1991 Mustang Rallycross Car

$2k may be optimistic as-is

In reply to bluej:

Did I make that E36 M3ty of a purchase then? That would mean that by getting this running properly, I've added less than $100 of value

its not worth it to sell it then just keep it but yeah entry costs and towing fuel money would go well towards stage rally but how long do you want to save up for and do you want have to zero seat time in the mean time. Its kind of a E36 M3ty situation. I feel your pain man...

In reply to fidelity101:

Don't we all

Projecting out, if I saved everything budgeted for RallyCross starting NOW, and sold my company stock in August when that option becomes available, I could pick up a Group 2 car when it pops up, and have enough to run 2-3 Stage Rallys next year...

There is a chance you've ruined the car for anything but rallycross. It might well be a $2k rallycross car, but finding a buyer might be hard. The good news is that it's probably at the bottom of the depreciation curve!
Look into a rally school. The last time I ran the numbers you were paying about the same for a two day class that you would spend on towing and entry and all that jazz for a stage rally and getting about the same seat time. You're also doing it in someone else's car on someone else's tires burning someone else's fuel.

NONACK wrote: In reply to bluej: Did I make that E36 M3ty of a purchase then? That would mean that by getting this running properly, I've added less than $100 of value

well, you've got it running better, but the other mods for rallyx have probably hurt the sale-ability to anyone other than someone looking for a rwd rallyx monster. If you're really sure you're done with it, and the goal is max $$ return, you may have better luck parting it. Heck, who knows. Maybe with some junkyard work you can re/undo some of the body mods to bring it back in line to be more of a stripped asphalt racer.

sucks that it hasn't been working out the way you hoped. have you contacted Adam to see if there are going to be any other venues besides Frostburg? I know I heard something about still exploring other options back around the first event, but that may be way out of date.

you're welcome to co-drive the turbo eta e30 in June, especially if you can bring some real gravel tires. would save you the tow.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Very little has changed from the CP setup it had before- it is springs (included), bars (included), tires (included), and a hatch (included!) away from being a better CP car than it was when I bought it.

I like the idea of rally school, but the cost aspect is the killer. I think I'd rather spend the same money on the adventure of a real stage rally- even if it's a worse idea, it'll make a better story.

In reply to bluej:

Not like I hoped? The car is EVERYTHING I thought it would be, and more

BUT, what I didnt expect is that, even with a completely insane, terrifying car, RallyCross still doesn't excite me enough to be worth the time and money, not when there's another goal ahead. I have fun for what little drive time there is, but with the towing time and cost, things don't add up, and at the end of the day, I'm left feeling like I wasted my time. This is the same thing that happened to me with autocross, I tried to correct it by scaring myself with an F125, but in the end, it wasn't exciting enough to be worth it.

ahh, ok. I can understand that.

I guess it's not surprising for a guy who has a long commute on a sport bike every day.

In reply to bluej:

2 hours a day of fending off wheelies will do that to a person

If rallycross were all I felt the need to compete in, this would be a no-brainer: I'd complete the vision, with a giant berkeleying wing, fender flares, light bar, paint job, etc. I may still do that... But with Stage Rally as an eventual goal, I can't help but feel that I'm wasting my time.

And if Stage Rally doesn't keep me interested? Well, then I guess it'll be time to get a race bike and ship it to the Isle of Mann

That's the other reason I suggest a rally school. Find one that will have you running real speed on real roads. Figure out if it scares the E36 M3 out of you or not. Check the math, I do think cost wise it will cost the same for a school as a rally. The point being that you can do the school without putting all of the money and time into the car and safety equipment first. If you run the school and it bores the pants off you, then you will have saved money. If you run the school and it's the best berkeleying thing you've ever done, then it was probably money well spent too.
Or spend the money and get on stage. Have you looked into rallymoto? Somehow that sounds like something you'd like. I'd crew for you in a heartbeat.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Looks like 1 day of rally school costs roughly the same (maybe a bit less) as a full Stage Rally IF the rally were nearby, minimizing towing cost; 2 day schools are more expensive. I'm sure I'll think it's the best thing ever, that's how every new motorsport is... for a little while. Rallymoto is a possibility, but I know my skillset: I'm MUCH more naturally talented on 4 wheels than 2, so while it would be a blast, I'd also most likely have more offs, and the resulting medical expenses aren't very appealing.

Thanks for the advice, maybe I'll make you regret that offer to crew some day

Magnum Opus is only 25 minutes from my cottage in Michigan. I'm dragging the kids out there this summer. It's a long way from you, but any extra money you spend on gas you save by sleeping in the spare bedroom. There is still time to find a bike and sign up.
http://www.magnumopusrally.com

Here is another thing, why don't you use the mustang for stage rally. Add a few safety items, some fender flares and use it. You may have to put a stockish engine in it, but it's not hard or expensive to do. I don't know how it is south of the border, but up here, the 2WD class is less crowded, and nicely competitive.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Actually, now you've given me an idea: Run rallymoto to get my license/learn the ins and outs of stage rally, then when I get fed up again, buy a rallycar.

In reply to fanfoy:

I have caged cars before- my opinion now is that it makes a lot more sense to buy a car already prepped and approved for what you want to do with it. My garage is not outfitted to do that (I can't even weld in there for fear of fire).

Can you get coefficient points by running rallymoto?

A Gr5 Mustang just sold on Special Stage, advertised price was $5500.

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?62994-Rally-Mustang-5500

You can be on stage in five weeks for less than $2k all in (not including travel expenses and assuming that there are still open entries) if you want to rallymoto on a $1000 bike. I'm sure you could find one. You'd have fun. I'd cook you dinner. How could this plan possibly fail?

NONACK wrote: So... I'm thinking about selling this and keeping the funds on hand while I wait for an appropriate Group 2 car to pop up for sale. Tell me why I should or shouldn't?

I hate to see you not come to the events, because I always enjoy competing against you; but I have to say: you should get rid of it. Because you're like me: you want to win. And you're not going to win in that car without massive changes to the car, IMO.

You jumped into my car having NEVER driven it before, and you beat me in it by a decent margin after I had a full season in it. So I know you can jump into any car and drive it to the limit. With the Mustang you're running times more or less the same as me, but with a 10:1 ratio on cones. Even if you cut your cones by 75%, you still lose to both me and Nick. I just don't think you can drive it much faster without major changes to the car. And both Nick and I will be making our cars faster in the next year. And that's just local competition. How much faster can you make the Mustang? I can see some incremenal things, but nothing significant enough to make you much faster than us (minus cones). More power won't help, and there's only so much you can do with the suspension and chassis that isn't already done, and you cna't do much about the poor weight balance. And no matter what you do, it's not going to handle like an e30 or Miata or your MR2 did. You'll have to hope you can drive it just as fast, but very nearly clean.

So I say, if you don't just want to do rallycross for the fun of it, then ditch the car. Find a group 2 car that is street legal (it will have to be anyhow if you plan to stage rally), and then you can drive it to events if you want to rallycross it until you're ready for stage, or whatever. I get almost 30mpg driving my car to events.

Other option if you DO by some chance want to keep rallycrossing and have a good shot at winning locally and at regionals now: Sell the Mustang for what you can get for it. Take the money, get over your (unreasonable?) disdain for e30s, and go find a beat-up e30 325i, or even a late 318, or a beat up e36 even. Or a first-gen MR2. They can be found for under $2k if you don't care about some rust or good appearance (which I'm pretty sure you don't, lol). whatever. Run in stock class. You'll be plenty fast - you've seen how quick the boys are in their E36 M3ty ETA. Or run in Prepared. You know you're fast in an e30 having driven mine. It's not exactly the most unique rallycross car, but at least it's not a blue subaru, lol.

The Mustang was a cool idea, and admittedly "on paper" it had me and Nick pretty worried initially when we first saw it. But once we saw it on course for the first time at the test&tune, driven by someone we KNOW is a good driver (you), I gotta say honestly that I never worried about losing an event to you. The only way you'd be able to run clean enough to be close is by slowing way down. And then your power edge is lost and your times would be slower. Whereas when you had the MR2, I always assumed you would be faster than me (until the car broke). RWD rallycross is, for the most part, ruled by light, well-balanced cars nationally. Maybe if you set up that car from scratch for the specific purpose of rallycross, it would be fast. YOu can add a ton of aero, fender flares, etc etc. And maybe it will be fast. And maybe it will be fast on certain surfaces. But if you ran this season in it you'd be looking at finishing in 4th at most events behind me, nick, and Josh S. And remember, we are in (respectively) a 150hp e30 with street springs, a heavy-ass e28, and an ETA with a turbo and low redline. Brianne Corn in a BR-Z, we are not. All of our cars could get substantially faster with more investment in power, weight reduction, and coilovers.

And you'd hate that. And we'd hate not having you being a serious competitor like you were in the MR2. Hell, you were closer to us in the Celica than you are in the Mustang.

We know you're a good driver. Go get a car that will do what you want it to do.

But whatever you do, stay RWD. Because there I drive too boring, and the world needs someone who can be sideways in every turn, like you :D

Another thought: You always want to drive balls-out. Get a lower-powered car so you can. You can't drive the Mustang the way you like to drive (and actually be fast/clean). But you can drive any number of lower-powered cars that way...pedal to the floor....and still run fairly clean.

EDIT: Wasn't there a logbooked e30 up for sale on special stage recently? One that finished top-15 at Sandblast (and it was an M42 car like mine).

^^btw, hope that doesn't come off as me being a dick. I'm just speaking as someone who has run against you, with you driving 4-5 different cars, and has seen you drive in person, and seen the Mustang drive in person. We've always known you can drive. You just need a car that is the right car, and a car that doesn't break down all the time ;)

In any case, I'll see you on the stages someday regarless. Only difference is that my rallycross car will eventually be the stage rally car, with a few more years of money and time invested. It won't win in open 2WD by any means, or even be competitive, but it will be fun

Now I'm just gonna whore:

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/4465154362.html

$800 with a manual tranny. Find a junkyard hood and front bumper, and there you go. The hood on mine lookd exactly the same when I bought it, lol.

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/4461819291.html

$1500 with LSD

Or my personal favorite that I'd buy if I had room for another car

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/4459016176.html

In reply to EvanB:

Yes. And I hate Mustangs

In reply to mazdeuce:

Stahp. You've done enough, I'm already considering trading my Buell for a WR250 and reading the rulebook...

In reply to irish44j:

I overestimated my driving ability when I built the Mustang: I never thought it would be as fast as your e30, but I thought I could drive it well enough to make up the deficit. With a buttload more effort, maybe I could, but I'm not feeling like this is an effective use of my time- I don't really think rallycross as a whole is either, but if I'm doing it I might as well be really competing. I maintain that I AM NOT buying or prepping another car for this, close the craigslist tab

I'll stop after this. Maybe. Probably not. Anyway, this is the rallymoto FAQ. They say you can prep a bike for less than $50. You do need good proper boots and a back protector, but..... http://www.nasarallysport.com/main/RallyMoto%20Faq
If you can't tell, I really want to do this. I'm going to Magnum Opus to check out the cars, but mostly to figure out if I can do rallymoto and still stay married.

EvanB wrote: Can you get coefficient points by running rallymoto? A Gr5 Mustang just sold on Special Stage, advertised price was $5500. http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?62994-Rally-Mustang-5500

You gotta start in Group 2. Which is why my friend who did a B6T swap into his RX-7 had to take the turbo off, leaving him with a naturally aspirated super low compression 1.6...

But if you have coefficient points (I think that is what they are called) you can start at group 5/turbo. Hence my interest in entering rally moto with my xt600.

It looks like you can get through the first three rally schools (the ones before a rally that you must attend, not like rally school) on a bike and have it apply to cars. I think you'd have to ask someone if that would gain you what you need to jump to G5. I can't find it in the rules.

Unleashing Chris on a stage rally course with a high-powered turbo car could be bad news for local trees and wildlife, lol...