Emergency Backup Hot Rod (and double emergency backup truck)--repairs and upgrades

You guys didn't seem to mind my 1934 Ford 3W coupe build thread and when I mentioned my 1932 Ford pickup, there seemed to be enough interest, so I'm starting this build thread.  I'll start with the current repair and upgrade plan and then give you some background on the truck in the next few updates.

My older son, Jack, and I built this truck in about 90 days back in 2011.  He was 15, so it was a great father/son project.  It went fast for two reasons: 

1. It's a simple build and a fair amount of the work was already done.
2. 15 year-olds are impatient and think everything is fast and easy:  Jack pushed to get this thing done and sucked me along!

More on that later.

For now, here's a picture of it from a few years ago.  It hasn't changed since then.

Like many of you, I've got a lot of cars, and this one gets driven once or twice a month, plus some time at local events.  So not much.  It's been "finished" since 2011, but as you all know, things are never finished.  There were a couple of details to tidy up, plus the free used 1940 flathead we put it in had a couple of issues.  Since it ran and drove, I didn't want to take it off the road until I was sure I'd have time to address the issues.  It looks like I will have time, plus my younger son Chris (18) is ready to pick up where Jack left off, so the next part is another father/son project.  I'm a very lucky guy.

So, here's the scope of work for these repairs and upgrades:

• Six cylinders have 110 psi of compression.  One has 60.  One has 15.  It's got a lumpy idle, but it ain't the cam...
• It might end up with a set of aluminum aftermarket heads, a different carb setup, and headers/exhaust.  We'll see.
• The fuel gauge reads backward:  If it's at 1/4 tank, it reads 3/4.  If it reads full, it's nearly empty.  That pattern needs to be reversed.
• The odometer doesn't work and the speedometer needs a ratio adapter.
• No hand brake.
• Front shocks are original '32 Ford units (leaking badly and only work for a few days when full of oil.)  No rear shocks.   It's getting tube shocks.
• It's a steel body and bed with fiberglass fenders.  I got a deal on a set of steel front fenders at the Hershey AACA swap meet a few years back and they will be replacing the fronts.
• Wiring is done, but I never laced it properly and it still has temporary tie wraps.
• Maybe a few more things will creep in...

So, two detail pictures of the start of the project.  First, we pulled the fenders, hood, and got the nuts off of the heads to start getting into the compression issue.  The heads are stuck on the block.  We think it's a combination of being rusted to the head studs and sealer on the head gaskets.  We're giving it a few days of penetrant on the studs before we attempt the brute force of pulling them off.

Those ugly zip ties need to be replaced with waxed string lacing.  See them on the firewall and the picture below?

This is what laced wiring looks like when it's done right (not my work):

I absolutely love the laced wiring look.  Any tips you've picked up in doing it?

I'll continue to back-fill on the build in the next few updates.  In the mean time, here are nine photos of the original build.  We started on 3/21/2011 and had it "finished" on 6/26/2011, just working nights and a few weekends.  Like I said, it was a simple build and Jack was impatient to get it "done" and drive it.

Here's where we started.  We bought if from a guy who bought if from a guy who bought it from a guy...who bought it from someone's widow.  It had probably last been really touched 10 years prior, but it had really good bones, almost no rust, and most of the previous work was well-done.

The primer on the steel parts was all getting surface rust.  The fiberglass fenders were still in gel coat.  It hadn't run in years and didn't have usable wiring.  The brakes sort of worked and were still mechanical.  It had a shortened bed, 1935 Ford 16" wire wheels (desirable), and the upholstery (aka seat) was done. 

The original 4 cylinder engine had been swapped for a flathead V8 that we quickly learned had a lot of cracks in the water jackets from bad storage (never leave water only in an engine, especially if death is in your future).

While friends wanted us to preserve the "patina," it was just rusty primer to me.  So we painted everything in PPG DP-90 epoxy semi-gloss primer (one of my favorite hot rod colors) and put some new chrome on the truck.  Again, I'll add details, but the next few pictures show some of the evolution.

Almost done, just needed to repaint the grille insert and the wheels and put some bigs and littles on it to replace those wide whites.

Mr_Asa said:

I absolutely love the laced wiring look.  Any tips you've picked up in doing it?

It's not hard, just time consuming.  I basically wire the vehicle almost twice.  First I lay everything out rough, then go back and make sure all wires are parallel, work hard to get the radiuses and lengths right, and get entries and exits clean.  I'll detail it in a future update.

Subscribed

In for the cool truck stuff!!!

In reply to Carl Heideman :

Your truck is fantastic. ( and not just because I owned the 1930's version of it.)  However with twice the horsepower of the original and modern traffic you simply have to upgrade to juice brakes.  
 I tried to adjust my way around the mechanical binders, to the point of weekly applications of anti sieze on all the linkage points.  
Then  I drove a friends who'd put hydraulic brakes from a 40 on ( anything after 1935 is Hydraulic) and stopped half measures. 
I bought the brakes from a hot rodder who went to disk brakes.  They were the aluminum finned drum brakes from a Buick. Iconic bit of hot rod kit if there ever was.  
They worked so good that the first stop, my normal stomp on the brake pedal resulted in me hitting my head on the steering wheel. 
  I've since driven the disk brakes version with power assist and felt the drum brakes actually stopped faster with less pedal pressure, ( the advantage of dual servo drum brakes). 
OK if you're going to road race(?) your 32 disks wont fade as bad. And disks are easier to change the linings in. But stopping quickly?  Give me those drum brakes any day. Plus they really look right.  
    There are disk brakes out there with aluminum  finned drum brakes covers that look right but they are seriously expensive.  

Speedway Motors has the perfect solution.  You get to keep your wire wheels which are a great look as far as I'm concerned. But get both the finned aluminum drum and a direct fit without all the machine work it takes to make the Buick drums fit on your hubs.  New drums, not junkyard hunts you have to weld fins back on and have already been ground .080 oversized.  
Did I mention direct bolt on's ?  
But they are $300 each.   That's not as insane as it sounds. Adapting the Buick's involves finding them. ( not easy to do) machining the hub to Ford  size and then redrilling the 5x5 bolt pattern to Ford's 5 1/2 x5.  

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm totally on board with Frenchy and upgrading the brakes- thankfully, these don't weigh much (it's what, just over a ton?) so even 4-corner drums will be an upgrade.

I'm really excited to see what upgrades for the old flattie you've got in mind- I love updating old technology with new ancilliaries. What are you planning on? I see you've already swapped an alternator so you could concievably have an electic fan if you don't mind the look or can hide it well...

So, about the brakes...

As purchased, the truck's brakes were a mess.   

Please keep in mind I own Eclectic Motorworks and we fix old Fords (stock and hot rodded) on a very regular basis.  I figure I've made well over 10,000 test drives in several thousand vehicles over the course of my career.  I've driven cars with little brakes, big brakes, disk brakes, drum brakes, transmission brakes, external contracting, internal expanding, the list goes on.  There are brakes that are inherently good and others that are not.  In my experience and opinion, how the components are selected, setup, and adjusted is usually a bigger factor in how effective they are than whether they are disk, drum, big or little.   We did a really cool story about this in Classic Motorsports a long time ago using an XKE as an example. 

I recently drove a Shelby kit car that came into the shop with pizza-sized rotors and fancy red calipers and I nearly went through the first stop sign on the test drive.  It probably has "race" pads on it that don't have a good coefficient of friction until they're way up in temperature.  Or the bores or pedal ratio or balance is wrong.  Or all of that.  We'll fix it and it will stop like is should.  Right now, a stock Model A would outstop it.  Anyway, I digress a little.

I'm in the camp that if you can lock up all four tires, you don't need better brakes, you need better tires. 

Once I went through the '32's mechanical brakes and picked the correct woven linings, arc'd them to match the drums, made sure the surface finish on the drums was good, repaired every bushing, roller, and pin that was worn out, and then spent a few hours getting everything adjusted just right, my truck will lock up all four skinny tires on Henry's optimized brakes.  It would have been easier to convert it to juice brakes for several reasons, but I kept them mechanical for three reasons:

1. We built the truck to the theme of 1945-1950ish period with the exception of the alternator, which will probably get replaced at some point (more on that at another time).  Some hot rods had juice brake upgrades by then, but a lot didn't.
2. Since we fix a lot of early Fords that are in the stock category, I wanted a similar vehicle to use to let customers see how good we can make mechanical brakes.
3. Sometimes I like to be a contrarian and I get so many people saying those brakes are wrong until they go for a ride and I slam them on.

I'll say that while the truck stops well, I don't love the way the brakes feel or grab.  Juice brakes always feel better.  On pretty much any other project, I'd do juice brakes.  For Model A until 1934 hot rods, I love the Ford juice brake, Buick drum combination that Frenchyd mentions (that's what's on my '34).  Disks are more convenient, but hot rods to me are more about history and sculpture than about logic.   

To me, the biggest issue about mechanical brakes once the core repairs are made, is that the adjustment is so critical to their success.  Hydraulic brakes are much more forgiving as there is equal pressure going to each circuit if all is done right.  So both front brakes should be in sync, etc..  With mechanical brakes, if one front brake is adjusted just a little tighter than the other (especially at the pull rod or cable, depending on the car), it will make the car pull to that side.  Sometimes the brakes are adjusted so poorly that only one or two of the brakes is actually working.  There are many other examples of why mechanical brakes don't work well, but I'll say for 1930's Fords, if they're done right, they work pretty well.  They are 12" after all.  

I wanted to see what it was like to live with properly setup mechanical drums and to be able to let customers experience it, so that's why I'm still on mechanical brakes.

I hope this didn't sound too soapbox-like.  And I hope AngryCorvair agrees with me, at least in principle!

Keep the tank about 1/2 full? Fixed!

In reply to Carl Heideman :

Beautiful truck!

What's it like living with a cab that small?

Robbie said:

Keep the tank about 1/2 full? Fixed!

Why didn't I think of that?  Great idea!

Woody said:

In reply to Carl Heideman :

Beautiful truck!

What's it like living with a cab that small?

I'm 5'10" and I'm probably at the tall end of a fairly good but tight fit.  It's a little hard to see stoplights without bending down.  That's a problem with a lot of older cars and their driving positions, though.  I've also got a '50 Chevy pickup (that's the emergency backup truck, this is the double emergency backup truck).  That one is pretty roomy in comparison, but still has the stoplight vision issue.

GIRTHQUAKE said:

 

I'm really excited to see what upgrades for the old flattie you've got in mind- I love updating old technology with new ancilliaries. What are you planning on? I see you've already swapped an alternator so you could concievably have an electic fan if you don't mind the look or can hide it well...

Thanks for the encouragement.

Regarding upgrades, I'm going to stick with very traditional stuff--heads, more carbs, headers, exhaust, nothing high tech.  I'm hoping to avoid a complete engine build, so it will be pretty mild.   I'll run it on a chassis dyno as some of the changes happen.  I don't have a stock baseline dyno pull to compare to, but I the numbers from a 1938 Ford I have with a stock engine would be pretty close.

Regarding the alternator, it's been "temporary" since 2011.  It's a quick, cheap, easy way to support a 12V conversion.  As stated above, I'm trying to stay period correct, so I'll either convert a generator to 12V or get one of those expensive alternators that looks like a generator. When I did the build, they didn't make one of those alternators that could also mount the fan.  I think they do now.  I've never had cooling problems and hope I won't.  I'd really like to keep the fan (like the brakes) mechanical.

And the heads are off.  It was a slow and creepy job.  We pulled the intake manifold to get better access.  It needed to come off anyway to deal with the valves.  For the head removal, we first whacked a putty knife in between the heads and block as far as we could to break the gasket seal the best we could.  That was about 30 minutes of really boring work.  Then, we slowly wedged the heads up with low ramp chisels, pry bars, and big screwdrivers.  Another 30 minutes of work, fairly physical, and a little creepy as we worried what we were damaging.  Turns out we worry too much, everything was fine when the heads came loose. 

With the heads off, we got the good news/bad news.  For cylinder 8, which had 15 psi of compression, I was expecting a badly burned exhaust valve.  It wasn't burned, it just wasn't adjusted right and isn't closing all the way.  I could easily slip a piece of paper between the valve and the seat.  That will be an easy and cheap fix.  Good news.

Cylinder 5, which I figured would be a slightly burned exhaust valve because it still had 60 psi, was the bad news.  Apparently, the engine had been stored with water on top of the piston for awhile.  There are deep pits in the cylinder walls--like maybe 1/8".  A sleeve is the only fix, I think.

So, time for another numbered list.  Here are the options I'm considering:

1. Fixing it right by pulling the engine, disassembling, sending it to the machine shop, getting it sleeved, fixing anything else, and putting it back together.  Basically something close to a full rebuild.  Which will then turn into some porting, more cam, and a more radical (and expensive) engine that may make 120HP at the wheels. 
2. Finding another used engine, keeping the costs down, but rolling the dice.  I actually have an 8BA flathead (which is generally considered the most desireable flathead) that I was told is just fine, so I could swap that in with a few more mods.  Or I could find another 1940ish used engine from a friend or contact.
3. Fix cylinder 8 (cheap and easy) and live with cylinder 5, then put it back together and see how long it lasts.  Since this truck only sees a few hundred miles per year, it could last a very long time.  I'd have a 7-1/2 cylinder engine, which is better than the 6-1/2 cylinder engine it's had for the past few years.  As an aside, I've dynoed a Miata with a dead cylinder (30 psi or so) and an Alfa Spider 1800 with a similar dead cylinder.  In both cases, I was surprised that the power losses in each case were only about 5 HP on about 100 HP at the wheels.  So maybe 7-1/2 cylinders won't be down too much on power. 

I'd never recommend option 3 to a customer, but the cobbler's kids have the worst shoes, so I will likely go that route for myself.  Plus, I like to use my own vehicles for test beds and I am curious how long it will last.  If I go that route, I'll be watching the compression numbers carefully in that cylinder to see how fast/slow they deteriorate.  If I do option 3, I'm still going do heads etc..

So, the internet always brings opinions and I've been sharing mine.  What say the hive?  Am I a hack if I pick option 3?

In reply to Carl Heideman :

I understand and hope you didn't feel I pushed those Buick drums to hard.  I completely agree with you regarding Hot Rods, they are built with your heart.  
You do  your mechanical brakes. Good for you.  

I know how sensitive the linkage is which is why I resorted to lubricating with anti seize almost every week.  But I swear if I made 4 right turn stops I could feel it start to pull.  
As far as linings go, I think I tried every one available both rivet on and bonded. Back in those days I'd just hold my breath when I'd arc the linings to match the new drum diameter. It's a Miracle I didn't wind up with long cancer.  
One  thing I really like about juice brakes is their self adjusting and dual servo wheel cylinders.  Especially   The Buick conversions. For some reason I always got those just right.  
The  Echidna's all had finned cast iron drum brakes ( they owned a foundry) but those drums were long gone. I put Buick drums on Jerry Halverson's Echidna  and get was even able to stop with Augie Pabst's Scarab  at Elkhart Lake which had the king of drum brakes.  

Sorry,  like I said please keep on using mechanical linkage. We need to pass those skills down to the younger generations. A lot of cars will be worse off if those skills disappear.  

Carl Heideman said:

And the heads are off.  It was a slow and creepy job.  We pulled the intake manifold to get better access.  It needed to come off anyway to deal with the valves.  For the head removal, we first whacked a putty knife in between the heads and block as far as we could to break the gasket seal the best we could.  That was about 30 minutes of really boring work.  Then, we slowly wedged the heads up with low ramp chisels, pry bars, and big screwdrivers.  Another 30 minutes of work, fairly physical, and a little creepy as we worried what we were damaging.  Turns out we worry too much, everything was fine when the heads came loose. 

With the heads off, we got the good news/bad news.  For cylinder 8, which had 15 psi of compression, I was expecting a badly burned exhaust valve.  It wasn't burned, it just wasn't adjusted right and isn't closing all the way.  I could easily slip a piece of paper between the valve and the seat.  That will be an easy and cheap fix.  Good news.

Cylinder 5, which I figured would be a slightly burned exhaust valve because it still had 60 psi, was the bad news.  Apparently, the engine had been stored with water on top of the piston for awhile.  There are deep pits in the cylinder walls--like maybe 1/8".  A sleeve is the only fix, I think.

So, time for another numbered list.  Here are the options I'm considering:

1. Fixing it right by pulling the engine, disassembling, sending it to the machine shop, getting it sleeved, fixing anything else, and putting it back together.  Basically something close to a full rebuild.  Which will then turn into some porting, more cam, and a more radical (and expensive) engine that may make 120HP at the wheels. 
2. Finding another used engine, keeping the costs down, but rolling the dice.  I actually have an 8BA flathead (which is generally considered the most desireable flathead) that I was told is just fine, so I could swap that in with a few more mods.  Or I could find another 1940ish used engine from a friend or contact.
3. Fix cylinder 8 (cheap and easy) and live with cylinder 5, then put it back together and see how long it lasts.  Since this truck only sees a few hundred miles per year, it could last a very long time.  I'd have a 7-1/2 cylinder engine, which is better than the 6-1/2 cylinder engine it's had for the past few years.  As an aside, I've dynoed a Miata with a dead cylinder (30 psi or so) and an Alfa Spider 1800 with a similar dead cylinder.  In both cases, I was surprised that the power losses in each case were only about 5 HP on about 100 HP at the wheels.  So maybe 7-1/2 cylinders won't be down too much on power. 

I'd never recommend option 3 to a customer, but the cobbler's kids have the worst shoes, so I will likely go that route for myself.  Plus, I like to use my own vehicles for test beds and I am curious how long it will last.  If I go that route, I'll be watching the compression numbers carefully in that cylinder to see how fast/slow they deteriorate.  If I do option 3, I'm still going do heads etc..

So, the internet always brings opinions and I've been sharing mine.  What say the hive?  Am I a hack if I pick option 3?

Go for it cobbler. You have other priorities.  Besides what if you got tired of your 8BA  and decided to trade it for say a Jag V12 to polish up and display?  

Thanks Frenchyd, we're on the same page, I was just explaining why I stuck with mechanicals for this car.  I totally agree with you about self-actuating drum brakes (which is what I think you're referring to with dual servo).  The pedal effort is wonderfully low for those.   As an example, we've tested 4 wheel drum brake MGA 1500s against disc/drum MGA 1600s.  The drum brake cars will stop better with less pedal effort until about 5 hard stops, then they fade.  The discs/drum cars then have the advantage.  (Still fearing I've lost AngryCovair's approval.) 

Carl Heideman said:

So, about the brakes...   

In my experience and opinion, how the components are selected, setup, and adjusted is usually a bigger factor in how effective they are than whether they are disk, drum, big or little... 

I'm in the camp that if you can lock up all four tires, you don't need better brakes, you need better tires...   

And I hope AngryCorvair agrees with me, at least in principle!

Yeah, we're good.  ;-)

srsly, I hope 2020 is the year I get to visit Eclectic. I admire what you do and how you do it.

Carl Heideman said:

And the heads are off.  It was a slow and creepy job.  We pulled the intake manifold to get better access.  It needed to come off anyway to deal with the valves.  For the head removal, we first whacked a putty knife in between the heads and block as far as we could to break the gasket seal the best we could.  That was about 30 minutes of really boring work.  Then, we slowly wedged the heads up with low ramp chisels, pry bars, and big screwdrivers.  Another 30 minutes of work, fairly physical, and a little creepy as we worried what we were damaging.  Turns out we worry too much, everything was fine when the heads came loose. 

With the heads off, we got the good news/bad news.  For cylinder 8, which had 15 psi of compression, I was expecting a badly burned exhaust valve.  It wasn't burned, it just wasn't adjusted right and isn't closing all the way.  I could easily slip a piece of paper between the valve and the seat.  That will be an easy and cheap fix.  Good news.

Cylinder 5, which I figured would be a slightly burned exhaust valve because it still had 60 psi, was the bad news.  Apparently, the engine had been stored with water on top of the piston for awhile.  There are deep pits in the cylinder walls--like maybe 1/8".  A sleeve is the only fix, I think.

So, time for another numbered list.  Here are the options I'm considering:

1. Fixing it right by pulling the engine, disassembling, sending it to the machine shop, getting it sleeved, fixing anything else, and putting it back together.  Basically something close to a full rebuild.  Which will then turn into some porting, more cam, and a more radical (and expensive) engine that may make 120HP at the wheels. 
2. Finding another used engine, keeping the costs down, but rolling the dice.  I actually have an 8BA flathead (which is generally considered the most desireable flathead) that I was told is just fine, so I could swap that in with a few more mods.  Or I could find another 1940ish used engine from a friend or contact.
3. Fix cylinder 8 (cheap and easy) and live with cylinder 5, then put it back together and see how long it lasts.  Since this truck only sees a few hundred miles per year, it could last a very long time.  I'd have a 7-1/2 cylinder engine, which is better than the 6-1/2 cylinder engine it's had for the past few years.  As an aside, I've dynoed a Miata with a dead cylinder (30 psi or so) and an Alfa Spider 1800 with a similar dead cylinder.  In both cases, I was surprised that the power losses in each case were only about 5 HP on about 100 HP at the wheels.  So maybe 7-1/2 cylinders won't be down too much on power. 

I'd never recommend option 3 to a customer, but the cobbler's kids have the worst shoes, so I will likely go that route for myself.  Plus, I like to use my own vehicles for test beds and I am curious how long it will last.  If I go that route, I'll be watching the compression numbers carefully in that cylinder to see how fast/slow they deteriorate.  If I do option 3, I'm still going do heads etc..

So, the internet always brings opinions and I've been sharing mine.  What say the hive?  Am I a hack if I pick option 3?

I know it is Not Recomended, but is there any chance you could get #5 bored out enough to clean up the water damage and fit an oversize piston?  Seems like that might get the compression numbers closer to equal.

I vote full rebuild. God know's where the parts availability will be in 10 years, and I'm not sure what the long-term ramifications will be with that half-cylinder kinda working.

I get the issue with brakes.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Actually parts availability for flatheads is good.  You can buy new crankshafts with shell bearings for both rods and mains. ( no more poured Babbitt)  Brand new H beam connecting rods  bigger oil pumps, camshafts, better timing gear,  etc.  forged or cast pistons, valves, oversized valves, springs,  lifters, water pumps,  all quality products made in China  well accepted and durable. 
Plus aftermarket heads, intakes, new carburetors, reproductions of the vintage SCOT  supercharger,  distributors  ( both styles), flywheels, clutch assemblies, adapters for 5 speeds. Etc. 

With  the interest in vintage stye hot rods, companies like H&H have their books full of rebuilds, even to the point of making a "crate" version. 
 
Since the French bought the rights to produce the Flathead, they made some improvements while keeping the basic architecture and those castings have been steadily been adding the the supply.  

In reply to frenchyd :

Frenchyd is right about availability.  You can even get billet aluminum blocks.  It's crazy what people will do to make 250-300 HP from these lumps.

I say sleeve that cylinder, and find a 12 volt generator.  Alternators on flatheads just aren't right.    Generators work just fine if you don't have a ton of electrical loads, I've run cars with them all my life without a problem.

In reply to stuart in mn :

Trouble is it's never just a sleeve. Once you open that can of worms, you know something you don't want will be crawling out.