If you're considering turbo, the 1.6 will make same peak as the 1.8, just less area under the curve. It'll be cheaper too. No cost of swap, and people sell 1.6 turbo stuff for peanuts because nobody is looking for it.
Just make sure you think you'll be happy with it, as almost none of it will be compatible with a 1.8.
Sincerely,
A Neckbeard
Swank Force One wrote: In reply to NickD: Bp4w is the 99-00 non-vvt motor. They're actually the most expensive.
Yeah, I get Mazda engine codes screwed up all the time.
And my problem with the 1.6L really isn't peak power, it's that it has no guts before it gets up on the cam at 4K, even with the silly 4.30:1 rear gears.
NickD wrote:Swank Force One wrote: In reply to NickD: Bp4w is the 99-00 non-vvt motor. They're actually the most expensive.Yeah, I get Mazda engine codes screwed up all the time. And my problem with the 1.6L really isn't peak power, it's that it has no guts before it gets up on the cam at 4K, even with the silly 4.30:1 rear gears.
A small turbo will help pretty much everywhere, but to that end, every turbo 1.6 i've driven felt pretty laggy compared to almost every turbo 1.8 i've driven.
That said... a basic SR20 turbo setup (small t25) on a 1.6 is very fun, and has very linear response. Easy to drive, and i bet it would be so fun that you wouldn't worry about it being soft at 2000rpm. 
It's so cheap to get a 1.8 motor, if you can do the swap yourself it makes no sense to stick with the 1.6 if you want a decent turbo build.
1.6 turbo stuff just isn't as common IME even if it's less expensive (although I've never seen a huge difference in expense myself). You could trip over 1.8 stuff on the way to the grocery store there is so much stuff out there for them.
I say this as a former turbo 1.6 owner. I did all of it. From a crappy Greddy setup with an AFPR all the way to a custom setup with an MS3x. Get a 1.8 motor. Even if you don't turbo it, if you get a healthy 1.8 motor it will be much more fun than a 1.6 motor.
Harvey wrote: It's so cheap to get a 1.8 motor, if you can do the swap yourself it makes no sense to stick with the 1.6 if you want a decent turbo build. 1.6 turbo stuff just isn't as common IME even if it's less expensive (although I've never seen a huge difference in expense myself). You could trip over 1.8 stuff on the way to the grocery store there is so much stuff out there for them. I say this as a former turbo 1.6 owner. I did all of it. From a crappy Greddy setup with an AFPR all the way to a custom setup with an MS3x. Get a 1.8 motor. Even if you don't turbo it, if you get a healthy 1.8 motor it will be much more fun than a 1.6 motor.
I'm thinking doing it in like a multi-step process. Drop in a 1.8L this winter for a decent power and torque boost and then boost it next winter.
Why are the '99-'01 motors more expensive? Better flowing head, correct? So if I can find one of those without a premium, I should probably grab that?
NickD wrote:Harvey wrote: It's so cheap to get a 1.8 motor, if you can do the swap yourself it makes no sense to stick with the 1.6 if you want a decent turbo build. 1.6 turbo stuff just isn't as common IME even if it's less expensive (although I've never seen a huge difference in expense myself). You could trip over 1.8 stuff on the way to the grocery store there is so much stuff out there for them. I say this as a former turbo 1.6 owner. I did all of it. From a crappy Greddy setup with an AFPR all the way to a custom setup with an MS3x. Get a 1.8 motor. Even if you don't turbo it, if you get a healthy 1.8 motor it will be much more fun than a 1.6 motor.I'm thinking doing it in like a multi-step process. Drop in a 1.8L this winter for a decent power and torque boost and then boost it next winter. Why are the '99-'01 motors more expensive? Better flowing head, correct? So if I can find one of those without a premium, I should probably grab that?
99-00. 
They're more expensive because there's less of them, Spec Miata likes them, and they're a nice midway point between the old 94-97 motor and he 01-05 motor. They're at a slight power-under-the-curve disadvantage compared to the 01-05 motor, but are much simpler. No VVT to worry about, and they seem to handle being rev'd a bit better than the VVT motors, which have a weird resonance/vibration issue around 7300rpms.
Ancedotes are just anecdotes, but i spin my 2000 to 7500 with no ill effects yet, and that seems to be somewhat common.
Really depends what you're after. VVT motor will probably be slightly cheaper to buy, more expensive to get running right, but make more torque. BP4W (99-00) will be more expensive to buy, easier/cheaper to get running, and make about the same top end.
You can expect the numbers mine put out, and a little more, in my build thread out of a BP4W with bolt ons with Megasquirt. I do have a bit of a gearing advantage, but the car moves pretty well.
One thing to point out, however: Unless you have a huge attachment to your current car, it may be worth considering just buying an NB. They're getting cheap, and i know i would have paid more for my motor, transmission, and rear end than what i paid for the entire car. If you do want to stick with the NA6, i'd still recommend buying an entire donor car BECAUSE you're starting with an NA6. Everything driveline, suspension, and brakes on that car would be an upgrade you should consider putting on your car.
Swank Force One wrote: One thing to point out, however: Unless you have a huge attachment to your current car, it may be worth considering just buying an NB. They're getting cheap, and i know i would have paid more for my motor, transmission, and rear end than what i paid for the entire car. If you do want to stick with the NA6, i'd still recommend buying an entire donor car BECAUSE you're starting with an NA6. Everything driveline, suspension, and brakes on that car would be an upgrade you should consider putting on your car.
This is actually a really good point. If you go this route you might want to just take off your good stuff and sell the current car and find a 1.8 car. You will want the bigger, ideally Torsen, rear end from the car, which also requires a different driveshaft and halfshafts, in addition to the engine.
Looking back on it I should have just left my 1.6 car alone and gotten a 1.8 car, because I ended up throwing so much 1.8 car stuff on it that it would have made more sense to have the 1.8 in the first place.
Most of the stuff you have bought already for your car can go onto a different 1.8 car. If you start down the turbo road you're gonna get into things that won't work that way.
Plus you will save yourself the time and trouble of doing a swap. It just makes a lot more sense to get a 1.8 car if you go down this route. I wouldn't even bother getting a donor car as you will spend so much time swapping the whole drivetrain that it won't be worth it in the end. You can find 1.8 cars for $3-4k now.
I'd rather stick with the NA at this point. It's emissions exempt in my state (Pre-OBDII), finding a Miata here in the Rust Belt that isn't beat to death or rotten or carry a ludicrous price tag is tough, I prefer the styling, I now have the car pretty well sorted and have fixed all the issues it had when I got it and at this point it's pretty much upgraded to NA8 specs aside from the driveline (I've got 1.8L brakes, braced the rear lower control arms, etc.)
And honestly, I think if I sold the Miata, it wouldn't be to get another Miata. If I sold it, it'd probably be to make the jump to a WRX.
I'm aware that the NA6 isn't an optimal chassis, but I'm not setting out to make a super, ultra competitive racecar. The goal is to make a fun street car that I also take to the autocross (not to win but to have fun) so I'm okay with handicapping myself a little.
The chassis itself is one of the better ones, because it's the lightest. NB subframe/control geometry is better, transmission better, rear end better, motor better, and if you get one with Sport brakes, the brakes are better than what you have now.
I don't know what sort of time you have to do this, but if you like your car and it's rust free, stick with it. I'd still get a whole donor. 
It'll be cheaper in the end if you get the right car. Possibly even $free.99.
If I was out to build the ultimate track car or something, then yes, I'd consider it. But once again, this is mostly just meant to be a fun street car that sees occasional autocrossing for fun. Kind of a case of good vs good enough. I'm not an amazing performance driver, so some of that stuff would kinda be wasted on me. Considering the flack I get for the cars I have hanging around, I doubt a donor car would be welcome.
I've thought about getting high-performance driving schooling but the only place that does that around me is Watkins Glenn and they won't allow my car out there without a helmet, rollbar and harnesses. And I'm pretty sure that with the stock seat and a rollbar I'd never pass a broom test. I'm 6'3" and 230lbs, for reference, on the upper end of the Miata size ownership scale.
No no, i'm not saying ditch your car. I'm saying you'll spend $600-$1000 on a motor, so why not just get a whole car, sell off what you don't need, and possibly get the motor for free, along with maybe some other goodies you can use at your leisure.
This is how you get a cheap 99-00 motor if you want to do that instead of mess with VVT. NB1s are dirt cheap to begin with, let alone if they have some major cosmetic flaws. I paid $2300 for my entire car, and it ran and drove. This is a BP4W/6spd/Torsen car, too.
Yeah, there are literally no Miatas less than $4000 in my area. Thanks, New York.
Oh. That's no good. 
Yeah, they either rot into oblivion or everyone wants an arm and a leg. That's why I bought a formerly wrecked 1.6L car that needed work for $3900. A relative steal. I've only ever seen two in the junkyard and both were 1.6L cars. The used car dealership up the road from me had a Shinsen Version NB that still had the blue top and interior, but they wanted $7000. I looked at it before buying mine.
The Shinsens had a blue interior? I thought only the 10AE had that. (I don't follow special editions really well, they're all just Miatas.)
I looked at a Shinsen earlier this year and yes, it did have a blue interior.
Yup, Shinsen had a blue top, blue interior, silver paint and white gauge faces. No real performance benefits but they looked cool.
Oh. Like this.
Ok, not really what i was thinking, but that's still interesting.
Go out of state a little bit?
Not even sure what is wrong with this one.
http://newhaven.craigslist.org/ctd/5206074916.html
I'm here in Southern CT if you find something up here like the above.
I just wouldn't go down the route of power adders with the 1.6 motor. You're gonna blow up the rear end, it's almost guaranteed and then you'll be looking for a Torsen and then you'll be wondering why you didn't get a 1.8 motor.
If you want to just keep the 1.6 motor then upgrade the suspension and leave the rest alone. It will still be a fun car.
I'd rather stick with the NA at this point.
BTW, you do realize there are NA Miatas with 1.8 motors right?
Harvey wrote: Not even sure what is wrong with this one. http://newhaven.craigslist.org/ctd/5206074916.html I'm here in Southern CT if you find something up here like the above. I just wouldn't go down the route of power adders with the 1.6 motor. You're gonna blow up the rear end, it's almost guaranteed and then you'll be looking for a Torsen and then you'll be wondering why you didn't get a 1.8 motor.
What's wrong with that one is that it's $4000 and I'm a broke-ass GM mechanic.
And I question the rumors of how weak the 1.6L rearend is. Superfastmiata started with a 1990 for their test car and has said they have beat the living tar out of that car with the J-series V6 and the rear diff has yet to expire. Also, one of the guys I autocross with has a 1.6L car that makes about 200hp at the crank and he said he autocrossed it for years without any issues with the rear diff.
Superfastmiata also says...
What rear end is to be used? Our demo JV6 Miata is using the factory 1990 Miata rear differential with over 212,000 miles. The [sic]perferred rear diff is the 7" from 1994+ models.
You know what though? Do what you want!
Wilrunifchased has a running and driving (with a clutch slave replacement) NB1 for $1500 here on the boards. He's in PA.
In reply to Swank Force One:
Yeah, $1500 isn't even really swingable at the moment. Between the recent purchase of the Cheap Jeep and getting that up to speed maintenance-wise and the fact that my service manager keeps giving me crap jobs and I haven't turned a 40 hour week only once in the past 2 months, it's dicey.
I know that feel. I'm daily driving my Miata at the moment because i haven't been able to replace the Cherokee that got wrecked a month and a half ago yet.
It's awful.
In reply to Harvey:
I appreciate the advice you have given, but it's just that financially I really can't toss the car and start all over again (Not just mods but maintenance and correcting issues that are always present on used cars). It took me a year of saving and 2 years to get to where it is, it's a bit hard to just start all over again. And like I said before, honestly, if I were to sell the Miata, I'd probably want to move up further than just another (albeit better) Miata.
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