https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5keTM9eyCOg
Has anybody attempted to build a version of Vizard's zero loss system? I am very interested in taking it on once I get to that point for Stevie Ray Van.
I am curious about two points:
1) Could the two sides of a V8 exhaust be marged after the two mufflers without losing power; and
2) Other than "at least eight times the volume of one cylinder," I wonder if there are any critical dimensions to the termination box.
I bought "Tuning BL's A series engine" by Vizard. The dude relies exclusively on actual data and was waaaaaaay ahead of his time. I read that book front to back maybe ten times. Brilliant mind.
Yep, I have a few copies of his a series books.
2 things I realized - 1, I've been pronouncing his last name wrong (it does not rhyme with wizard) & 2, his daughter killed herself in 2014. I haven't followed him is 15 years but holy hell that's a shock to find out.
Brilliant guy.
Adding: Watched the video- looks the the "open chamber" of 8x single cylinder volume is a resonator. Which for a 2.0 matches up pretty well with vibrant 1141, which is 3.7L volume give or take. Also interesting the 2.1 CFM / HP for zero loss- good for planning.
I found out the same two things. Tragic about his daughter. I don't know if I could recover from that. Maybe it's silly to even say that. I honestly didn't know he was still around, but it sounds like hes instructing at a university in NC?
In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
As I understand it, and my understanding is probably inaccurate and definitely incomplete, the termination box is designed and intended to make the engine "see" open air--i.e. to simulate the end of the exhaust system. Vizard talks in the video about the termination box causing a pressure wave to reflect back through the exhaust system as it would if the collector pipes were open. The way I understand it, the termination box is the zero loss portion of the system.
At another point, I saw it referenced the termination box was a "resonator". He also obliquely referenced what I think we refer to as helmholtz resonators before the termination box, and in the box. I'd be interested in more discussion about that.
Teh E36 M3 said:At another point, I saw it referenced the termination box was a "resonator". He also obliquely referenced what I think we refer to as helmholtz resonators before the termination box, and in the box. I'd be interested in more discussion about that.
I agree about his calling the termination box a resonator. He did so when he was discussing this execution on a Corvette. With that said, he does make the occasional slip. He had some health problems that led to a brain surgery, so he has some memory problems. He also said "manifold" in place of "muffler." The termination box could also function as a resonator for all I know, and for all I know, it could function only as a resonator and not do what I think it does at all.
The item he was discussing before the termination box was a balance pipe to be connected to the other bank.
Yeah, I can tell hes got some difficulties translating his thoughts into the correct words, but you can tell hes all there on the inside. It's hard to watch vigorous people deal with the effects of aging and other challenges perhaps having to do with some brain surgery.
I know he's super smart and talented... I've read the books and just revere the guy. I also love that for whatever reason he loves to E36 M3 on supertrapps. It's just funny to me. And with the data I read in the "Tuning BL's A series Engine" he's got the science to back him up.
Teh E36 M3 said:Yeah, I can tell hes got some difficulties translating his thoughts into the correct words, but you can tell hes all there on the inside. It's hard to watch vigorous people deal with the effects of aging and other challenges perhaps having to do with some brain surgery.
I know he's super smart and talented... I've read the books and just revere the guy. I also love that for whatever reason he loves to E36 M3 on supertrapps. It's just funny to me. And with the data I read in the "Tuning BL's A series Engine" he's got the science to back him up.
And Flowmasters!
Yeah, he's definitely all there. He's going to slip from time to time. We all do. I would like to know what he meant for sure when he said "resonator," and what exactly is happening to make this system zero loss. I also wonder why automakers aren't doing it on high performance vehicles. Maybe it's impractical with a catalytic converter.
I understand that a pressure wave is reflected up the system at the tailpipe (or inside the termination box.) I assume that getting the pressure wave to reflect at a chosen point (at a specified collector length) simulates the termination of the system and prevents the engine from having to push the pressure wave all the way out the tailpipe. Maybe the reflecting pressure wave needs to be timed to help push some escaping air/fuel charge back into the chamber before the exhaust valve is fully closed.
I will be going to the engine builder that I work with to drop off the Vortec engine for my Astro project sometime before Christmas. When I do, I am going to ask and learn about exactly what is going on here. I want to understand this system better and also know if it is worth the effort for my application. Compared to most cars, the Astro (and many other trucks and vans) presents a challenge to building a system such as this by placing a long fuel tank longitudinally and inboard of a chassis rail (yes, the Astro is unibody, but I'm using the term anyway.) A zero loss system would be much easier to build with a fuel tank mounted behind the rear axle and roughly centered.
I think I could do a decent job of it with left and right bank pipes running down the passenger side of the van, but that presents some challenges/problems. One problem is aesthetic: exiting both sides of a dual exhaust system on one side of the vehicle seems silly. I could collect the two banks together way back in the system, but I don't know if there is an adverse effect in collecting into one tailpipe with this system.
Another space saving option would be to run side pipes if I can find side pipes that are 2.5" all the way through and muffle decently enough for a family vehicle.
So having not read his books, is the 8X cylinder volume purely for a V8? Would a 4-cylinder be 4X volume?
In reply to sobe_death :
I have wondered that myself. It is reasonable to assume that it is cylinder volume X number of cylinders. Every video of his that I have watched has been about one V8 or another, so I think that he was in the V8 thinking groove when he did this video and didn't think to generalize what he said.
Back in my Pinto days, I got (and still have) a Vizard book on "hot to hotrod Ford 2.0L OHC engines." In it, he talks about a free-flowing but low-restriction exhaust, which used a louvered-core glasspack installed in reverse (louvers pointing rearward) in the middle, and a turbo muffler at the end.
Could be why, since this is, in essence, a "resonator," he still uses the term.
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