Going Italian - Fiat 850 Spider

Was looking for something to play with over the Spring-Summer and this dropped in my lap. Priced too low not to purchase it on the spot.

Priced right, running and driving. Have a short list of items to take care of, sagging doors, brakes need work, some interior work and needs a top. Very minor rust, battery box being the the worst piece. Underneath is very solid, floors and structure is great, car has had lots of nice period work done (lowered, Koni shocks, camber compensator, engine mods). Plans are to strip and paint it, clean up the interior, add a top and go play with it this summer.

Nice!

Just so you know. The door hinges are Bertone, not Fiat so the Alfa GTV bushing and pin kits are a direct fit. As far as I know, no one offers hinge kits for the 850. I had to figure that out by having both cars next to each other. 

https://centerlinealfa.com/catalog/door-hinge-repair-kit-gtv

The original plastic bushings in the hinges will have crumbled into nothing. 

Looks like the engine tins are still in place! That is amazing, most are long gone and they are very necessary to keep the motor cool.

Another piece that goes AWOL over the years is the drip tray under the carb. That DIC30 has some passages in the base plate, so that tray stops vacuum leaks.

The remote oil filter usually means the block was modified for "full flow center main" oil path. That is a good thing.

Count the bolts holding the water pump to the block. Three in a triangle means 817cc or 843cc. Four bolts in a squareish layout is 903cc. Three with the bottom offset towards the crank pulley side is the FWD block and could be up to 1 liter. None of these cars have their original motors anymore. Sometimes you get treated with a good 'un.

GRM did an article about these in the 90's. Do NOT follow the advice laid out in that article about reversing the air flow over the radiator. It flat out doesn't work. Not without changes to the body and structure of the cars. 

If you need any parts, let me know. I have a LOT of stuff laying around and have lots of connections and recommendations of vendors to use and avoid. 

Those can be great fun. A friend used to race them (a LONG time ago) and I seem to recall that they were more than a match for cars like Sprites and MGs. Swingaarm axle if I recall. I think that he had something real sophisticated like chains () to keep the rear from jacking too much. 

Love the color!

Super cool, you almost never see those any more.  The one thing I remember about them is that the taillights are the same as the Lamborghini Miura, as are the headlights on the pre-68 cars.    

I would have to take that home too! In for updates 

Wow that looks nice! I always wanted one but I don't think many survived life in the rust belt.

In for the build log!!

In reply to Trent :

Thanks Trent, I'll be putting together a list of parts needed, top frame is one of the first things and figuring out if I can find a decent dash and center console, as the one on the car is all cut up for speakers on top. They all crack, so I may just have to follow the Youtube videos and try to fix it.

In reply to XLR99 (Forum Supporter) :

Yes, most have rusted away. Story here is some guy in SC had 10 in a warehouse, this was one of them that was protected from the weather. We had it up on a lift, underside is in good shape, so one of the few that survived.

Cool!

Welcome to the Fiat community. That is really sweet, and needs to stay some bright blue, not the original white. Great wheels too. 

Yeah, definitely dig the color. I see something very similar show up on Abarths and Simcas occasionally.

Paint code says 434 on the engine tag, interior, trunk and underneath are also the same blue, but the engine compartment is white? I'll learn more, but it will stay the same blue, I like it too!

So in talking with Trent and others on how to hop these things up a bit, been going down the Google rabbit hole. I have only driven the car around the yard of the previous owner so have no idea of what has been done to the engine, except that it has had some obvious changes to the oiling system, exhaust and unknown engine upgrades if any. My goal is not to swap the motor on this car, but to make it more usable in the real world, so adding 25 HP would be a huge upgrade over stock. Turbo is the obvious choice, but more complicated, but a small compact supercharger seems like the easy button. Looks like an AMR500 Supercharger, Weber carb and a programable 123Distributor might give me what I need without going too crazy.

This one is fuel injected, but I prefer the simplicy of the single Weber 40DCOE.

Trent said:

Nice!

Just so you know. The door hinges are Bertone, not Fiat so the Alfa GTV bushing and pin kits are a direct fit. As far as I know, no one offers hinge kits for the 850. I had to figure that out by having both cars next to each other. 

https://centerlinealfa.com/catalog/door-hinge-repair-kit-gtv

The original plastic bushings in the hinges will have crumbled into nothing. 

Looks like the engine tins are still in place! That is amazing, most are long gone and they are very necessary to keep the motor cool.

Another piece that goes AWOL over the years is the drip tray under the carb. That DIC30 has some passages in the base plate, so that tray stops vacuum leaks.

The remote oil filter usually means the block was modified for "full flow center main" oil path. That is a good thing.

Count the bolts holding the water pump to the block. Three in a triangle means 817cc or 843cc. Four bolts in a squareish layout is 903cc. Three with the bottom offset towards the crank pulley side is the FWD block and could be up to 1 liter. None of these cars have their original motors anymore. Sometimes you get treated with a good 'un.

GRM did an article about these in the 90's. Do NOT follow the advice laid out in that article about reversing the air flow over the radiator. It flat out doesn't work. Not without changes to the body and structure of the cars. 

 

If you need any parts, let me know. I have a LOT of stuff laying around and have lots of connections and recommendations of vendors to use and avoid. 

I picked up the car last weekend, been too cold to even pull it out of the trailer. I did look at the engine water pump, it has 4 bolts, so this is a 903. Car runs but I'll do a compression check to get an idea of how health the motor is. Any way to add more capacity, stoker crank or bigger bore?

The blocks can be offset bored to 67.2mm from 65mm to go up to a massive 964cc. I think i might still have a set of 67mm pistons somewhere .

The Autobianchi A112 Abarth had a 74mm stroke instead of the 903cc 68mm but that crank won't fit into the 903 block. The journals on those cranks are huge!

I kinda wish there were still folks doing welded strokers. 

Anyway, all these reasons are why I went forced induction. 

Oh yeah. In case you weren't already aware. The Fiat 850 is one of the automotive oddities in that the engine rotates counter clockwise. 

It makes swapping in a lot of motors problematic. Unless you swap transaxles

A buddy from Argentina was looking to swap a reverse rotation box into a 500 we were working on so he could run the BIG motor (903). He had some folks down south that were going to ship him parts. That was almost 20 years ago.

By the way, 850s are a dreamy car to cruise in. Top gear and relatively low revs with a really light car is so relaxing. Dont expect acceleration, just enjoy the front end float.

In reply to stafford1500 :

This one has been played with by someone, so lowered suspension, koni shocks, camber compensator, so not sure how it will ride, lots to discover this spring.

So put the car in the garage in the house as I need the trailer next weekend. Started up just fine, but brakes are binding badly and with only 50 HP, was not moving well under it's own power.  I ordered a complete set of front and rear brake components and a new master cylinder so should be rolling smoothly in a few weeks.

Engine does not want to rev freely, so will need to investigate why. Also shifter is very vague, so I assume the linkages are all worn out  so will need to look at that as well. Goal is to get new tires, brakes and get it running well before dealing with the cosmetics.

As enthusiasts, there are a lot of cars that we know to appreciate but largely go unnoticed by the general population.

This is not one of those cars. Everyone who sees a Fiat 850 in a fun color that pops thinks it is cool.

Shift linkage on an eight and a half is crazy simple. There is really only two items to go wrong and that is the shift coupler at the transaxle, and the bushing at the bottom of the lever

This little lolipop is just two pieces of steel with a bonded rubber pad in the middle. The bolts that connect it to the shift rod in the transmission are often loose and the rubber delaminating from the steel is common.  You can drill through it and bolt it back together in a pinch.

The bushing at the lever is obvious.

Midwest Bayless has both for like $25 bones.
 

Thanks Trent, just added to my order with Bayless for the brake parts.

Car will definitely be repainted in the stock blue, I like it too!

Have a Fiat repair guy close to me. He used to race these and 124 coupes back in the 70's and 80's. His home shop is full of odd little engine projects he's done over the years. I need to stop by sometime soon. I'll see what he might have as far as go fast parts for the 903. 

Trent said:

The blocks can be offset bored to 67.2mm from 65mm to go up to a massive 964cc. I think i might still have a set of 67mm pistons somewhere .

The Autobianchi A112 Abarth had a 74mm stroke instead of the 903cc 68mm but that crank won't fit into the 903 block. The journals on those cranks are huge!

I kinda wish there were still folks doing welded strokers. 

Anyway, all these reasons are why I went forced induction. 

 

Oh yeah. In case you weren't already aware. The Fiat 850 is one of the automotive oddities in that the engine rotates counter clockwise. 

It makes swapping in a lot of motors problematic. Unless you swap transaxles

Beemer K bike! Probably WAY to big, but, I like being odd!

In reply to dherr (Forum Supporter) :

Love your new blue car! Always did think they were a better looking car than their siblings. Gave up on ever finding one that clean, that was affordable, many moon s ago. 
That Webber on the baby blower, has just made my list as one of the top 10 sexiest induction systems, I've ever seen!

I hope you do run one. WAY cool!