I picked up the car from Persad last night and yes it's finally running right. The best words to describe it are night and day. This is finally what it should be and it rocks. On the 7th we have our next event and I'll have to get some quick learning in about what it really does. After the event, we'll have and extended "fun run" session for T&T time and just more seat time. Better bring extra gas.
Awesome build! Glad you got it sorted.
Another detail to get done. Adding some bumpers. A bit of dress up and low level protection but they also serve to add tow hook placement rather than having to crawl under the car in teh dirt/mud. The originals weighed in at 50 pound each. These run just at 5 pounds each. Some 3/16 steel plasma cut brackets and mounting tabs along with some left over upper fence rail from the fence repair. It's a thin wall like conduit.
I rolled them to match the body profile using one of these:
Then they look like this with the brackets getting welded in place (Tacked while on the car).
A couple brackets for bolting to the old bumper mount locations.
Here is the rear one installed. The front might need mounts for a LED light bar.
It's actually pretty stout. Very good for a straight pull out of needed. Plus it kind of fills back in those blacked out areas on both ends of the car.
In reply to RallyCaddy :
That looks really clean! I think the old 4WOR guys would call it "sano"
One last detail for now. A light bar to finish off that "Rally" look and in case i get out too late.
It was just getting dusk when I took the pic. Loaded up and ready for our event tomorrow.
Update: Its insanely fast but very hard to control. Any real throttle and the rear wants to get away. Oversteer that I am not used to in an FWD. Taming it will be a challenge. On areas where power CAN be applied, it's nuts. The turn in is nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be. That's good anyway. But in order to get more grip in the rear I have to do something. No time right now but I did pull a spring on the back to see if I can soften it at all. It tested out at 85 Lb/in and has 2.5" preload (212#) plus 2" of compression on the ground (178#) = 382#. The leverage of the shock to the axle is about 1.25 so that makes it 477# at the wheel. The car scale weight showed it to be around 500 per side so with measurement error, that probably works out.
To drop the rate maybe 15% would need 70# springs. A free length of about 16" is required and I can't really find much available under 125# on the market. Either I find something or learn how to make this work. Right now all the rear adjustment plates are removed so at sag the wheels are 0 camber but at ride height I have about 1.5 - 2 negative. I think I will make that zero on the ground and see what else I can work with. I have to check that rear toe too.
Wow - hadn’t stopped in here since the bubble flares were on it. Love the snorkel scope and tasteful hodgepodge of goodies. Happy to hear it’s running strong enough to be scary - always a good sign.
Update, Axle fixed and rear wheel alignment had gone all wonky. 1" toe out. Yeah, that'll make it handle like it's got casters on the rear. I'm working on how much it will take to get that to have a better adjustment range. Oh, and also a go over nut-n-bolt check as they were missed in the frantic build schedule. I bet nobody ELSE ever did that...
Update after the MO divisional. Much faster and better control but still, any more than 1/2 throttle spins the tires and it gets tail happy. I was just getting a handle on it a bit when the outer CV blew up. Upon inspection, the new inner is also toast. I need to come up with better axles and fast.
We were wondering what happened.
The "fun" part of Mod is developing a new car. 2/3rds of Fun is "F.U."...
Well, I had to go out on Biz so no time to work on th car. Yesterdays RX event I sat out and just did timing, setup and tear down. Today I disassembled a set of Subaru shafts and the better (larger) Porsche shafts. With those parts, the Stage 3 VW shafts and what ever else I need, I'll start ordering steel to fab new shafts with better joints later this week. The Drieshaft shop said they don't take cars in to make shafts, just pics and dimensions. As that is the case, I think I can do my own better ones. I really think having bolt-together face flanges at the center of each shaft is a good plan. That way only 1/2 needs to be replaced if damaged AND it is easier to install them.
I'm thinking of fabricating up some adaptors for the outer stub flanges. Other than custom fab'd and hardened stubs, stock is the only choice. 914-6 units are unobtainium. With an NA motor and no more than the stock 165 HP new grade 8 socket heads should keep that from failing. Looks like some machining time coming up.
So some updates at the year end are in order.
I had a lot of issues with axles coming apart. Not really breaking, just dis-assembling themselves. I cut the axles in half and added flanges to bolt them together in order to get proper float and then eventually replaced all the snap rings. The wire ring clips at the inner Subaru joints were very weak. Replaced with serious inside snap rings.
All that helped and seems to have fixed the major problem area.
Our November event was a swamp/mud festival. With BR Indysports on teh back and Tractor steering tires up front it blasted everyone and just went like hell. BUT at a price. The mud just filled the radiator fans and blocked the radiator. Still no overheating but the fans blew the fuses at teh end. Inspection after days of power washing and scraping revealed major damage to the cooling fins. A new radiator will be ordered. This time Griffin will build it using mine for a pattern.
The other issue was that 2 weeks later at the December event the clutch quit engaging. Trans removal revealed mud had gotten into the pressure plate, dried up hard and blocked the diaphram spring. Complete clean out fixed it.
Just for fun, I had a set of steel Honda wheels. I cut some rings and parts on the plasma and made up a set of Duallies.
Looks nasty right?
I didn't run them as the unsprung weight is terrible and it WILL probably break the axle/studs/adaptor and when that happens the car will ride up over them and flip. That is what happened to my Golf when the axle broke. Car would be totaled. So for the moment it's an idea that needs work but should increase lateral grip. Then there is the cones.......
So next up is some gauges and that new radiator. It's getting better as I fix the problem areas but I still believe in it as a darn good RX car.
I have to say, I appreciate how much you're thinking outside the box with this build. The dually idea, running tractor steering tires on the front, the fabrication skill, etc. I love it.
Having heard all the horror stories about nationals, I have to imagine that someone is going to cause a fuss about the duallies, but MAN is it cool!
Wheels and tires are free except for no temporary spare wheels, and no homebuilt studs.
3.1 ELIGIBLE VEHICLES (Mandatory for all SCCA sanctioned RallyCross events. See Article
2.1)
A RallyCross event is open to any fixed‐roof, four‐wheeled, mass‐produced
passenger vehicle that can pass safety inspection.
We can argue whether that means "four is the number of wheels" or "wheels only in four places" but the word of the rule is four and only four wheels. Personally I wouldn't protest it because it would be hilarious to watch and I can't imagine any way that the extra width doesn't more than offset any extra grip, especially on the typical overly tight nationals course.
In reply to dps214 :
Spacers are part of the wheel, and tubes are part of the tire. The car still has only four hubs.
Personal experience suggests that wider is less lateral grip, but it ain't my car, and it ain't gonna hurt anybody, so why fight it?
To be clear, I would never protest or complain about it, and frankly encourage it because it's an interesting idea. I just imagine a conversation similar to this happening if it goes to a national-level event in that configuration and someone somewhere getting bent out of shape about it.
In reply to artur1808 :
It wouldn't be the first time, by a long shot. A lot of people seem to get great joy out of getting bent out of shape.
There's a strong chance that I'll be running PR at Nationals next year, and being at Nationals means I'll probably experience the protests firsthand.
How about outer rear tires that are a size or two smaller than the inboard tires.
A bit more with some pics to be added over the holiday. Now it has GAUGES!! So I know when I am in trouble.
Also added a steering quickener (2:1) from the VW donor racer. Oh, and I blocked off the cowl vent so water splashes don't rain down on my feet and legs since all the vents and ducts were removed. That was bad in the swamp-fest we had in November.
The massive mud literally packed the radiator and fans causing some serious damage to the radiator. I can't believe it's not leaking. A custom replacement is on order from Griffin.
Next are inner door panels and splash guards for the radiator all from ABS. Laser cut of course. Pics to come.
As for the "legality" of the duals. Well, a since dually pickup would be allowed to race with no protest. What's the difference then? Also, pickups use duals to add load handling. Not so much for traction, but since it spreads the load out then air pressures can be lowered for additional grip without the de-bead issue. Again, it's for lateral grip, not for traction straight ahead. The big downside as it stands is the added width is sure to grab cones and thus penalties. But hey, it looks great on the trailer for that WTF response if nothing else.
Picture update time!
SAo first, having nop gauges at all is verve wracking. Only the OBD reader available to read engine water temp. I re-used the gauge pod from the VW rally truck with mechanical oil pressure, mechanical water temp , volts and even a fuel gauge. I use mechanical gauges where I can so it is not dependent on electrical to work. Even with the power off, engine temp will thus be displayed. Since I was re-working the steering column, I modified it to sandwich between the mount and column plate. Then trimmed the back to fit around the cowl.
Then as seen above, I also reused the steering quickener from the VW (2:1 ratio). The splines are a standard 3/4" 36 count and the sleeves are easily available (Speedway or Summit). The mounting plate is 3/16" steel.
Another area I always deal with is the inner doors. I hate having that open unfinished look. Sharp edges and wide open also is a mess when washing out the inside of the car after a messy one. The window regulators get washed + dirt = rust. Plus the doors can get a lot more mud and dirt in them when left open. I usually cover them. Starting with a cardboard template, I then draw a grid on it and use that to measure and do a CAD drawing. Then I cut one from cardboard on the laser to check fit and details. After that I cut them from thin aluminum or in this case ABS sheet (1/8"). I drill the mounting holes by hand making sure to miss existing holes. Then open them up to 3/8" for 1/4" nut-serts. Secure with 1/4x3/4 button head screw in stainless. Finished looks better and cleans better.
Adding the water temp probe was pretty easy. I was not using the heater loop so I just put in a T fitting like so.
The radiator damage from the mud-to-fan mess is bad BUT not leaking. Anyway, I am sending this one over to Griffin as a pattern to make another new one. This was one I modified in a hurry just to get the car done. I have time now for a proper Replacement. I do have to add some splash guards to prevent this again.
My ranger rally truck needs a steering quickener. I've been eyeing that style for years now, just haven't gotten that project to the top of the priority list yet. Any negatives related to it at all?
Turning at zero speed takes more effort but once moving it's not very noticeable. When at speed you forget all about it but when you need to unwind that wheel fast it really helps. I also find myself able to make it thru most courses without taking my hands off the wheel or shuffle steering.
Note: I don't have power assist on any Rally cars. No fluid leaks, lower weight and less to break down.
Thanks. Unwinding the wheel fast is where my truck really struggles. Sounds like I need to hurry up and get one in.
Do you have power or manual steering?
If you have power steering, you MIGHT run into a situation where you turn the wheel faster than the pump can keep up and assist just sort of stops. My VW was bad for that and it didn't even have a quickener. It only ever did it while autocrossing though, never rallycrossing.
I drive a quickener with manual steering on the street (1200lb on the front tires). Long steady turns like highway interchanges mean you steer with your shoulders, not your arms or wrists. Kind of like the difference between pushing a brake pedal vs. pushing a clutch pedal. Other people who have driven my car said it's "not really that bad". I definitely do not regret it.
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