work since Rusty passed?

zrtman said:

In reply to KevinGale :

Ok thank you for info. If I find out anything I will share it on here.

I wanted it for HPDE but it may not be ideal with some of the clubs I run with. I contacted a few about running open wheeled car.. one said no problem, two will not give me a straight answer and one was "the track does not allow open wheel, tires exposed, with closed wheel, tires not exposed". So thinking now maybe a Super Late Model which is somewhat similar with less tire and full body. Or perimeter frame late model like an ACT tour car.

Really would like to run a DOT tire like a R888.. but 15" wheel really limit things. Ever seem a 18" diameter wide 5 wheel? lol Or even 5x5 hub 18".

Where are you going for chassis work since Rusty passed?

I haven't tried to run my car at anything but hillclimbs. I have however had more than a few people say that it probably wouldn't be allowed by various clubs.  The issue always seemed revolve around it being open wheel. If it had a body that enclosed the wheels they said it probably wouldn't be a problem.   So this is an issue.

I haven't had to have any chassis work done since Rusty passed.  I'm not really sure what I will do.  Certainly there are other places that will put a clip on a Troyer.  I mean the guys that circle track race them have to have someone who does it.  So I would probably ask around.  I think Northeast Race Cars will do clips https://www.nerace.com/.

I might also opt to get a new chassis.  Just buy a new roller and transfer everything over.  We'll see.  

Having a nice quiet off season. The car has just been sitting up on the lift so I can park under it.  It's another nice benefit of the lift I hadn't really planned on. With it all the way up I can park another car under it. 

But last weekend we did have our annual NEHA rules meeting and awards.    Pretty happy to get these.

This FL class image is taken at Burke at check point 1.  The car is very light here with the wheels almost off the ground.  We do see some cars get air here if you hit it fast enough.  The problem is the road turns so if you hit it too fast then you have air right when need to turn!

First race (Philo) is coming up this weekend.  I need to stop working the the new electric bikes and do a couple things to the car. 

Fortunately it doesn't need much.  I need to fill up the cooling system with water and swap out new gears for Philo.  I already washed the seat cover that one of my cats decided to puke on and I fixed the jack that was broken.  So I've made some progress.  I also dewinterized the motorhome so it's at least ready.

In reply to KevinGale :

Glad to see you ready to rock another season. Looking forward to pics of the first race. Wait a minute. Not pics, in car video!

In reply to NY Nick :

I'll just repost this video and change the date.  It all looks the same!  :-)

Personally I like watching the launch videos more.  Maybe I should have taken up drag racing.

As someone who grew up with modifieds at Riverhead Raceway, this brings back fond memories. I bet it's a thrill on the hill.

KG awesome in car footage!!!!!  What MPH's are we looking at?

J.A. Ackley said:

As someone who grew up with modifieds at Riverhead Raceway, this brings back fond memories. I bet it's a thrill on the hill.

It's like riding a bull. It wants to throw me off and stomp on me.  But it's a thrill when I make it to the top without getting thrown off.  :-)

759NRNG said:

KG awesome in car footage!!!!!  What MPH's are we looking at?

Not very high. Philo narrow and twisty.    I don't think the highest speed I hit anywhere is over 100 mph.   I'd guess 90 something peak in a couple places.   At the rock turn you get down to just about a walking speed. Or at least that is what it feels like.

Back from Mt Philo,

We had great weather. Dry and quite warm on Sunday.    We had all kinds of timing issues on Saturday morning and I ended up working at Finish until lunch. After lunch I still got a few runs in.  The car was feeling great.  I was pitted next to Luke and Paul in the Chicken I and Chicken II.  The two Chickens were both faster than me which didn't surprise me.

Sunday morning Paul had a major failure in the Chicken II.  He broke a rear axle off the line on the first run.  That took him out for the day although he later made one run where he had front wheel drive only.  It was a slow run (for a Chicken anyway) and Paul said it was not a fun experience and not worth repeating.

Luke was going good in the Chicken I and some other years I might have tried to catch him.  

I made three runs before lunch and got down to a 1:09  which is about 5 seconds off my personal best.  But I just had no desire to chase Luke of even drive the car in the afternoon and I sat it out.   Luke won the event. (Congrats Luke!) and I finished second.

No in car video.  I did put the GoPro in on the third run on Sunday but the car slipped out of gear just after the start.  (Pretty sure it was driver error) And since that destroying the time for that run I just cruised slowly to the top.   Michelle Wood did get this short vid of the car launching.

Been out lately????

In reply to 759NRNG :

No I've been kind of putting this off.    After Philo this year I decided I'm retiring from racing and I'm going to be selling the car.   There are a few NEHA people who are at least somewhat interested but no bites yet.

Next you will want to know why.  :-)  Mostly it just hasn't been as fun for a while and I'm ready to do other things.  Racing of course requires a lot of time and money.  The time is the biggest factor.  You have to get at least some enjoyment out of working on and racing the car since it just consumes so many hours.  For me recently it hit a tipping point where I was just doing the minimum and doing any more than that felt like work.  It wasn't a sudden thing.  It really started in 2020.

When we didn't have a 2020 season I found that I didn't actually miss racing or working on the car.  I was getting far more enjoyment out of working on our bicycles and riding them.  When the 2021 season rolled around I wasn't particularly motivated.  However I realized after the first event that I had a really good chance at winning King of the Hill for the third time.  That was enough to push me through 2021. 2022 came around and I entered the first event (Philo) but my heart wasn't really in it.  At the event Darrell O'Brien approached me wanting advice on buying a modified for hillclimbing.  On the ride home I decided that what I really should do is sell him my car.    I thought about it for a while and talked about it with my wife (Kelly) and it just seemed like a good thing.

I offered to sell the car to Darrell.  Shortly after that Darrell ran into some health issues and decided that buying a race car wasn't a good idea.   But once I had decided to retire from racing that was it for me.  So I didn't enter the car at the Mt Ascutney, Mt Okemo or Mt Burke events we have already had this year.    The car is going to sit until someone buys it.   I'd love to sell it to some NEHA person.  Paul Dudley has expressed some interest.  Justin Taylor has as well.

So I think this build thread is coming to an end.  

I should also add that this doesn't immediately mean I'm not going to the events.   I went to Ascutney, Okemo and Burke and worked.  I'm currently committing to make every event this year and next year.   At that point I will have made it to 30 years without missing a NEHA event.   That seems like a nice number.  I'm currently the president of KSCC (one of the three clubs that makes up NEHA) so I'm certainly not getting less involved anytime soon.  I have however been warning people that after next year I am no longer planning on making it to every event.  That will probably force some timing and scoring changes since I bring that laptop to every event and it is running software I wrote and maintain.   NEHA will probably change over to the new system that is being used at Ascutney but that is still a bit up in the air.

Kevin

I understand where you are coming from and I want to wish you the best going forward. You have a great thread here and you have done a great job at your chosen racing path for years. Thank you for taking me (and so many others) along for the ride in this thread. I hope that you sell the car to another passionate racer and they enjoy it as much as you did. I wish you good luck in whatever things you do next. I hope that you are still around here on occasion.

Thanks

Nick

In reply to NY Nick :

Thanks,   I just edited my post to add that I'm not immediately going away.   At least until the end of next year I plan to be at every NEHA event.  NEHA is a family and I'm sure I will be showing up at events to visit family for many years to come.

Woof wasn't expecting this , have thoroughly enjoyed this experience thank you so very much!!!

Thanks for entertaining me with your build. Your build was one of cars that got me to start reading the GRM forums after being a subscriber for 30 years. 

Greetings folks,

I'm the proud new owner of Kevin's car.   

With the rich history of the car detailed here, it feels like it would be a sin to not continue the car's journey on this thread.

I am not the racer nor mechanic that Kevin is and I am not under the illusion I will ever compete with his times.  My goals for the next few years:

1. Don't wreck the car
2. Tinker with the car and learn
3. Don't wreck the car
4. Make it to the top and learn while doing so
5. Don't wreck the car
6. Have fun

The first thing we need to do with the car is relocate the seat.  We have four of us who want to at least play in the car (all women, by the way) and three of us are taller and personally I'm quite a bit larger than Kevin in a slightly unhealthy direction.  There wasn't a chance that any of the three of us would fit in the car with the seat where it was, so this bar has to go:

And we're going to relocate the ignition to give us a little more room around the legs, though we haven't figured out where to put it yet:

And indirectly related to the car, we need to fix the winch on the trailer, it seems weather has done a job on the wiring:

I hope you all don't feel I'm hijacking Kevin's thread.  I do not have the knowledge Kevin does, I'm more likely to ask questions than be able to answer any, but it feels it's the right thing to do to continue the car's story here.

Victoria "Tori" Berger

edit: Next time I'll make the pictures a little smaller :)