FREE fiat x1/9 carcass with title - Detriot

In reply to wheelsmithy :

My mounts are all energy suspension leaf spring shackle bushings inside regular seamed tube the Neon stuff seemed huge, floppy and was shot anyway. Lots of ways to do it within challenge budget that will still be way better than what the donor has. 

Axles are certainly not noticeably offset from hub centerline, my goal was to get them to line up. It should be a slam dunk for your setup. Our trans axles aren't the same but I believe that they put the axles in the same location relative to crank center line. 
 

I am by no means a fwd dodge expert (feel free to chime in if you are one) but I am pretty sure that you can get rid of a lot of the extra height by going to a 2.0 DOHC Neon intake instead of the one from your donor. I looked at the possibility of going to a 2.4 at some point in mine. The 2.4 is a taller deck but most of the real difference is that the PTGT has intake over the head as I recall. The 2.0 DOHC and 2.4 Heads will interchange (to some degree at least).   I know that my cam sprockets say 2.0 on one side and 2.4 on the other. They are flipped depending on whether or not they need to be inboard (2.0) or outboard (2.4) to compensate for the extra length of the balance shaft drive. That said, a custom cover may be cheaper/ easier. 

I have a dohc 1st gen intake if you need one.

1st and 2nd gen transaxle are used in both generations of neon swapping, so i would think axle centerline is the same.

Input greatly appreciated, fellas.

Yep, the PT has the taller 2.4, as well as the intake over the valve cover gasket.

Mainly for challenge budget, I was thinking of keeping the engine, ECU, intake, kind of the whole shebang as is. 

Current budget is shell-$0

Wheels -$250

MR2 suspension -roughly $260

PTGT- $900

So, hopefully, I can get this all to work together for the remaining $590 Approx.

You two are exactly the guys whose brains I need to pick. Gonna weld axles for challenge. I figure that dictates axle loops a la driveshaft loops like Michael did on his miata. 

All wisdom and offers are greatly appreciated, however, K.I.S.S. is the name of the game here.

Michael, I may be interested in that 3.55:1 transmission you have, if it is "extra" (ie, you don't have plans for it), I don't know what to think about the intake. Will it jive with the factory ECU? Does the PT intake flow better? Will it be Too tall? Gotta get the lump in the car, and start finding out. Regardless, your generosity is wickedawesome.

In reply to wheelsmithy :

You have more budget room than you think if you are willing to put in the work to part out some of the valuable bits that remain on the PT.  I think you can zero it out with some strategic e-bay parts selling.  Current rules allow up to $1,000 in recoup.

In reply to Indy-Guy :

I thought I could only do $450 on the donor, since it was $900 buy in.

Conversationally, I found out the PTGT gets a Getrag 288S transaxle with 3.29:1 final drive, and looks like tighter gear ratios than the NV T850 found in SRT-4s (3.5:1 final drive). It also appears shift linkage is different, as are axles. The SRT-4 stuff swaps with other Neon stuff. PTGT cannot say the same. So, Duster, that probably means a no-go on your 3.55, though appreciated. On the upside, the Getrag is from European Benz vans, and pretty tough. LSDs are available (post Challenge), if pricey.

Also, GoLucky, thank you for the clarification on engine mounts. I saw you used poly shackle bushings and steel pipe, but was unsure as to weather any of the linkage stayed. I've used similar stuff before. I don't suppose you have a part# and I.D on the pipe you used. Again, Thanks for letting me crib

As far as the srt4/ptgt/1st gen interchangeable stuff, ill have to bow out on that. I know bits and piecws, but nothing like what i feel i should to be a real help.

Ill see if i can roust professor brap from hibernation for you. Hes a freaking encyclopedia of this stuff.

Let me get home. Ill write you the book.

Recoup limit is 1000 total, (which happens to be half of 2000). You cannot recoup more than purchase price of any given item.

So yeah, if you haven't recouped any yet, you can recoup up to 900 on the ptgt 

okey..... Ill keep it simple as I can from what I can see. 

What I would do: use ptgt motor, dohc or srt intake mani, PTGT engine harness and ecu, you can use the pt get trans and axles, its the same width as a neon or SRT axle end to axle end, its a BIG trans and shifts like a truck.  

If you have any deeper questions feel free to ask, Im typing this as im at a rest stop, so sorry for just skimming, sorry. 

In reply to wheelsmithy :

Glad to help if I can  

The bushings I got are a 2004 bushing. The kit is 9.9489. The tubing that fits is 1.75" 1/8 wall that I just used today as a seal press in my transmission overhaul. https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/BUSHING.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiArdLvBRCrARIsAGhB_sz1pgtI5eRdt04kQsyUb3xRuv6m-V5q9FqxHKrNZ-nLOKD7AP_CNxEaAlF8EALw_wcB

I am pretty sure that these are the same bushing but cheap and sold individually. For drivetrain mounts to save $ you can buy 3/4 tube to use as your steel spacers and it will be fine since there is no rotation required. 

I used what I did because that is what the off road fab  shop in town had on hand right across the street from the steel supply place. It was more about the convenience than anything else. Definitely overkill. You can certainly use something smaller. Energy suspension has a universal bushing section on their site that makes it pretty easy to pick something that will work with the tubing I.D. You want to use. 
 

EDIT: tubing is 1.75" 0.95 wall. I measured after the fact. 

Thanks everybody. You are all most helpful.

It makes sense that the transmission shifts like a truck. I wish I could drive a stock PTGT in anger before doing all this. Guess I'll get it out and start measuring. The 3.29 final drive is nice, but maybe a neon 3.55 is the way to go. 

Go Lucky-perfect. I did the exact same thing some years ago on another project, and still have the parts laying around. I'll either buy what you did, or use that as a way to find fair market value. Maybe turn down some delrin. I like overkill.

For a turbo motor in a Neon, 3.55 is the jam, na cars 3.94s are the jam. 

In reply to Professor_Brap :

Ok, now we're talking. Stock PTGT tire is a 205/50/17 as best I can tell, which gives a 25" tall tire.

I'm running 15" wheels. 22.6" height for 195/50/15s, 23" for 205/50 15s, 23.8" for 225/50/15s, which is about my max.

Looks like Neon SRT-4 is 205/50/17, also. 

So, seems to me, the 3.3:1 would get me in the ballpark with my shorter tire choice. Might be winding out on the highway with 3.5:1?

22.5" vs 25" tall tires is about a 10% difference unless I miss my calculations.

3.3 vs 3.5 is closer to 5% difference.

I feel with light weight, and 245 ft/lbs, maybe should keep it leggy.

Forgive me, I'm rambling. Too much coffee. I'd better get to work.  

In reply to wheelsmithy :

You know it can also be solid mounts, because racecar. Real cheap and easy.  

205/50r15 a worked over NA 2.4 Neon with a 3.94 is zippie

My GT Crusier 5 speed with 245/50r17s makes it feel a touch tall on gearing side of things. 

The 205/50 is the ticket pretty much community wise. 

Those wheels you picked up earlier will mount on the PT GT hubs?

Or, are you going to perform some surgery on the running gear?

In reply to RandolphCarter :

What wheels?

Professor_Brap said:

In reply to RandolphCarter :

What wheels?

Nope, but the plan is AW11 MR2 suspension/hubs/brakes/struts at 4 corners. Not sure the suspension on the PTGT isn't shot anyway. The wreck broke both driver side wheels, ripping the rear hub completely off, and shattering the wheel.

In other news, today I got the beast off the trailer.

First thing was to build one of my patented sleds.

I had to build it under the car, and it was SKETCHY jacking this thing up.

I sawzalled the rear bumper cover so I could use the handyman jack of death.

Luckily, a buddy dropped by with his F-250, which has a winch, and made all this lots easier.

I rolled it on PVC, used floor jacks, a come-along, a 6' bar, the handy man, and a bunch of swearing.

Eventually, I got it in the garage.

Now to get to work. 

Gratuitous engine shot:

Hell yeah, this is a much better plan. Honestly you lost more in time than money. If it makes you feel better, I spent a summer and $700 rebuilding and souping up an engine for a Challenge car, only to blow it up 3 weeks before the Challenge. Good luck with the swap.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Yeah, but even this approach will save time. I don't have to totally fabricate frame rails, a cradle to carry the engine and suspension pick up points, and hopefully, don't need to totally rebuild this engine. I'm ashamed to say I haven't even started it yet. Better get my rectum in gear.

And no, it doesn't make me feel better that your engine blew up. I'd never revel in another's pain. Then again, I never felt bad. This E36 M3 is just the breaks. It's supposed to be a challenge.

A few nights of stripping has me here:

, Wait, HERE:

I'm carefully labeling everything, and trying to get stuff out whole, if possible for future recoup. I also ordered a very expensive factory manual, and lined the dirt part of my basement with plastic sheeting to store parts. 

Edit: I'm tired of looking for this and only having time to read a few pages. Wae's SRT-4 Swap

Proof of a Christmas Miracle:

First start was a success.

The dash is properly festive in honor of the season.

Almost 250k miles. Do these things run that long?

I got bags of tags intended for nursery use. They were supposed to be plastic, but seem to be tough paper. Whatever. They have to work better than masking tape and a pen.

And finally, I am quite jealous of all you guys who find >$20 and drugs in your challenge cars. The Fiat was zero (no floors), and this one had $0.51 and a bunch of Taco Bell reciepts. 

Guess I shouldn't complain. The Fiat WAS free.

Yeah, no negative budget for a free car.... tends to be nothing to recoup by the point they're free.....

The srt4 has been known to hit 300k without issue

Just some ideas for the future...

The intercooler could go here,

Here,

Here,

Or up front with an air to water setup (way too pricey for the Challenge).

Thanks to forum member KB58 for doing all the work so I can copy and learn. https://midlana.com/

So, my question to anyone in the know: how long can charge pipes to and from the intercooler be before they are TOO long? My guess is they have to be pretty close.

Congrats on getting the donor started!

Now it's just cut and paste (LOL)

10 Months until the Challenge.  You can do it