$36 each chinese version
$36 each chinese version
Do they come in anything other than sets of five? 
mke said:$36 each chinese version
Could you point me in the direction of Chinese custom pistons?
frenchyd said:Could you point me in the direction of Chinese custom pistons?
No idea, there must be a place but I've never looked...
In reply to mke :
Double factory power should be within reason. Even at relatively low boost numbers. Combined with a few other mods, that is. Not being familiar with this engine at all, but having built a few other flatheads, most of the time there are decent gains to be had just by back facing and unshrouding the valves. A slight bump in compression if you can, and smoothing out the ports... I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Anyway, I took a 42hp vw to about 115 with only 8psi and too much cam, and if I can do it, I know you can.
Since this really old school with a modern twist or 2 ...........why not do a turbo blow thru carb with a custom sheetmetal manifold and 4 barrel ?
In reply to dave215 :
My days of tolerating carburetors are long gone 
My thought is to use the old parts for stuff that doesn't matter too much but use modern good part for the rest.....I know the engine matters but I'm thinking pretty mild build with modern fuel and spark and it should behave while looking the part.
another thought. The scat ford rods are 7" so close to the Lincoln 7.25 and would work with custom pistons but won't fit through the bore.....looking at it this afternoon it sure looks like the piston to be inserted from the top, then the rod connected from the bottom. Kind of a pain but gets a nice off the shelf rod in this thing. They are $560 for 8 so hopefully 4 have ebay value....oh and I was just told I have no car budget until the kids graduate college, so 10 years?
mke said:frenchyd said:Could you point me in the direction of Chinese custom pistons?
No idea, there must be a place but I've never looked...
I've modified pistons myself with nothing more than a wood fixture and a drill press but only for notching piston valve clearance
mke said:another thought. The scat ford rods are 7" so close to the Lincoln 7.25 and would work with custom pistons but won't fit through the bore.....looking at it this afternoon it sure looks like the piston to be inserted from the top, then the rod connected from the bottom. Kind of a pain but gets a nice off the shelf rod in this thing. They are $560 for 8 so hopefully 4 have ebay value....oh and I was just told I have no car budget until the kids graduate college, so 10 years?
Don't believe her, it's a trick. After college your kids need to find a job, Get married, have kids, Your grandchildren grow up. ( that's as far as I am). ;-)
In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :
I wonder how much power is hiding in just a really good ignition setup... I think there's lots of gains to be had with some modern performance thinking and controls.
mke said:In reply to nocones :
I just couldn't figure out how to make it come out right with the engine in back...the engine is about 3ft long and 20s bodies pretty small in back.....I would need a 4 door body I think?
The front axle is well in front of the engine that so technically is a front mid engine I thing. Then use a transaxle, move the battery and fuel to the rear...I'd think 50/50 it certainly doable.....I'd think.....
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
That is what I was afraid it wold come out looking like, a a fighter fuselage with wheels 
Plus I already have a mid-engine V12 car and really just want something completely different with the only semi-exotic piece being the foolish old engine.
I will admit that nocones has me pondering the the front fenders a bit. The "wing" fenders used up through the 30s come off race cars of the time and left for a reason, they are not very safe much about 60mph. Motorcycle fenders maybe or maybe I could do something that kind of covers the front or the wheel and mounts the headlight to kind of hide it with a very gentle nod to LMP....I'm not very good at that stuff but I guess I have a few years to figure it out.
I decide to see how much it really weights. The heads and crank were upstairs in the shop, in a corner semi buried. I was remembering the crank was heavy....but i wasn't remembering THAT heavy.
Block+cam/valves+waterpumps - 240lb
Aluminum heads = 38lb
Crank+damper(because its stuck on) =98.5lb
so 377, add the pistons and rods maybe 400? Add a custom intake and headers...$450? Then clutch and flywheel 500? Not as bad as I thought and honestly better than I'd hoped..l..other than the 100lb crank.
Upside - 100lb crank means you can use a 12 ounce flywheel.
Are you considering trimming some weight off the crank? You sure don't do things the easy way. It makes for great entertainment.
mke said:I decide to see how much it really weights. The heads and crank were upstairs in the shop, in a corner semi buried. I was remembering the crank was heavy....but i wasn't remembering THAT heavy.
Block+cam/valves+waterpumps - 240lb
Aluminum heads = 38lb
Crank+damper(because its stuck on) =98.5lb
so 377, add the pistons and rods maybe 400? Add a custom intake and headers...$450? Then clutch and flywheel 500? Not as bad as I thought and honestly better than I'd hoped..l..other than the 100lb crank.
The Jag V 12 is 78.8 pounds of forged EN 40 steel. So 12 cylinder crankshafts have to be heavy.
bigeyedfish said:Are you considering trimming some weight off the crank? You sure don't do things the easy way. It makes for great entertainment.
I might try...but I think the main issue is it huge. I just looked up a BBC crank which is a shorted stroke and 4 less throws and found 64lb which wold become 94 in 12 cyl format or there about. Handling the ferrari parts I can actually lift has spoiled me a bit.
I think the plan is to plan the engine but not build the engine and move on to the car. The engine needs 2-3 year worth of money and so does the rest of the car....so no point in building an engine and letting it rust or risk damaging anything in the car fab process. Then once I have a roller, time to built a runner.
I just asked and they say the body is 46lb.
Basic plan then
Engine -500lb
Trans (944?) - 150
rolling frame - 350 (100 frame, 150 wheels, 100 suspension
Body - 100
Other - 200
so 1300-1500lbs maybe? that would be pretty ok.
This is sure to be great!
bigeyedfish said:Are you considering trimming some weight off the crank? You sure don't do things the easy way. It makes for great entertainment.
Removing weight on a 60 degree V12's crankshaft is possible because of its perfect balanced nature.
A 75 Degree V12 is inherently out of balance. Would need the counterweights to minimize vibration. ( and also limit rpm
frenchyd said:Removing weight on a 60 degree V12's crankshaft is possible because of its perfect balanced nature.
A 75 Degree V12 is inherently out of balance. Would need the counterweights to minimize vibration. ( and also limit rpm
So that is not quite right...it could be, but not on this engine. This engine has common throws, so it is 2 straight 6 cyl engines running together. A straight 6 crank is inherently balance, there is no bob weight or anything like, change piston or rod weights and it stays balanced as long as all the pistons match each other. It also means you can put a second, or 3rd or whatever number (in theory) set of rods/pistons on the throws and it stays balanced as lond as each new set of pistons&rods match each other you're good, they do not need to match any other set so 1 bank can have different weights from the other bank and balance is not effected because you started with a straight 6.
Now, normally you want the engine smooth as in all the cylinders firing equal crank degrees from each other and there are 2 ways to do that. The easy way is to mak the angle between the banks 60 or 180 degrees so it just works out. The other way is to not use shared throws on the crank so with a 75 degree V that is the only option to make it smooth and that Could screw with balance, but doesn't on a V12 cylinder as what you've built is 2 6 cyl cranks which as both balanced spinning in the same space.
.....or you could do what Ferrari has done on their 65deg V12s (and did on their 85deg F1 V8s) and Lincoln did with this 75deg engine and simple say its smooth enough and not worry about the uneven pulses. So this engine is balanced but not completely smooth.
It is RPM limited by the crank, but not because or balance. The issue here is its a 4 main bearing design instead of 7 mains. That allows the crank to flex significantly, which I guess in turn must throw out of balance?, don't know, but for sure it causes excessive wear in the bearings. Over the years Ford increased the size of the rod bearings at least 3 times trying to stiffen up the crank, so 3 bearing sizes where used in the V12s and a 4th in the last generation flathead straight 6. I have 2.25" rod journals which are massive for the hp level but help keep the crank straight across where the 3 main bearings are missing.
If I use any of the rods I'm talking about it will mean grinding the crank...the scat V8 roads us a 2.138? so I could offset grind the crank to almost 3.875 from the stoke 3.75, but I'd be weakening it. They also make the older 2" size which would let me up the stroke to 4" but make it weaker yet.
Lots to think about on this build.....
Atalanta used these engines in some very attractive cars in the late 1930s. Look them up for more inspiration.
In reply to TurnerX19 :
yes, kind of what I was thinking on the front fenders, maybe match that idea with the track T grill and get an old but clean looking front?
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