Hi GRM,
I am Level0 and I really need your assistance in helping me realize my vision for my 2005 Neon SRT4. The car has been sitting for nearly 10 years; I was overseas for 8 and couldn't justify bringing her over during that period. Prior to sitting, I fully built the engine, transmission, and fuel system, and the car put down solid power. It was fun to drive for several years, but the car has been sitting, and I finally have the time and money to bring it back to life, hopefully better than before.
So, while I loved the big turbo FWD experience, I want something different this time around. I want a RWD Neon. I know many consider this a fool's errand, and I should just buy a RWD car and proceed from there. I refuse. I am determined to either succeed or take the Neon to the scrap yard; there is no secondary route. This is not a pristine SRT4. I was a dumb teen, and while I did learn mistakes were made, a lot of mistakes were made. With all of that said, I am really out of my depth. I know I will need to do a lot of work and make many mistakes in this endeavor.
Here is where I need the assistance of the GRM community. I am fighting between two options. 1. Take the built 2.4L engine and run it longitudinally (this strikes me as the "easier" option) OR 2. Swap the 2.4L for either a 4.8 or 5.3 V8 with either a T56 or TR-6060 transmission. I know both options lead me down the path of hacking the firewall and floorpan, slapping in a RWD subframe, as well as many, many other tasks. I have been shopping for front and rear subframes from C5 and C6 Corvettes primarily. I am unsure what to be on the lookout for when it comes to picking the F and R subframes. I see these first decisions as the most daunting and will consider whatever guidance is provided.
I have been lurking on this forum for ~8 months in anticipation of this project, and most of the work the members are doing is remarkable. I know that if there is any community I can turn to in order to turn this concept into reality, GRM is it. Most of you have more wisdom, experience, and skills, which is why I am making this post. I firmly believe I can do this with a ton of assistance to make it a reality; at the very least, it will be my vision, even if it is worse than what the engineers at Dodge cooked up. At the very worst, I gain some skills, experience, and humility as my SRT4 ends up at the scrapyard like most 1990s and 2000s Neons.
Option 3: Move the whole drivetrain to the back, like a Renault 5 turbo. Grab the whole front subframe, lock the steering and start cutting/welding. You'll need another front subframe/uprights/suspension but you can get that from a Neon in the junkyard. It'll cost you the back seat but hey, it'll be super-cool and might actually be the easiest option.
Take a look at the Durocco. The website is gone and the old build diary died with a refresh of this forum a decade ago, but the Internet Archive has your back (somewhat). Just ignore the front engine :)
https://web.archive.org/web/20061007025101/http://www.durocco.com/story%20photos/page1.html
In reply to Keith Tanner :
First off, what a stable of cars you have! A Miata with a V8 sounds like a ton of fun to whip around.
That build thread was a treat to read. I had not considered this as a path forward and while I do think the idea is intriguing, I am not that interested. I really have my heart set on the engine sitting out front.
Thank you for your input! If you have anything else to toss my way I would be happy to entertain it.
I like the idea of using the 2.4 with a Jeep transmission. Not for a rational reason so much as the overall theme.
It does seem a shame to get rid of the engine. It looks like a Jeep is the only option for a RWD transmission. Interesting!
To find a suitable rear subframe (unless you just throw a live axle in the back like a, well, Jeep), you'll want to look for something with a similar track to the Neon. Ideally, a car that uses the same bolt pattern for the wheels - looks like 5x100?. If it comes from a platform with a bunch of different drivetrain options like a Camaro, you may have more luck trying to find upgrades or different final drive ratios for the differential. You may have luck with the Impreza/WRX, a number of those came with 5x100 and I'll bet they're about the right size.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
+1 on this idea. Your transaxle, clutch and axle upgrades are maybe already in place. If not, you get to use well established SRT stuff.
*edit* saw the part where you want the engine in the front of the car. There is a recipe in the inerwebs for RWD 2.4 that includes a Dakota bell housing and a Supra trans. If you can let go of front engine, moving the driveline and suspension to the back would be sweeeet.
In reply to Level0 :
I can't wait to see where this goes!
I wanted to thank everyone for their suggestions. To the disappointment of dozens, I will be ditching the 2.4 and foregoing a mid/rear engine setup. I will, however, try to keep all of the components for a future project. I think a cart build or swap sounds about right.
Due to the feedback I have decided to ditch the C5/C6 F + R subframe idea in favor of a BRZ/86, Impreza, or WRX/STI rear. The differentals worry me, though, I presume I could modify the frame to house a more robust or customizable differential. Am I wrong in thinking that? Prior to sitting, the car had a tick under 500 WHP on pump, so I want to stick in that range. I'd love to throw my 67/68mm turbo on the V8, but easier said than done.
So the loose idea is throw the full rear running gear from one of the above vehicles (diff is undecided), front running gear from probably the same vehicle, and a 4.8L or 5.3L mated to either a T56 or TR6060. It is vanilla, I know, but it feels like a good base to build from. I have missed a ton of details, but how does this look on paper?
I move house shortly, and after settling in and overhauling the garage a little bit, I will begin the revival. Thank you guys so much for the tips and advice. Keep throwing things at me. This will be the most ambitious project I have ever done, and I will need all the help I can get.
That recipe is only "vanilla" if you're just reading posts on the internet instead of actually being in the driver's seat. In real life, it's plenty compelling.
It's relatively easy to modify a subframe to take a different differential - we used GTO or CTS-V diffs in many of our LS-powered Miatas. However, the expensive part is the halfshafts. You can't really make your own (you will break many if you try) so you'll be dealing with someone like The Driveshaft Shop to get some made and that's neither cheap nor easy. They'll get it wrong at least once, assuming they can actually deal with the splines you need. I'd take a good look at the WRX/STi diff options, you may be able to use one of those off-the-shelf which would save you a lot of time and effort. Take a look at final drives, with your proposed drivetrain you'll want one in the 3.3 range if memory serves.
I don't think anyone is going to complain this is yet another LS swapped Neon. I'm not even sure anyone has built such a combo before.
I know I'm late to the party and my opinion is exactly that... an opinion.
Years ago I had a LeSabre. I loved it. I wanted it To be RWD, with a V8. I talked to a lot of people did a lot of planning and in the end realized that it would just be a roadmaster with extra steps.
You've got a neon. You like your neon. If it were me, I'd keep it as Neon as possible.
I'd use the SRT4 engine, turned north-south, a trans from a jeep or something and probably a Subaru rear to keep the bolt pattern the same.
An LS would be more powerful, but at that point it's not really a neon anymore... it's a jellybean shaped camaro.
In reply to AClockworkGarage :
I disagree. I have taken a Camaro and put it inside an MGB. It is very much not an MGB shaped Camaro, the driving experience is very different. Our LS powered Miatas were not smaller Corvettes any more than a Lotus Elise is a Pontiac Vibe - even though they have the same engine. It's the sum of the parts.
In reply to AClockworkGarage :
I have heard Neons referred to as skittles hundreds of times, but I really dig jellybean. It is now the official name of the project moving forward. I can't say I entirely disagree with your point. This project is less about the identity of the Neon and more an experiment in pushing myself and building my skillset. This thread really helped me discover that the option between the 2.4 and a 4.8 was a silly illusion. I loved the turbo 4.8 idea from the jump. I apologize for posing the option when my mind was made up.
I am really interested in the ins and outs of the process. Keith, GoLucky and MadScientistMatt have all contributed to helping turn this from paper and internet to reality. Thank you for your input as well. I am currently in the process of securing a rear subframe, T56 transmission, and fully dressed engine.
This project will really challenge me and I will evolve or die trying. I have never messed with nor considered suspension geometry, I am a novice welder on a good day and fabrication is a whole new game. I want to thank you for again for your input, and I hope that in the future, me and Jellybean will surprise you! If you guys have any advice, tips, tricks feel free to post below or send me a message privately.
I want to say SkinnyG has a build thread on here where he stuck a SBC/TH350 into a Pontiac firefly.
Definitely worth the read.
Given the combination of a turbo V8 and being fairly new to fabrication, I would say your best bet for rear suspension is a solid axle and four link. It's often the simplest formula when you need a suspension that can handle big power.
Hey everyone,
I wanted to hop on with an update. We just closed on our house Monday, and I will be taking a few weeks to move and settle in. Shortly after, I will start gathering components for the build.
Thank you, Clockwork; that thread is a fantastic source for inspiration and really helpful for my visual learning style.
Mad Scientist, thank you as well. I heavily considered a four-link suspension with a solid axle and ultimately arrived at the conclusion that I wanted to try the IRS conversion. It is quite possible that I end up going the four-link route. There are so many sources for swapping, upgrading, and modifying that setup.
UPDATE: I was not prepared for the amount of work the house was going to give me. I apologize.
I have located and purchased a 4.8L LS. I am in process of pulling the engine, transmission from the Neon for mock up. I am having a real issue locating ANY T56 or TR6060 transmissions locally, the 4.8 was also surprisingly hard to find. So, for now I can only mock up the engine which is at least progress. I will post some pictures in the coming days of the removal, mock of engine and the beginning of stripping the car.
If you know anyone with a T56 or TR6060 laying around hit me up.
Any pics? :)
And glad to hear work is progressing.
Where is "locally" for you? If you're just getting rid of the 2.4 I might be interested as a backup for my SRT4.
I've also seen adapters to put a Nissan 350z manual transmission behind an LS, if that helps open up more options.
The T56 and TR6060 transmissions are available, but they aren't cheap even used. The Nissan option Matt mentioned may be a better way to go.
In reply to Level0 : Please visit 06 Cobalt engine swap, front to rear. I am mid engine installing a front wheel drive platform. I firmly believe your original plan with the Turbo 4 in the back is a viable plan! Fiat did it with the X1/9 and later Pontiac with the Fiero and Toyota with the MR2. While I like an LS swap you will have to re engineer the floor tunnel in that car, that is costly and time consuming. If you look at history a mid engine placement with a transverse mount drive lump has been done. The original "super car" 1967 Lamborghini, Miura is the proof of function to the design. Also look up DF Kit Car, Goblin. Technique and method have no brand label! I'd rather see a mid engine Neon SRT4 than another body drop or huge floor pan modded tub! It can ALL be done. You only have to decide HOW YOU will do IT! Message me directly if you desire uncdad@comcast.net
So to fill in, I am in the Colorado Springs area. I will be keeping the 2.4L and 5spd trans for a future build. A couple of buddies and I have been interested in doing a cart for a few years now. Now that I have a motor, transmission, steering, ECU and harness that project is a lot more likely to fall into place. That WILL end up being a rear/mid engine project. The neon is a RWD build and will not deviate off that course.
I have heavily considered the CD00X series transmissions. I will do more research in the coming days. It is very likely I will just buy the transmission, whichever model I buy, new. I will continue to scour the usual sources plus these forums for anything interesting.
In the meantime I will continue with what I have. I will try and take new pictures and post both sets tonight. There is not a ton to see but it'll provide context to the project. The goal is to strip the car on my weekend (Sun - Tue).
In reply to Level0 : I'm cool with that. I'm just hating hearing another mid engine scrap mobile project will not happen. I will not be in my garage until l return from Australia in the spring. So until then I will be watching and living vicariously through your progress. Please post lots of garage updates!
I can't wait to see what you build!
