FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

What the berkeley is going on in here...

Oh, this E36 M3 is crazy...

so did you sell your soul to the devil to gain these skills a long time ago or its was it a recent transaction?

Oh my.....

This is pretty awesome. This is obviously on a different level than me, financially speaking. But, divide by 20 and it would make sense for me. I wouldn't hack up a $60K Ferrari, but I would hack up a $5K car. 

I owned 2 Ferraris, a 1995 348 Spyder and a 1995 F355 Spyder. The second one had a  disassembled interior and no title when I bought it for $29K. I fixed it, put 360 wheels on it and got it titled. Drove it for a year and put 5K miles on it and sold it for $43K, still super cheap for a 355. I did timing belts on each car. Parts are pretty expensive, but it's just nuts and bolts when it comes right down to it. 

Here is a picture of my 355 after it was running and driving. And a picture of it with 2 of my low dollar projects,  my mid engine turbo VW cabriolet and my shortbed Dodge diesel.

So whats the day gig?

Pete

FunkyCricket said:

I got nothing: look, i found this v12 in the junk yard (like, how even.. junk... my ass... anyway, i digress), then.. hm... the engineers were wrong, so I'm just going to fix it, by chopping it up. This place attracts all kinds. I'm am following, this is amazing. you rock on with your bad self!

also, the ramp on that cam! that's a bit on the aggressive side. I want to hear what that sounds like!

There are a couple junk...salvage yards that deal in this kind of stuff, I normally use GT parts in AZ.

I did spend quite a bit of time on the redesign...and it turns out I am an engineer ;)

Its not running right yet, but I did have it sort of running....lots of teething pains as you my image:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cOeKkw_0JI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03hto9oANvk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz-Oj4xJi2w

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Those TR heads must be a shocking improvement in performance over the 400i heads... I'm surprised there wasn't some other donor that would get you 4 valves per hole that were closer to a bolt on.  Or is this a case of "these were the parts that were available for relatively low cost so the effort is worth it"?

A lot there. 

Honestly this project mostly represents a complete lack of planning.  I knew that 4V 308 heads will pretty much bolt straight onto a 308 2V block.  I knew the same was true for TR heads on a 2V boxer block...so I ASSumed it was also ture thagt the 2V V12 blocks shared the bolt pattern and bought the block and heads....yeah it wasn't true but I already owned the parts....the newer 456/550 V12 is just too long to fit between the wheels......so......proceed.

The TR heads stock don't flow  whole lot more than the 400 heads.  the 400 makes something like 345hp, the TR 390 but a lot of that is the mild polution cams just work better with 4V.  In the 308s the 4V head flow EXACTLY the same as the 2v heads and the 2Vi engine ues that same injection and cams as the 4v...but a 2Vi is about 195hp, and a qv is 235hp, more set area sooner effect.

For this engine fthe stock TR heads were reworked from 94cfm@10" with just a velocity stack to 156 with the full inkate and TB in place.  Then I added a whole lot more aggressive ramps to the cams without adding a lot of duration (240@.050" vs 220@.050).  The result is a lot more hp potentail.in an engine that at least theorecially should idle.

Sparkydog said:

I have a question - after you did so much welding on all that glorious aluminum did you need to do any annealing and re-heat treat anything?

yeah....should and did are different.  For sure there is an obvious difference cutting near weld vs cuttin an inch or 2 way. so for sure the metl is weaker near the welds.  But for the most part the wall thickness is about stiffness or what can be cast more than it is about stregnth.  For the head stud seatign area I made the new studs as long as I dared and when from a 14x1.5 to a 14x2 to get as much bit into the weld and soft metal as possible.....and they seem to be holding.

I did warp the bajesus out of the block and heads.  On the block the deck shruck causing abotu a 0.025" bow down in the main bearings but that meant I had metal I could remove so I set it up in the mill to rough it stright then had it properly line-bored.

On the face of the block i had to build it up a little to get it flat and square and in the correct location

In the bores.....well I want to make them bigger anyway :)  its now an 86mm bore instead of 81mm and uses a sleeve design that is much lighter similar to the 346/355/360..mine on the right 348 on the right.

The heads were more a problem because I had to add metal to the bearing areas to get them straight and was able to borrow a reamer to get them to size

carwhisperer said:

This is pretty awesome. This is obviously on a different level than me, financially speaking. But, divide by 20 and it would make sense for me. I wouldn't hack up a $60K Ferrari, but I would hack up a $5K car. 

It was only a 25k car when I bought it and I parted out the last engine (600hp, 308 supercharged at 24psi) for about $15k. My time is free so 100s of hours of free so not all that bad.  

I take a nap and a freaking work of art shows up on the board. Very nice. 

NOHOME said:

So whats the day gig?

 

Pete

R&D engineer, way back I worked nights as a prototype machinist 

Amazing.

That's it. Grm is over. Close up shop. 

Another Ferrari V12 engine swap project! Dude, couldn't you try to be a little more creative? ;)

This is probably one of the most epic displays of machine work and hot rodding I have ever seen!

amazing work dude!

I feel so ordinary.

I had a feeling when you were converting my 3.0 / 3.4 to EFI that there was a mad genius behind that milling machine. 

Fantastic work so glad you continued this project.

Glad to see this thread!

Holy crap! This thread is winning.

Wow.  Just.... Wow.

This thread is like if Mickey Thompson got in a bar fight with Enzo Ferrari over engine design.

And here I thought I was crazy to stick a toyota gt4 gearbox in an awd mazda rallycar. But no. That job is..  well, filling up with gas compared to this.  You, friend Mike, have I think the nuttiest build thread I can recall. I hereby subscribe, to bask in all its glory.  

This is an awesome build and we are all jealous. As I finish my turbocharged miata engined Spitfire and start reworking the rear suspension of my Rover V8 powered TR4A, I am trying to comprehend doing a V12 engine swap on a Ferrari 308 and having to weld and machine my Testarossa heads to fit the block. That is my fantasy project, nice work will be following this closely and playing the powerball because you "never know"