911 Carrera RallyCross Project

Great to see the car up there for SnoDrift!

Would be even greater to see it running as a 00 car

FYI, I hope you are running swepco or Valvoline VR1 in that car. The vr1 shoudl help reduce oil burn AND leaks...

Dad just sold his 1983 911sc Euro for $33k. not numbers matching anymore (window in the stock block makes that hard.) Concourse version is worth 65k. Numbers are climbing fast though I'm not sure that affects your willingness to beat on your car or not.

engiekev wrote: Great to see the car up there for SnoDrift! Would be even greater to see it running as a 00 car

I agree. Strings need to be pulled LOL

Mad_Ratel wrote: FYI, I hope you are running swepco or Valvoline VR1 in that car. The vr1 shoudl help reduce oil burn AND leaks... Dad just sold his 1983 911sc Euro for $33k. not numbers matching anymore (window in the stock block makes that hard.) Concourse version is worth 65k. Numbers are climbing fast though I'm not sure that affects your willingness to beat on your car or not.

We have Brad Penn 10W40 in there for the winter.

I would say the cost of the transmission parts has affected my willingness to beat on is somewhat. That and my need to find a new challenge. Did start a cage install yesterday ;)

10w40 seems thin but I guess winter. We ran 20w50. No synthetic, you want dino oil with as much zinc and lead as you can get. (bearing life) These motors HATE synth.

I do enjoy your thread so much. It's what dad and I always wanted to do together. (track days) but the fear of wrapping it around a tree, offtrack excursions, or just plain blowing up ANOTHER engine kept us out of doing anything.

Mad_Ratel wrote: 10w40 seems thin but I guess winter. We ran 20w50. No synthetic, you want dino oil with as much zinc and lead as you can get. (bearing life) These motors HATE synth. I do enjoy your thread so much. It's what dad and I always wanted to do together. (track days) but the fear of wrapping it around a tree, offtrack excursions, or just plain blowing up ANOTHER engine kept us out of doing anything.

I asked Tuthill's in UK what they run in their ice driving school cars and this was pretty close to that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2zGYu-l7t0

Well I know what I'm watching during lunch now.

I've heard so much about this car through Josh/Irish44j, it's nice to finally check out your thread! It looks like a very capable car, and I'm glad you're not in the DC region!

95maxrider wrote: I've heard so much about this car through Josh/Irish44j, it's nice to finally check out your thread! It looks like a very capable car, and I'm glad you're not in the DC region!

Ha ha. I used to be ;)

That's right, our little 911 is getting a roll cage. Does this mean we are going racing? Maybe. Motivations for this are three-fold: 1) safety during track days etc. 2) Race car credibility generally. We are showing the car a lot more these days. 3) This six point bolt in cage is SCCA time-trial approved and should allow us to run the Empire Hill Climb later this year!

We picked it up from a chap in Cincinnati who was selling for "Local pickup only" as a few of the bolt on sleeves had been welded "for additional safety" which rendered it less easy to ship.

Fortunately that allowed us to win the auction for a great price as it really narrowed the market for it and, although we were willing to drive down to Cincinnati for it a good friend of the shop, Nick Clute very kindly volunteered to pick it up for us on his way back from Florida. SWEET!

We would prefer a white cage and will probably paint it before final installation but first we have to make sure it fits and that we can still install two seats with harnesses as only the driver's side harness bar is looped for extra clearance. So first thing was to remove the seat and harness bar from the car.

The rear hoop was a bugger to muscle into place unassisted but we managed and immediately a problem presented itself: we had assumed that the bolt holes in each sleeve and bar were factory drilled thus making the sleeve locations universal. WRONG. Every sleeve must have been drilled in the car as none of the holes would match up. So we wrestled the rear hoop back out and started to put this jigsaw puzzle of a cage back together in a way that rendered it somewhat 911 shaped. Eventually we had it figured out and marked everything so it could be reassembled the same way in the car. PHEW what a job.

Three hours later the cage was fully assembled in the car but it was tight and even though all the bolts were loose it had very little flexibility. It seems it is going to mount exactly where it is now and nowhere else.

Again, a few issues presented themselves; non of which are insurmountable. Firstly, the sun visors are clearly never going to work with this cage in place. I guess they are coming out.

And secondly, the door pockets line up perfectly with the door bars. Either they go or the door bars go.

I think we'll source some RS door cards from RENNLINE to tidy this issue up.

So next job is putting the seats and harnesses back in to see if they still work then adjusting the feet locations, if we can and marking bolt holes. Then taking it all back out, drilling holes (gulp), painting it and finally throwing it back in. Stay tuned, it's about to get interesting.

We never thought this project would need a "part #2" when we started it. Guess what? There's going to be a "Part #3" as well!

When we left Part #1 we had the cage fully assembled in the car and had noted a few things to tweak and/or remove. Next we test fitted the seats to see how they would work with the car, with particular interest in how we might mount the shoulder belts since we lost the harness bar. Before we did that we took the covers off to give them a wash. Three years of RallyCrossing had left them less than pristine.

The seats still fit but we are a little flummoxed by the height of the cage's harness bars as they seem too low. The rules say something like 10-20 degrees from horizontal and a short as possible but we think this is out of that range. Maybe we attach to the OE rear seat belt mounts which are 3 feet away and offset to the outside about six inches. More on that in Part #3.

Moving on, we next removed the door bars and door pockets so we could at least close the doors.

And then started to work on the fitment issues, the main one of which was that the feet didn't want to sit on the wheel wells like they are supposed to.

We suspected (hoped) this was because a) the floor was a little high from poor jacking or hitting things and b) the door bars were rubbing on the b-pillar and not allowing the rear hoop to go back far enough. Both of these proved to be the case and were each addressed with the same specialized tool: a BFH, the b-pillars after first removing their tan leather wrap. We'll paint those white like the rest of the interior later.

Now everything was falling where it should it was time to drill holes and commit to this cage!!!

and then take the whole thing out and reassemble it again so we can paint it.

BTW the seat cushions turned out lovely

In Part #3 we will finish this project once and for all.

OK, part #3. Final part? Read on..................

Painting took just two coats of brushed on Rustoleum; the same and left over paint we used for the interior. It was a bit of chore having to paint all round each tube and, because we didn't want to remove the sleeves again, required a bit of touch up later. But it is done and we think looks cracking!

While it was drying we ran to Fastenall to get some new hardware. We didn't like the black allen screws that came with the kit and wanted new nylock nuts too.

Then we threw it back in the car. cinched everything down and it fit perfectly.

Then we put the seats and belts back in to complete the project. Well, so we thought.

As you can probably see the seats sit too high; both for shoulder belt angle and head to cage relationship. Unfortunately we don't see any way to get them lower without cutting the existing mounting pads away and fabricating new ones and that is definitely another project so this one is done.

Looks good, lucky find!. As to the harness bar - why not just cut it out and put new ones in? Should be easy enough. Man, those roof bars look mighty close to where a head/helmet will be. Maybe it's just the angle of the photo?

So any future thought of putting a full rally america/NRS cage into the car for stage?

irish44j wrote: Looks good, lucky find!. As to the harness bar - why not just cut it out and put new ones in? Should be easy enough. Man, those roof bars look mighty close to where a head/helmet will be. Maybe it's just the angle of the photo? So any future thought of putting a full rally america/NRS cage into the car for stage?

Harness bar too low, roof bars too low. Or looking at it another way, seats too high. Googling around it seems to be a common issue with caged 911s and re-woring the OE seat mounts is about the only solution.

I doubt it will ever get a stage cage. It makes no sense to stage rally one of these unless you have wads of cash to burn.

Is that an Autopower cage? What size backing plates did you put on the opposite side of the floor panels? I guess I never liked the way they sit on the floor so far from the outer edges of the longitudinals. That is not a very strong area and you have found out how much it can deform just from jacking up the car.

also, make sure you shorten the bolts so they protrude as little as possible on the underside of the car. Don't want to catch a rock and do damage. Ideally you would use a countersink head into a backing plate with the nuts on the topside.

The later 911s became increasingly focused on luxury and comfort. The only way to get a good seat position is to cut the stock seat rails out and then weld new mounts using square tubing across the floor. The seat mounts in an early car sit nearly 2" lower than your Carrera. I am 6'3" and had to make mounts on the floor on my previous track car.

I still love this thread. I went to Rally school a few weeks ago here in TX. They just opened last fall (Rallyready.com). Dave and crew were great. I learned a lot. Now I want to build my own Rally Cross car. I have a friend with a 914 and that might be an option...

Keep getting it dirty!

In reply to jpnovak:

It is an Autopower cage JP, as far as I know anyway. The backing plates are the same size as the feet and all the bolt heads are underneath the car so as flat as can be. I agree that it's not an ideal setup where the floor pads mount but it is better than no cage at all. The motivation for the cage was as much for rally cred as for safety. Think rally-replica/tribute. I drive the car so much less these days and I think it's rallycross career might be over anyway. Maybe it will see the odd track day and perhaps one or two rallycrosses this year. If I can get the rest of the safety gear up to snuff I may do the Empire Hillclimb with it but that's not a goal, just a nice idea. I do seem to have a hankering for some autocrosses right now however. The car is so underdeveloped for it's class but I do like to drive it aggressively from time to time. Mostly (sadly) I will probably just show the car at appropriate venues such as Porsche meets, cars and coffee meets, rallies etc. People love to see it so why not. Still good for business.

I didn't realise earlier cars had lower seating position. That makes a lot more sense as everything about this cage demands about a 2" lower seat. I am sure I will modify the seat mounts soon but right now I need to focus on another project: a UR Quattro rally build :)

I think the 914 would be a rallycross weapon even though the engine is in the wrong place ;) . At the very least you would be a hero to many people.

IS it drivable now or not? Are you coming too and possibly bring the car to the GT on Thursday?

It is driveable right now Adrian. I was considering going on Thursday but just got recruited by an over 40 indoor soccer team (because I'm so EPL) and they play Thursdays. You'll just have to visit the car in the shop, perhaps Thursday before my game (9:30pm) and your shindig or some other time.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: IS it drivable now or not? Are you coming too and possibly bring the car to the GT on Thursday?

teamilluminata wrote: It is driveable right now Adrian. I was considering going on Thursday but just got recruited by an over 40 indoor soccer team (because I'm so EPL) and they play Thursdays. You'll just have to visit the car in the shop, perhaps Thursday before my game (9:30pm) and your shindig or some other time.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: IS it drivable now or not? Are you coming too and possibly bring the car to the GT on Thursday?

Leave me the keys, I'll show it off to the rest of the local GRM crowd for you

DOOR CARDS.

You may remember our car used to be dark pink with a beige interior? Well beige is not a rally color in our book and as this car appears to be transitioning into some sort of rally replica/tribute we thought the door cards needed some attention. We already removed the pockets to get the doors to close with the new cage but when we did the door cards just looked so wrong.

So we did a little research and selected RENNLINE's RS inspired, black leather door cards as they are simple looking and retain all the funtionality of the originals in terms of switch gear etc. One bonus is that they replace the unusual and hard to find door latch handles with a rather nifty red pull strap. http://teamilluminata.com/products/rennline-porsche-911-door-panels

They come complete with everything you need to complete the swap making it a very easy job.

They are a very universal kit that come with all the cutouts already made. All you do is cut out the leather from the holes you need and leave the others in place.

Removing all the dodads from the door is pretty easy

as is removing the door card itself

We discovered that our door caps were covered in brown leather from the factory but it peeled away easily to reveal patterned black plastic below. After removing a bit of old glue they looked like new.

and before we knew it; race car!

fyi https://www.blipshift.com/products/on-safari?utm_source=blipshift+Updates&utm_campaign=d9fc8af15b-On_Safari5_9_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0513fd2cb9-d9fc8af15b-345868157&mc_cid=d9fc8af15b&mc_eid=1a758e495c

blipshift has a shirt you might want.

Cool. Saw that, thanks.

Mad_Ratel wrote: fyi https://www.blipshift.com/products/on-safari?utm_source=blipshift+Updates&utm_campaign=d9fc8af15b-On_Safari5_9_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0513fd2cb9-d9fc8af15b-345868157&mc_cid=d9fc8af15b&mc_eid=1a758e495c blipshift has a shirt you might want.

Might find some seat mounting solutions here: http://www.bkauto.com/category_s/378.htm

Spring is finally here and it appears our little 911 has decided what it's new role in life will be: as a show car!. I know, I know, they should be driven and it's a race car but to be honest sales are keeping us busy and it is over 30 years old now. Perhaps retirement is appropriate. Having said that we do have two defenses to mount: one, it keeps getting invited to shows and two, we have entered the next Detroit Region RallyCross so it's not all show and no go.

So what prompted this you may ask? Well we did rather enjoy showing the car off at last year's [URL="http://www.northernworthersee.com/"]Northern Worthersee show[/URL] in Frankenmuth, you may recall it won best Porsche or something. And the UR quattro of our friend Tim Maskus also won Best Of Show so these cars are very popular and get a lot of exposure.

The car is also very popular at local car and coffee gatherings as you can imagine.

Which may have contributed it being invited to this year's [URL="http://www.eyesondesign.org/carshow/"]Eyes On Design show.[/URL] which is a HUGE honor.

So then we thought it would be good exposure to once again attend the [URL="https://www.facebook.com/Motorstadt/timeline"]Motorstadt show[/URL] in June but this time as a vendor, again with the car of course. This one is a similar crowd as Wurthersee and they have always appreciated the older German stuff.

But then we also got invited to [URL="http://www.concoursusa.org/"]The Concours d'Elegance of America[/URL] along with a bunch of other rally oriented cars. It can't get any better.

However, despite all this attention we are not detailing the car. It's still a race car after all.

.

Was fortunate to make the list for the Detroit region of the SCCA RallyCross this past weekend. These events are always over-subscribed and for good reason; they are a great fun and exceptionally well run.

Unfortunately not driving competitively for six months really diminishes ones skills so, for the first time ever in a RallyCross the poor car did not take home a trophy. I apologized to it profusely.

Still, despite my lack of ability the car is still a crowd pleaser and produces excellent action shots and video:

https://www.facebook.com/brian.thorpe.5/videos/1177258578960966/

The spoiler also doubles as a trophy table!

Pictures by Brian Thorpe and Scott Banes.