1997 Saturn SL2 - Winter cruiser and potential (slow) future challenge project

This is the latest '90s economy car in the BlueInGreen stable.

~150k miles on the clock and the previous owner dropped in a new (not junkyard) engine about 40k miles ago.

So I brought home this dual cam Saturn in (mostly) good working condition for less than half a challenge budget.

Why the good deal? Well, first of all it turns out no one wanted to buy this car because no one knows how to drive real transmission so the seller had lowered the price. And the interior is less than pristine...

Headliners are for sissies anyway.

It wouldn't be a winter beater without gratuitous stickers.

I, perhaps foolishly, brought it home with an undiagnosed issue. It loses power when the engine gets warm. It's still drivable but it definitely doesn't accelerate like it should.

Ok, let's do a tune-up and see what happens.

I love how simple these cars are to work on.

New coolant temp sensor, 02 sensor, and fuel filter... no change. Time to move on to other diagnostic strategies. It's hard to find time to figure this out because the issue doesn't seem to happen until after about 20 minutes of driving.

The power loss may be associated with ECM not being synced with the new engine. After replacing an engine, the crank position sensor has to be re-learned by the ECM. I'm not sure how much this effects performance.

Unfortunately the re-learn procedure is not a DIY unless you have access to a Tech II tool. If you are ever in the Ann Arbor area 9-5 weekdays, I could reflash the ECM no charge. The other option is to take it to a GM dealer.

A few other things to check...

The intake air temperature sensor (IAT) is the same part number as the ECTS sensor. Some people swap the sensors when the ECTS goes bad. It fixes one problem but causes another problem. The IAT is located at the intake snorkel in the air box. A bad IAT may fool the ECU into pulling the ignition timing back.

The coil packs need to be grounded really well to the transmission. Sometimes pulling the coil pack and scraping the crud off the transmission makes a big difference.

Good luck!

In reply to fujioko:

Thanks, I'll keep all that in mind.

So I could swap the IAT sensor with the old (presumably good) ECTS that I replaced to see if it makes a difference?

Edit: I thought I kept the sensor I pulled out but it seems it got tossed. See, this is why you never throw anything away

Was the old ECTS plastic or brass?.. I guess it really doesn't matter now, but it will give you an idea if the previous owner had any knowledge of the subtle Saturn quirks. Plastic ECTS are know to be problematic.

Anyway, Saturn ignition systems employ witchcraft of sorts and are sensitive in unusual ways. For instance they rely on standard copper core spark plugs and the better platinum or iridium plugs upset the balance. Its deep down the rabbit hole stuff. Over at the Saturn camp they get upset if you mention aftermarket wires or platinum plugs. Apparently a lot of problems can be linked to the ignition.

Another thing to try..

Google the procedure for "plug chop". Its a technique I use on motorcycles when tuning carburetors. Anyway you may be able to get a better idea of what is going on in the combustion chamber buy running the engine hard, cut the ignition pull over and pull a plug. On the DOHC you may want to check if the plugs in cylinder 3 and 4 are the same color.... Fuel/ vacuum issues tend to show up on cylinder 3 and comparing it to cylinder 4 is a cool cheat.

The ECTS I replaced was brass. I pulled out the air intake sensor after I got home today. That one was plastic and a bit grimy. I cleaned it off but didn't have time to test drive so I don't know if it made any difference.

...for the record, I am 99% sure I didn't throw out the ECTS I pulled. I think I left it sitting out somewhere and someone else (a female person) threw it away. Granted, it didn't exactly look like something important.

I should look at the plugs again. I've heard about that quirk but when I pulled them out to make sure they were in good shape and gapped right it didn't occur to me to see if I could tell what kind they were.

At this point the car is getting me to and from work no problem so I'm not exactly scrambling to find a fix. It's nice, for once, to be able to take my time trying to figure something like this out.

Well... this could have been worse. The coolant light started flashing as I was pulling onto my street and when I got it in the driveway I noticed some smoke from the front. I opened the hood to be greeted by a small coolant mess. Didn't take long to trace the source to a crack in the radiator.

Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.

I figure I should be keeping track of this stuff since it might be a challenge car next year. Here's a "real life" budget.

1997 Saturn P.O.S. $900

Registration and Plate $104

Belt Tensioner $60

Oil/filter change $30

Little sensors that didn't fix anything $24

Fuel filter $20

Radiator, etc. $88

Engine/trans mounts $48

Idler Pulley $20

Total cost so far: $1,294

All the parts I ordered arrived, so to work I went.

Parts order: Radiator, thermostat/housing, radiator cap, engine mounts (3), trans mount, idler pulley.

Last night I pulled the cracked radiator and replaced the engine mounts. This all went relatively smoothly. I didn't get many pictures of the process because it was dark and I had coolant all over myself.

When I pulled the hose off the top of the radiator the coolant drained out of the engine and radiator looking nice, clean, and bright green.

When I removed the bottom hose and thermostat housing the coolant drained clean and... bright orange. It was at this point that I noticed the coolant in the reservoir was also orange.

Hmm...

Hopefully I'll be able to get the new radiator in there tonight and button everything up so I can drive it to work on Wednesday.

Engine mounts: There has been a lot of "NVH" happening. I know it's a '90s GM economy car so that's to be expected but one of the lower mounts looked a little sketchy and, according to the internet, a solid top mount is less failure prone than the not solid one that was on the car. I think I might try to use the old parts to make DIY poly mounts when it starts transforming into a challenge car

Left: old "frowny face" mount = bad. Right: new solid mount = good.

Somethings missing... Lot's of room to work in there. The wire is holding the AC condenser in place.

And here we leave it for the night.

Stay tuned for more...

Saturn motor mounts have a dark history that dates back many years ago in a galaxy far far away.....

In reply to El Cheapo:

Lolz. At least when they do go bad replacing them is an easy job.

BlueInGreen44 wrote: In reply to El Cheapo: Lolz. At least when they do go bad replacing them is an easy job.

That describes almost everything on the car. And most things will go bad.

FWIW, that radiator you are replacing/have replaced... won't last long until the blows the seal at the end tank or cracks it. 100% of the aftermarket replacements are junk.

There is a guy on sixthsphere.com that's making some all-aluminum OEM replacements for a pretty fair price - you may consider jumping on that. Or go the more budget friendly route and mount an all-aluminum Civic or SRT-4 radiator in there for $cheap$ off ebay.

In reply to ProDarwin:

Good to know. Right now it just needs to last the winter.

Last night I got the car put back together. No pics this time... sorry. There wouldn't be much to see anyway.

I took longer than it should have because I was in a hurry and didn't take time to be organized so I spent a lot of time hunting for bolts and going back and forth between the tool box and the driveway. Funny how rushing a job without planning ends up taking longer than it would if I had taken the time to be organized. I would say lesson learned but the truth is I knew that already The only Bad Thing I did was misplace the little bolt that holds the fan housing to the radiator. A few minutes of scrounging later and it was held in place with a random interior fastener from a Porsche 924. That prestige has gotta be worth at least 10hp. How many Saturns are there running around with retrofitted Porsche parts?

Oh, and those sensors that I pulled and thought got thrown away? Not in the garbage, just buried. Yay. We'll see if switching out the old intake temperature sensor makes any difference.

I can already tell that there is a noticeable difference with the new engine mounts. The car is still buzzy but it's not as bad as it was and it's easier to make smooth shifts under acceleration. Woot.

Almost ready for winter. Next I need to get the snow tires switched from the BMW wheels to the Saturn. The local Belle Tire is a good shop so I'll take it there and have them check the alignment as well.

BlueInGreen44 wrote: How many Saturns are there running around with retrofitted Porsche parts?

When I bought our Lemons car, it had Brembos from a Boxster S on it.

Sadly, they added no power. Hope your fastener works better

ProDarwin wrote:

BlueInGreen44 wrote: How many Saturns are there running around with retrofitted Porsche parts?

When I bought our Lemons car, it had Brembos from a Boxster S on it. Sadly, they added no power. Hope your fastener works better

Porsche brakes on a Saturn. Is that... possible? I mean, I guess anything is "possible." Perhaps the better question is if it would be necessary

I dropped the Saturn off at Belle Tire this morning. It's getting the Blizzaks that were on the BMW wheels and an alignment.

Almost ready for winter.

Did you end up replacing the dog bone mounts?

El Cheapo wrote: Did you end up replacing the dog bone mounts?

Yep.

Oh my goodness... how these Blizzaks do whine on certain surfaces. Especially when it's wet. I almost thought something was wrong with the car.

Speaking of Blizzaks. Looks like I got the snow tires on just in time. This was Saturday.

Of course I had to take a drive to see how the Saturn does in the snow. It's pretty capable. And the handbrake... that works too

Still chasing the annoying power loss issue.

When it's bad the symptoms are exactly the same as what happens when I unplug the manifold air pressure sensor.

But... It's definitely temperature related. I can tell when it's about to start happening. A few minutes after the heater starts to blow at full warmness the engine starts bogging when I want more than 1/3 throttle past 2.5k RPM. It happens little bit and then as time goes on the problem gets gradually more dramatic. I've switched out the ECTS and and intake temperature sensor with no change. Bleh. It's not a pressing issue since it doesn't hurt the car's ability to get me to work but it sure does take away from the fun factor.

I should have time this weekend to plug it into a scan tool so I can get a better idea of what might be going on. I just haven't had time to properly address the issue.

Rant over.

There's a clean looking 1992 SC2 on CL locally for cheap. I was briefly tempted. Still am, if I'm honest. I think the early ones are cool.

But... I don't really need two Saturns.

Checked for codes, cleared codes, drove and checked again. Both checks showed:

P0440 Evap control system malfunction

P0404 EGR circuit range / performance

The first check showed both codes twice, active and pending. Second check both codes showed pending.

I'll start by cleaning the EGR. Any other ideas?

Cleaning the EGR should help. When you remove the EGR valve stick a screwdriver in the manifold hole and chip away the carbon. Don't worry about the crud falling into the engine.... Once the manifold is clean, start the engine for a few seconds and all the crap will get blown out the hole.

The EGR pintle can be cleaned with carb cleaner and should move freely.

If the problem persists after reassembly, the trouble could be in the position sensor built into the EGR valve. The sensor is non serviceable and the valve should be replaced.