'87 4000cs quattro Challenge Build

So due to lack of intrest and an overall poorly functioning site, I decided to move my project build thread over to the GR forum. In all honesty I should have started here all along but anyhow...

Ever since I owned an '85 GLI for a short period of time, I always wanted a 4000 quattro. It's basicly the only audi I have ever truley longed for. Like a mk2 jetta with so much more to offer. So I kicked around the idea for years, always finding an excuse not too buy yet another car. But when I started commuting across the rocky mountains every week, my need for a good winter car became a necessity.

Truth is, I've had my eye on this particular 4k for a few years and when my best friends dad finally decided to sell i didn't hesitate. quattro recarro's

Sure it was a mechanic's special, but the 2nd owner is a mechanic and took very good care if it for 15 years. It came with damn near every part that needed replaced along with a freshly rebuilt 5cyl inside and a complete 5k turbo engine like a tantalizing cherry on top of an already good deal.

Picked up the car late one december evening, drove the short distance to my buddies house and we tore into it till 2am that night, fixing all the small stuff like the grill, hood latch cable, antenna, door handles, etc.

here it was that morning

Then we threw the new hood on and I drove it 4 hours home. Car didn't skip a beat and I am amazed at how well EVERYTHING still works bieng a 25yo car. The best part of this deal was all the extras in the backseat and trunk including: -4 new snow tires -2 new door handles -new power antenna -cap, rotor, plugs(one set already installed and one in the box) -timing belt -new cis pump -replacement hood & fender -new water pump -AC dryer -windshield trim lock -window switches (set of 4) -Bentley manual And so much more

I plan to drive it pretty much as is this winter. However, the ultimate goal with this project is to do the swap, go meagasquirt and big boost, then take it to the grassroots challenge. (original post January 2012)

Got tired of the one chrome badge on the car

Also Been piecing together a very grassroots coilover set. Have almost everything needed but those springs are gonna be pretty stiff according to my math, not to mention the rears might be a little short. (they weren't lol)

The point of no return

Instead of making a weld on collar, I opted to file a nice even shoulder out of the weld on the tie rod bracket. this method is not for the faint at heart. It requires patience, attention to detail and a steady file hand. lots of file, then fitment and the tenacity to keep at it till you get a nice tight fit all the way around the sleeve.

Once I was happy with the fit, I installed the new shock and nut, then measured the distance between the nut and shoulder. Then shorten the sleeve too the perfect size, which will allow the nut to snug down on the shock and sleeve at the same time. After that I coated inside the sleeve with anti-seize and assembled the struts.

Thanks to the low rise hats that came with the coilovers, I had to install the stock spring hat in order for the strut bearing to turn. Between the inch I gained there, and the super stiff 7" springs, it only sits a 1/4 inch lower than stock, at the bottom of the adjustment range. Gonna try a different spring top.

(02/18/12) the good: Extreme improvement in cornering, quicker steering response, less body roll, quicker stops, decent ride quality.

the bad: Shock valving is way off with the stiffer spring rate. still not low enough. I'd like to get the rear done before ruling out the cheapo shocks but I have a feeling they just cant keep up with the firm springs. Overall a surprising improvement in handling with nothing more than a spring change and replacement shocks up front.

cant wait to get the rear done

(02/26/12) Since I didn't have a proper size hole saw or a drill press for that matter, I got a couple big washers from a friend and bored them out with a die grinder. Once they were close to the size I needed, I switched to a flapper wheel that just so happened to be the appropriate diameter for the 55mm rear strut tubes. Then the same friend welded them up for me since I don't have a welder. You may or may not be able to see the 1"+ droop from the hat too the top of the 7" spring. But even with that it rides higher than stock at the top of adjustment Here it is a little more than half way down and where it will stay till I get the proper hats installed. Probly still have 2 inches drop left Some Things to consider when going the DIY route on a 4000q coilover install:

-Front strut tube O.D. is 50mm

-Rear strut tube O.D. is 55mm

-6" tall spring is required up front if you want any real drop or adjustment out of the deal

-7" tall rear spring seems suitable for a good range of adjustment

-Rates are 100% personal preference but IMO 500+lb in stock trim is not too stiff for the street. Some may disagree but I was almost swayed to a softer rate thanks to all the internet jargon but I'm glad I stuck it out with the stiffys as I like the way it rides and handles.

(03/17/12) Had an interesting note on my car monday afternoon from another 4k owner. She was pretty stoked to see another tornado red quattro alive and well. Glad I had the opportunity to meet this couple and we have plans to do a little red on red photo shoot soon, I'll post more pics when we do but here's a shot of the '85 next to my '87

So now that there is a photo shoot in the works, I decided to Get my good red fender mounted up finally. special thanks to zec for all his help pulling this thing. In a yard where the cars are packed door-to-door, sitting on 4 flat tires, the front fender isn't the easiest thing to remove but we got it without to much headache.

Since I had the fender off, I decided to cheat the strut on that side and switch my frankenstien spring hats out for the proper ones from A-1 racing. Here is a good reason to buy the strut hats that are discussed in other threads. Almost an inch difference as you can see

With the fender off you can access the strut top fairly easy. Just loosen the axle nut and take the tie rod off, then remove the top nut on the strut and maneuver it out of the inner fender. Another good piece of info for those of you about to dive in on the coilover project, The stock rear bump stop will snap right into those A-1 spring hats once you cut them down in length, take the boot off and flip them upside down like so: Like it was made to go in there!

The coolant leak was getting worse. . . glad the car came with a new replacement so I finally got around to that

Installed the radiator shroud I picked up at the yard

and it's a little lower

still not enough to sweep the concourse at the challenge

Only about an inch left before it'll be on bumpstops up front. Might be looking at sectioning strut tubes soon.

(03/24/12) Took the CS out on track today. Ran great even with numerous stints between 5-6000 rpms. Only complaint was the cheap sigma tires squealing all day long. Suspension was sure footed, just needs a more effective contact patch. Pretty good baseline and only 4-5 second slower lap times than my heavily modified 280z. All in all a good day @ Grand Junction Motor Speedway!

Red Rock Racers! wooWOO

(03/30/12) Broke some traffic laws racing the sunlight to the great sand dunes Wednesday. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . worth it. Not the prettiest A4 wheel but the cheapest Denver had to offer

Heh, i have pictures from the same general area of sand dunes i think.

LOVE this car. It's not doing anything to quell my irrational Audi love.

(04/22/12) A little before & after

Swank Force One wrote: Heh, i have pictures from the same general area of sand dunes i think. LOVE this car. It's not doing anything to quell my irrational Audi love.

lol keela claimed I missed the best light by 20 minutes but I still think we got some cool pics that day. . . we keep shooting for 3 tornado's in one frame but it has yet to happen

2K4Kcsq wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Heh, i have pictures from the same general area of sand dunes i think. LOVE this car. It's not doing anything to quell my irrational Audi love.

lol keela claimed I missed the best light by 20 minutes but I still think we got some cool pics that day. . . we keep shooting for 3 tornado's in one frame but it has yet to happen

I think i was about half an hour too early...

Never a part of the challenge budget, but something that I wanted for Wuste 2012 I loved the look but was never fond of the adapter setup. They eventually ended up on the wifes 200sx and now i am on the hunt for the perfect wheel. . . again. Probly not a challenge priced piece but easily removed when that day comes.

Very cool. I had one for a very short time 9 years ago, and if I'd had the time and $$ to fix the fuel pickup problem and other nagging things, I may have never sold it. The car was just so right. Sigh...

(05/26/12)

A shot of the old adapters, painted calipers and new front rotors. gotta love ebay for challenge builds. Then I went to wuste. . . .

(06/02/12) We hit I-70 at around 11:15 friday. . . . met up with the colorado caravan quickly. I guess a blue mk4 was having cooling issues. I wasnt much help with the bluewater performance guys on the scene taking care of the crippled golf. . . or jetta. . I honestly didn't look that close thru the sea of people, so I pressed on with a few other cars We were making good time, cruizing along till the 5cyl started to hiccup. . . just once at first...then it started stalling, caughing and just generally running bad all around. Finally had to pull off. The group of cars I was with long gone, the rest well behind, and no cell service I started to look the car over. I had been running her pretty hard, 4000 rpm for over an hour and a half but I was keeping my eye on the oil & coolant temp, the car was running great from the day I bought it way back in december up to this point and this was not the first time I ran it hard like this so it was unexpected to say the least. It had all the symptoms of vapor lock, and the fuel pump has been noisy since I took ownership so I started it up and sure enough, the pump sounded worse than ever. The worst part of this realization is the fact that I have a brand new walbro CIS fuel pump sitting in a box of audi parts in my garage that I actually thought about throwing in the trunk for this trip. . . . too bad I didnt remember and there it sat, approximatly 180 miles away from my current, crippled location.

So what to do. . . we let it rest for awhile while I held frozen water bottles next to it for as long as I could stand the 100 degree asphalt in the high desert sun. We tried to press forward while I took it easy. Didnt make it but a few more miles and it literally died on the next off-ramp.

Debating the options at this point, we decided to turn around. I figured the FP sitting in my garage was probly the most suitable replacement within 300 miles of my location. The only town close by was green river utah and I know how hard it can be to find parts for these euro's.

So I ziptied a bottle of ice to the side of the pump, let it rest for a little longer and we turned around. The car ran pretty good for over 80 miles. So good infact I was mad that we turned around, but once we filled up in GR, I switched out the now thawed ice pack for a fresher one and hit the east bound on-ramp, it was running poorly again. It basicly had a top speed of 65 and only 1/8 of the throttle was usable before it started stalling so we had obviously made the right call. I must say this car limped us all the way home , again over 180 miles out one way. It's a testament too the overall greatness of these cars if you ask me.

A pic of my "get er home" bandaid Got home, swapped out the pumps. the replacement was for a rabbit GTI so it wasnt an exact fit but I made it work. Turned back around and left Grand Junction, CO for a second time at around 6:30 pm. . . only 7 hrs after our first departure time... no big deal. Rolled into the palace station around 12:45. . . not bad for a trip with an additional 360 miles added too the odometer.

Got up the next day and found a missing caliper bolt on the passenger side. . . I KNOW those were tight. Might have to go with some blue thread locker when I get home. A trip to home depot cured that little problem (even though the audi dealer i stopped at first couldnt help me) and its been running great ever since and that was only the trip down...

(06/05/12) The trip went great while we were in vegas. Met lots of cool people and had a blast on the drives. My only regret was moving down to my "premier" parking spot for the show. I was parked next to a Lancia in the parking structure and shortly after I left his buddy brought out the urquattro. Never even got to see it in person which bummed me out being the only other B2 that showed up all weekend. We left the palace station around 11:30 headed for home but this wasn't your average road trip. . . About 15 miles north of the outskirts I hear a -THUNK- on the floorpan, assuming it was a rock I press on. Maybe 3 miles later another THUD-THUNK-BANG- then a dragging sound. My wife says there are parts bouncing on the ground behind us, I start to pull over and realize my brake pedal just went to the floor. Now I'm starting to realize what's going on. Sure enough, one look thru the driver side front wheel and all you can see is a shiny rotor. Further inspection reveals the complete caliper minus pads and shims that I drug by the brake line a few hundred yards.

Now If your lookin for a good time, Try searching both shoulders of N I-15 in a hundred+ degree temps for about an hour, only to come up one brake pad and 2 bolts short. All while fellow wuste attendees pass by in newer, air conditioned rides.

I found a couple bolts in my searching (and a 3/8 extension, score!) that were standard but close enough to hold the caliper in place with like 2 threads a piece (not recommended but. . . no choice) and limped it too the nearest autozone with the emergency brake only. In all honesty, without a brake pad in a 1987 quattro, I thought we were effed. The first zone didn't have any pads but amazingly enough the one 3 miles away had a set. I bought all the M10x30 bolts they had (2!) and limped along to the next store. Once there we put the pads on, replaced the bolts and inspected the brake line and caliper, only a little battle scarring, no serious damage. Even The wheel only had a few paint scratches, no galling or minor dents to speak of, still spins true.

I have been pondering what would have happened with stock 14's on there. . . complete wheel lock?? not sure. One thing I am sure of, I'll NEVER EVER use anti-seize on brake bolts again.

We hit the road a second time around 2:30pm, making good time. Car was happy again. Stopped in Saint George UT, for "lunch" and to cool off. Back on the road in 90+ temps and about 40 miles later the little walbro, vw rabbit fuel pump just didnt have anything left. I tried another ice bandaid with no such luck. Tried to get a tow with my full coverage insurance, no luck there either. Thanks Progressive!

Decided to start it up after its little break, it fired and ran, FP louder than ever. Made it to Cedar City where, much to my suprise, an autozone was open after 6pm on a sunday... in utah! lol. They didn't have an Audi pump but they had one for an '83 GTI. . . That'll work!

Replacing the second fuel pump in a weekend was much more pleasant in the cool 80 degree mountain air compared to the first time around. Once back on the road everything Finally went smoothly, I even stopped on I-70 mile marker 1 to snap this final shot of the trip memories. . .

digging this thread. youve got good story telling skills.

car guy folklore at its best....

Sounds like quite an adventure.

I have a friend who used to have one.

His had a motor swap and about 400ish hp. (audi 20v turbo IIRC??)

I think the motor had some trouble, so he pulled it. Then he sold the car and kept the motor.

The motor is now in this.

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He calls it ElQuantimino (quantum syncro station wagon, turned into a pickup)

What site/forum wasn't meeting your needs?

I know us over at the Quattroworld 4k/CGT forum would love to see these posts!!

Nice work on the coil over sleeves!

Thanks for all the kind words guys! when I was proof reading my post transfer I thought the short paragraph about searching for brakepads in the desert heat would be a good "words of wisdom" addition. and I know that quantimino! I believe he bought those wheel adapters from me a few months back over on the MG site. . . that is quite the cool project he has going.

As far as the old site, I was on audiworld for the last year. . . I really liked that site till it started having page loading errors and every posted link would be redirected towards an advertiser page. Not to mention i seemed to get plenty of views but no interaction. . . perhaps if I put the word "Turbo" in the headline i would get more responses. lol

i used to think these cars were so ugly and had no potential...

you single handedly changed every bit of thinking i had about these audis.

Well, very well done.

I think is a very neat project. Also a big fan because the body/ exterior visuals are mostly stock but underneath

we were both very lucky and unlucky throughout that weekend. The time spent there was flawless but both too and from were a nightmare.

Had a new pump - left it at home.

Cought the first brake problem - didn't catch the other

won $100 on the slots - spent it on a second fuel pump

No roadside coverage - Made it to a parts store. . . . that was open. . . and had what I needed.

All in, I'd say we came out ahead

(06/22/12) So I installed a pair of my cheapo speakers in the rear awhile back, thought I would keep the updates coming. It is possible to save the OG speaker pots if you are careful. I just kept applying pressure to the speaker while supporting the plastic pot from underneath. Whenever I heard the glue crack, even slightly, I would work my way around slowly till they finally broke free. The problem I encountered was a simple size difference. I cut the mounting tabs to hold the speaker tight in the factory speaker pots, then got creative with some extra sound-deadening material I had. Cut a 1" wide strip about 12 inches long, folded it lengthwise and stuck half to the ID, and then folded out the other half to fill the gap and help support the speaker. Here is the underside of one installed. Now I have a much better sound while maintaining a factory look inside the car and maintaining a challenge budget.