Grumman the Backcountry Box Van____1997 Ford E450 7.3l Power Stroke diesel

Many of us have gone through a vehicular evolution as our budget and interests change. I'm a 32 year old Leadplane Pilot for the USFS now, fighting wildfires all over the USA. Before I go into what the plan for this build is, I'd like to take a short, pictorial stroll down my ExPo vehicle memory lane. 

My first 4x4, a 1986 Ford Bronco with a 302 H.O. and EFI when I was a college student.

1909767_506911184473_703_n by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Turned into this:

1929883_526416031603_3381_n by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Next, a more fuel efficient 1984 Toyota 4Runner with a carbureted 22R that I took to flight school.

1923274_506911289263_2457_n by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Turned into this

1927665_547412045423_88_n by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Next an '03 Toyota Tundra with the excellent 2UZ-FE 4.7l V8 

25380_615851023163_449030_n by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Turned into this

66546_646003272813_6150755_n by Petrolburner, on Flickr

We wanted to extend our camping season into the winter without shivering in a tent, so we bought an Aliner.

10300530_10100589410319503_1626980053382270606_n by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Then I bought the van on the left as an experiment. It wasn't big enough so I bought the van on the right. 

10900227_10100774031297583_34866401485781470_o by Petrolburner, on Flickr

The intention was just to use the van as a toyhauler and camp in the Aliner. Then a friend and I took a trip to the Baja 1000 and opted to leave the trailer at home and I'd sleep in the van and he'd sleep in a tent. This led me to build a single person loft in the top of the van. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

The 3rd trip to Baja with Gertrude the Motovan included some time with Kathleen so I built a two person loft. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr
15403838_10101429687851593_3246367479282339102_o by Petrolburner, on Flickr
15385260_10101428810973863_2593519176761256254_o by Petrolburner, on Flickr

It's not too hard for us to climb up into the loft, I can still fit two full size dirtbikes below it and I can even stow my paddleboard on the bed and close the doors. This is really a pretty cool setup without a very big footprint. But after living in the van in Baja for over a month, I'm wanting a stove and sink that are setup and ready to use 100% of the time. A shower and ****ter would really be nice too. Boy it would sure be nice to not have to climb over all my cargo or unload everything when I need to get at one of the rarely used items. This gas V8 sure likes to downshift at the slightest uphill or headwind, I guess that's why semi trucks have big turbo diesel engines. You know what else? These van windows are a huge loss of heat and entrance for heat. I pretty much leave the Reflectix shades in all the time. Also, curved walls are a pain to insulate, panel, build cabinets against etc. A box van with great big flat walls would make life so much easier. I've been dreaming of a box van since I bought the Motovan honestly. The problem was, I had nowhere to park one or work on it. I needed to buy a house with some space. This spring I bought a house on 5 acres. It's box van time.

I saw this 1997 Ford E450 Super Duty with a 7.3 liter Power Stroke diesel and Grumman Olson aluminum box for sale by the original owners on craigslist. I even posted it to one of my other frequently browsed forums saying what a great deal it was. I wanted it, badly, but I just couldn't take on another project. Several weeks later I notice it's still for sale, and I've got room to park, the cash in the bank to buy it, and a lack of excuses not to grab it and park it at my house until I have the time to start building. I've been looking at box vans for several years, so I know this is the combination I want, and it's very rare to see for sale. The 7.3 Power Stroke is clearly the engine to pursue, for my price range anyway. Ford is the platform to start with because of the MG Metalworks 4WD kit, or another Weldtec Designs long travel 2WD kit. The Grumman Olson box is awesome because it is made of aluminum ribs with aluminum skin, as opposed to the heavy fiberglass reinforced plywood of the U-Haul boxes. It has the cabover for me to build a full time bed in. This one even has double doors in the back instead of a rollup door that rattles, leaks, and costs you headroom and ceiling lights when it's rolled up. Yes I clearly need to go test drive this van. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

I rode my XR650R over the Cascades to go check it out. The floor definitely needed to be replaced. It had 6 matching all terrain tires, 13 pages of maintenance history with frequent oil changes which is pretty important for the health of the injectors. Not too much body damage, some surface rust underneath, a huge fuel tank, 204k miles and a seller that needed the van to go away. So I bought it for what I feel was a very good deal. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

The drive home across the Cascades was so much fun! I couldn't believe how flat it cornered and how well it powered up and down the hills. The character of the motor and the sounds it made were really entertaining. I took it across some road side scales, 3750 on the front axle and 5250 on the rear for a gross weight of 9000. The 29" tall tires and short rear gears had it pretty wound up on the highway and I only got 10.6 MPG on the trip home. 

Data plate by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

I feel good about this van. I think it's the biggest I can go while still being able to run around in the dirt comfortably and park in normal parking spaces. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Interested to see how you build out the box. I've wondered about using a box truck as the starting point for a van.

Loved your Motovan build/adventure thread, so I'm definitely looking forward to where this one goes!

I like where this is headed!

A couple months ago I had a mountain biking trip planned with my brother. We were going to meet up near Anthony Lakes Ski Area and camp in the vans. The night before, as I was packing my stuff into Gertrude, she sprung a pretty good coolant leak out of the heater core. I couldn't find an easy fix like a loose hose clamp or anything, so I opted to take Grumman instead. No big deal, I wanted to put some miles on him anyway. I had been driving him back and forth to work and hadn't had any issues at all. Well I guess that's not entirely true. There's a rattle in the wall, like a loose wire mount or something in the pass through that was cut in and then covered up. Other than that, no problem taking the big box van on the trip. This also helps me get a sense on whether or not I really want to take on this project or just keep Gertrude. 

So I bailed out on getting a box van several years ago when I bought Gertrude because I didn't want to build a motorhome. A box van has to be insured and registered as a commercial vehicle or converted to a motorhome and registered and insured that way. Depending on your state, this can be easy, hard, or somewhere in between. I went in to my local DMV, told them what I was doing and she asked how long it would take to convert. I said 6 months to 2 years. So, she asked if I just wanted to convert the title right now while I was doing the transfer. Yes. Yes I would like that. Now, instead of $400 a year in commercial truck registration, I'm paying $237 for two years. Insurance was only $150 for the year. Not bad at all. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

I slapped my new plates on and hit the road. I met up with my brother and we drove up the mountain together. We just barely fit these two big girls in the same spot together. Check out the all natural front tire levelers. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Got in an evening ride. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Cooked some dinner.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Hung out with a guy that worked at the ski hill and got some intel on the trails. It got pretty chilly but there were still severe fire bans in effect. I lit the Portable Buddy Heater in the box van and we pulled our camp chairs inside and sat around it like it was our fire. Box van is cool. 

The view the next morning

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Some of the intel that we got was that we could ride to the top of the ski hill and try out their downhill bike run that wasn't quite finished. Cool. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Left camp and went to another trail head.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

On the drive home I pulled off on a dirt road to pee and had a great shot to illustrate why I don't like pulling trailers. Super easy to turn around on just a wide spot in the road. Yes this spot is actually really wide, but I can make a 3, 5, or even 9 point turn on a much narrower road if need be. Can't do that with a trailer. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

On the way home I hit 500 miles on the tank, and look how much fuel is still remaining! I love this giant fuel tank. It will be even better once I get the gearing and tuning sorted. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

The lack of cruise control sucks. Manual windows and doors not such a big deal so far. All in all a good first camping trip.

Well, I was working in my garage a few weeks ago on my Honda Insight. I recently insulated and paneled the inside with this white hardboard. It works just like a white board with dry erase markers. I made the mistake of putting a few of my various machines and their to-do list up. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

This doesn't even have my Caponord, trials bike, Gas Gas, KLX, XR650R or Kathleen's DR200 on there. It's a bit overwhelming. I think that's when I came to the realization that I just needed to sell Gertrude and remove her from my plate. Without her in the fleet, I don't have any way to haul a dirtbike or go camping. I hate to be without that ability but I also need that pressure to get going on the Grumman. 

Several people asked me to let them know when I was ready to sell Gertrude and give them a shot at it. One is a friend of mine and he and his girlfriend came to look at her Saturday morning. I explained all the good and bad things over the course of an hour or so. They took it for a drive and loved it of course. He asked, "So how soon are you ready to sell?" Well, I explained how I need to remove the floor, strip all the cross members and paint them, then install the new floor. Then I could have a useable van again, and the other steps wouldn't really take the van out of commission too badly. So, I'd like to get a new floor in within the next two weeks or at least be close to it. I started removing boards right after they left.

Over the rear wheels, the floor was coming apart on its own. 

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr


I broke out quite a bit of the floor this way. Once I started moving towards the center, the wood wasn't deteriorated. It took a lot more pressure with the jack, and when the board gave way it got pretty violent. You can see in the above photo I spilled a brand new beer like an idiot. 

The floor boards were installed with some large Torx head bolts. Those Torx heads have been filled with dirt and industrial powders and packed in over the last 20 years. I tried to blast the crud out of the Torx head with compressed air and picked at it a little with metal picks. Pretty clearly a waste of time. Even if I could get the head clean, the bolt was seized in place and would likely snap or blow the engagement of the Torx bit and I'd have to attack it with a grinder anyway. 

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

This is as far as I got the first night. 

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Might be a good time to discuss my flooring plan. I'm thinking that I'll put down some 1/2" treated plywood, and then a layer of vinyl flooring in a wood or stone pattern. I had thought about doing something different in the garage portion, but the garage portion is 8' long, that doesn't leave much floor space up front, especially after I build out the bed up front. I'll only have a couple feet of standing room up front with the bikes inside. With the bikes out of the garage, I want it to feel spacious and have some continuity. I'm going to need to do something to the bottom side of the floor near the rear wheels. I don't want it to be any lower than necessary. I don't want to build wheel well cutouts, and I don't want to lift the van any more than necessary to fit the bigger tires. I'm thinking I should just paint the underside of the floor and the cross members near the rear wheels in bedliner. That will fend off the dirt and gravel and keep out the water. 

 

There's always portal axles if you want maximum tire with minimum lift/cutting 

Paint and seal the plywood before you put them down on the floor, that will help prevent water getting in and rotting the boards, use deck paint for longetivity. Then top coat with bedliner anywhere that will be exposed to gravel/wheelspray.

Cool.

Gaunt596 said:

Paint and seal the plywood before you put them down on the floor, that will help prevent water getting in and rotting the boards, use deck paint for longetivity. Then top coat with bedliner anywhere that will be exposed to gravel/wheelspray.

Roger that on the bedliner in the wheel wells.  Even with treated plywood should I still paint it?  What kind of paint?  

Employee appreciation week is coming up at Lowe's.  That beautiful girl in the photos above works at Lowe's.  We get 20% off that week instead of the usual 10%.  I'm building a long shopping list.  What else should I add to the list?  

Awesome project with true function

Damn you... I want a box van now.  

I haven't really driven my new van much yet.  Partly because I haven't had room to park it at home until recently. Partly because since I can't have it home, I haven't bothered to insure it yet. And partly because it seems there is some sort of drain on the batteries and after sitting they are dead as door-nails.  The previous owner appears to have installed an alarm of some sort and something is effed up with the stupid stereo he installed. Both will need to go.

Well I'm voting this thread up  Subscribed

Petrolburner said:

Gaunt596 said:

Paint and seal the plywood before you put them down on the floor, that will help prevent water getting in and rotting the boards, use deck paint for longetivity. Then top coat with bedliner anywhere that will be exposed to gravel/wheelspray.

Roger that on the bedliner in the wheel wells.  Even with treated plywood should I still paint it?  What kind of paint?  

 

Employee appreciation week is coming up at Lowe's.  That beautiful girl in the photos above works at Lowe's.  We get 20% off that week instead of the usual 10%.  I'm building a long shopping list.  What else should I add to the list?  

I would use deck paint, as that's designed to be walked on, and sit out in the weather all year round. As when driving the underside of that will most likely be fairly wet. And yes, even with treated I'd still paint it. As the paint seals the wood against moisture, and will be a lot easier to clean all the road grime and salt off the painted surface, than it would be trying to clean it after it soaked into the boards.

The next night I continued with the the grinder in one hand and a fluorescent trouble light in the other.  The goggles, dust mask, and fan helped, but the smell and smoke from the wood and metal burning away was pretty intense.  I also see a lot of spark sized burn marks in my favorite hat this morning.  :(

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

All the bolt heads have been removed where necessary.  Over the rear wheels the wood is deteriorated enough that there shouldn't be much resistance.  Now I just need to drive over to burn pile with my mangled jack and get the rest of the boards out.  Then I'll burn through a bunch of cutoff wheels removing the bolts above and below the I-beam floor crossmembers.  Then a bunch of flapper discs and paint removal wheels.  

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Oh yeah, that first night of floor jack induced violence had a casualty.  The jack fell over under pressure and tweaked the frame.  I'm working in gravel and I didn't always have that piece of plywood under the jack.  I really need a concrete pad in front of my garage so I'm not working in gravel.  Actually I really need a 40'x60' machine shed with 14' tall doors and a two post lift.

The next day I finished removing the wood floor.  Now that the bolt heads were all cut, the wood came out in huge chunks.  It's a little sad that this floor was rotted, it would have looked great after a good sanding and refinishing.  

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Next I cut off all the remaining bolts that were sticking up.  I got pretty good at cutting 95% of the way through with my cutoff wheel and then breaking them off by hand so I could toss them in the garbage instead of losing them in the gravel.  

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

The work site

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Yeehaa!  One item crossed off the list!

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Today I'm taking the day off of work to attack the old frame paint and rust.  I've got two spray cans of primer to seal up the metal as I go.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

What's this thing?  An extra fuel pickup?  

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

I'm looking to put in flush mount wheel chocks like this:

On the left side of the garage I want to make another trap door with a mesh grate or something for a shower.  I just want the water to pass straight through the bottom, no tub or catch tank.  Edit:  I just had an idea.  My XR650R has a one way rubber boot on the bottom of the airbox.  Some quick searching brought me to one for a 4" drain, in Australia.  

Let's say I make a square for the shower on the left side of the garage like I mentioned.  The bottom piece of plywood stays, but the foam, top plywood and vinyl flooring come out as a plug when it's time to setup the shower.  Seal the sides with epoxy or something.  Permanent drain pan that I just remove a trap door floor plug to expose.  Put the one way drain in the bottom.  Thoughts?

With all the wood removed I took Grumman to the car wash and pressure washed the rear axle, subframe etc.  

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

I was hoping this would blast off more of the gunk and rust, but it didn't.  

Next, I used a cutoff wheel in my 4.5" angle grinder and a grinding wheel in my other angle grinder.  I cut off the remaining bolt stubs and ground them smooth.  I also used a flap disc and grinder wheel to smooth out the tops of all the subframe beams.  I was planning on doing all the rest of the subframe with wire wheels and flap discs and other spinning abrasives.  I just happened to text a picture of the project to my friend nearby and invited him to bring a wire wheel and join the party.  He called me right away, called me crazy, and invited me to bring it to his place and sand blast it.  This was a life saver.  

It was also totally miserable.  

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

I worked on it for a little bit each day for 3 days.  Blew through 450 pounds of sand. I just finished it up today.  I drove back to my place, put my goggles and respirator back on, and started blowing it all off with my leaf blower.  I was standing on the subframe and immediately started getting shocked through my boots every few seconds.  I'm not sure what was making this happen.  Static electricity from the blowing sand combined with the gas powered leaf blower ignition?  Anyway, I through down a piece of plywood and stood on that to finish the dusting.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

The hardest part about this whole endeavor was picking a place to stop.  I just wanted to blast off the whole frame, all the cross members, rear axle, rear bumper, all the outside of the box and pretty much everything else inside and out.

Cool project, I have thought about box trucks before. Quite a few do it with U-hauls, but the boxes sit lower and that could be a problem going where you are going. Will be watching this build, getting good ideas already.

How about putting sheet/diamond tread aluminum right above the wheels. You could attach it to the flooring and that would help the floor last longer. 

OK, I'm jealous!

I'm not jealous of your truck- I have one.

 I am jealous of your LIFE! 

I had a similar idea for a shower, but one issue is using it might depend some on where you happened to be parked.  If you are parked some place where using an outdoor shower isn't feasible, those same restrictions may frown on water pouring out of the bottom of the truck.  The only time when I could it being really beneficial is when you want to shower while it's raining and the water coming out of the bottom of the truck won't be as noticeable.

I want to be able to use the shower anywhere at anytime without having the care about what I might be draining on to. So now I'm researching gray water tanks...

I don't know if you've made your decision of the new floor yet, but I would strongly recommend reconsidering the 1/2" treated plywood.  Your frame members are about 30" apart, and that's just too much for 1/2" ply.  The minimum thickness should be 3/4", and I would consider tongue and groove edges.  3/4" would not be thick enough if the truck was going to be used for future load hauling.

Actually, the best product out there is probably Advantech, but people are hesitant to use it because it looks like chipboard.  But it's not.  It is highly resistant to rot and insects, tongue and groove, and has a lifetime warranty (which might not apply for a truck).  If you used Advantech and painted the bottom with bedliner, it would last forever.  I've used Advantech on a house which was exposed to the weather for over 6 months and never had to replace a single sheet (unlike plywood)

NOTE: USe Advantech brand.  Do not use a substitute.  If you are buying at Lowes, they frequently use subtitute an inferior product.

Keep up the good work! 

I know you are done with the flooring now, and this is too late, but for anyone that ever has a similar removal project, there was another way which would have probably been easier...

If you had taken a skillsaw and cut across the entire floor parallel with each frame member, on each side.  You want to leave less than 6" worth of floor board (still screwed to the frame member).  Then take a hammer and chisel and split the boards at each screw.  This would reduce the entire floor to kindling, but would be much faster, and avoid all the toxins of the grinding of the wood (which was probably impregnated with creosote, or some other such nasty).

Love what you are doing.    

Ian F said:

I had a similar idea for a shower, but one issue is using it might depend some on where you happened to be parked.  If you are parked some place where using an outdoor shower isn't feasible, those same restrictions may frown on water pouring out of the bottom of the truck.  The only time when I could it being really beneficial is when you want to shower while it's raining and the water coming out of the bottom of the truck won't be as noticeable.

I want to be able to use the shower anywhere at anytime without having the care about what I might be draining on to. So now I'm researching gray water tanks...

 You could always put a bucket under the drain. Once when we were having septic issues we had to put a bin in the bathtub to catch the water so it wouldn't go into the system. I could get very clean on less than two gallons, and this was with a house shower which flow more than RV  shower heads typically do. 

I missed the toilet plans, are you doing a casette toilet?