WhiteAndGold
WhiteAndGold New Reader
11/19/18 11:10 a.m.

This is going to be a long post to catch up on everything that has happened up till now with the build...

It was awesome to make it back to the challenge this year and I feel like I’ve been re-bit by the GRM bug.  Despite the fact that I was piloting a literal Yacht of the Land I got the competitive itch and after the concours I was feeling downright inspired. Thus when we got back to Texas it was time to sit down and flesh out some pipe dream plans I had been working on before. I want to keep things relatively simple and “cheap” so the goal is a car that comes in under 2000lbs with over 200hp. Also I want RWD mainly just for personal preference and better hoonage. With this goal in mind my buddy and I started foraging the internets for a powerplant for the new car. Also we needed a car… I had been eyeing one before I even moved down here this summer but life happened and I realized there was no way I’d have it ready for $2018 (this will become important later).

In my typical fashion of finding theoretically sound but practically unproven solutions to my problems I became fixated on the idea of a J-Series Honda engine in front of a T-5 for our powertrain. Conservative estimate based on internet and aftermarket sellers is this should be making 250hp/250ft-lb and it weighs under 400lbs fully dressed and filled with oil. Again based on my research it appears the best complete engine (that can be readily found in junkyards) is the J35A3 out of the 01-02 Acura MDX. Lucky for us there just so happened to be two of them near my friend’s house in San Antonio, in the absolute cheapest junkyard I have ever seen.

$150 + $85 core charge for any engine regardless of cylinders or aspiration method. Once we got there we found out why this place was so cheap - it is a desolate car wasteland of Mad Maxian proportions. We were lucky the engine we were pulling was at the end of a row because if it were in the middle there would be no way to get an A-frame over the piles of body panels, engines and other debris that littered every aisle. Take a moment to soak in the glory (or maybe horror) of this mess -

Thankfully the engine was really easy to pull, partly thanks to Honda actually designing for serviceability but also thanks to the lack of snow (and thus salt) in southern Texas. As a northerner, I’ve never had a better time in a junkyard than I do down here where everything isn’t rusted together or just gone thanks to rust.

You may have noticed that I haven’t mentioned a car yet, and that is because, much to the confusion of the junkyard employees who asked us where the engine was going in, we had an engine but no car yet. I was still trying to make space for another car in the garage, and decide what to actually buy. So in the meantime we got the engine partially stripped down and somewhat less greasy then, in a feat of maximum practicality, fit an entire engine, engine stand, MIG welder and tank, myself and a dog into my Fiesta for the drive back to Waco.

Suffice to say I was running ~hella flush bro~ in the rear. Back in Waco I got the engine mostly decrustified and started pulling off the harness for rearranging later.

Now comes the part where that car I mentioned earlier becomes important - I had talked to a guy about his 1979 Toyota Corolla before I even moved to TX but like I said before, the realities of time and budget forced me to take a simpler road to the 2018 Challenge with the wagon. However, these cars must be really unloved or people were just scared away by the project that would be involved in rebuilding it, so six months later it’s still up for sale. I talked to the guy again and once I had the cash in hand from selling other random crap out of the garage I went over there and picked it up.

Not the prettiest sight from the get go but all the parts (glass, interior, body panels, literally everything) is in the car and for 250 bucks you kinda have to expect some (lots of) assembly required.

Now with the car safely in the garage I spent this past weekend sorting through all the junk that was inside the car, tossing trash (there were lots of broken trim pieces, seals not worth saving, moldy seats) and sorting out the good stuff for future use or just to get core refunds down the road. I also gave it a good cleanout and probably vacuumed out several pounds of dirt, hornets nests, rocks, and bird skeletons.

On the subject of weight, since one of my (self imposed) constraints is weight, it would be nice to know what I am starting with. One of the reasons I liked the Corolla other than price was that in stock form they weighed 1900lbs wet. I figured without the engine, trans and interior we should be down around 1400-1500 lbs, but I don’t own racing scales or know anyone in the area with some.

But if you give some engineers a few beers, they come up with the darndest ideas… it turns out that while racing scales can run you upwards of 1000 bucks, a high capacity bathroom scale is only $40 on Amazon. And it turns out that 4 issues of GRM stack up to the same height as said big boy scale. Thus I give you the poor man’s racing scale - all you need is a 550lbs capacity platform scale and 12 copies of GRM or any other combination of things that are the same height as your scale. Simply set three wheels up like so:

Then set the last wheel on the scale:

Rinse and repeat for all four corners, add your weights together, and voila! A pretty decent picture of how much your car weighs, in my case 1384lbs. That includes all the glass except the rear side panels, as well as the dashboard and all the headlights/tailights. Not too shabby as far as I’m concerned. Next thing I need to do is weigh the engine so I’m not just basing my total weight off of internet numbers.

In the meantime I’m working out if a T5 is the transmission I should use as well as how I'm going to make an adapter - in my mind making the J35 a RWD engine is going to be the hardest part for a dude with a basic garage and no fab shop at his disposal. I'm also trying to figure out what rear diff to use as well as just how I should run the rear suspension. Current setup is a leaf-sprung live axle - this car was literally built like a truck. The balancing act is going to be building something that won’t rip apart in the drag that at the same time is as light as possible to meet the weight goal. Also hopefully my car is not now haunted by the bird whose grave I desecrated yesterday, but that has yet to be seen.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
11/19/18 11:16 a.m.

Holy berkeley, a liftback!  I love those things!

On the T5, the main thing that would stop me is that they shift like crap- just notchy and generally bad feeling.  Other than that, they're cheap, go nuts!

Agent98
Agent98 Reader
11/19/18 11:29 a.m.

Acura V-6

tin can 1970's toyota taco shell

zombie Bird haunting....this could be epic!

Maybe a TH350 would be easier to adapt/fit to stay under $2019. More then for the wheels/tires and suspension bits.

I used to drive a 1982 , seem to remember ultra slow steering (non R&P). Good news is these are RWD will make engine stuffing a bit easier.

 

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/19/18 12:17 p.m.

Awesome build! Wish I lived closer for this one. That junkyard is one heck of a find, and that engine sure cleaned up nicely too. What about engine management? You may need to go back and grab all the computery junk and wire harness to get it to start, unless you're going standalone. 

I'll be watching this one closely so update often!

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
11/19/18 12:51 p.m.

With ALL the space in back why put an engine up front?

HippieWagon
HippieWagon Reader
11/19/18 8:11 p.m.

In reply to GTXVette :

Thats the right kinda thinking! WhiteAndGold is a little less...insane...than myself though.

WhiteAndGold
WhiteAndGold New Reader
11/19/18 10:56 p.m.

In reply to maschinenbau :

We got the brains and all the harnesses we could while we were there - the tough part is going to be spoofing the immobilizer since there wasn't a key in the car. Thankfully the whole immobilizer system is on a detachable module in the ECU and Mike is an electron whiz so he thinks we can pull the module and give the necessary "go signal" to the ECU to get the engine to run without a key.

physician
physician Reader
11/20/18 9:30 a.m.

There is a company adapting j35 on miata transmission. A member here is i stalling that.

I remember it used part from b18 honda clutch or starter..

He seems to have a lot of informations to start you up!.

And miata transmissions are cheaps.

 

WhiteAndGold
WhiteAndGold New Reader
11/20/18 9:52 a.m.

In reply to physician :

I have been looking into this one - the K series motor spins the right way so it can donate a flywheel (and starter probably.) I haven't found any drawings for the actual adapter which means that it's just as hard to DIY as any other trans. My biggest concern with the Miata trans is it sounds like the stock J35 is right at the top of what that transmission can handle so if we wanted to add power down the line we'd likely need something else. After my experiences with the 3 Wreck Racing cars I worked on, I'd like to make this as bulletproof as possible.

physician
physician Reader
11/20/18 11:55 a.m.

Better build it right the first time.

What about a nissan 240sx transmission? I tink they install ls v8 on them

WhiteAndGold
WhiteAndGold New Reader
11/28/18 11:23 a.m.

Spitfire is gone now, so I finally have room to start tearing into this thing properly. As such, it's now up on jacks with plenty of room on all sides to get under it.

Spent this morning pulling the only thing on this car I might be able to recoup value on - the rear end. Turns out legends dwarf cars run the Toyota 6.38" rear with a spool so I'm hoping I can offload this one to one such racer and get the car zeroed out on value. Pulling the axle was super easy because there are no shocks or any extraneous bits bolted to the axle itself, they all tie into the leaf spring-axle mounts.


Buying a crane scale was the best move - turns out the axle was a bit heavier than I thought - 120lbs. This has me thinking that maybe an 8.8 would be a sensible rear - only gain about 55lbs and it's plenty strong for my application.

I've sort of talked myself out of attempting a homebrew IRS for the time being - probably should focus on getting a running and sorted car in the simplest fashion possible first, then start with the really wacky ideas. Also I need to focus my efforts on setting up the drivetrain first - the main motivation for a T5 was that it's strong enough and very readily available. It might make more sense to stick with an auto for now but it would make me sad, even though it would make my life easier.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/28/18 1:21 p.m.

my understanding is that J37's out of the MDX and maybe ZDX came with a better upper intake manifold... that flows better, and is made of magnesium

car-part has a couple for around $150... dunno if you can score it lower at the yard you picked up the engine from... but might be something to keep in mind

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk PowerDork
11/28/18 3:35 p.m.

In reply to WhiteAndGold :

Depending on your expected power level, the 7.5 Ford might work out better. I'm assuming it's lighter than the 8.8.

Somebeach
Somebeach Reader
11/28/18 3:43 p.m.

In reply to WhiteAndGold :

If you do 8.8 or whatever solid rear are you going to keep it leaf sprung?

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/28/18 3:59 p.m.

If you want to follow KISS principle as close as possible, just U-bolt the new axle to your original leafs. You'll save some fabrication using that nice shock mount on leaf. Then you're just spacer blocks or shackles away from Low Town.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
11/28/18 4:21 p.m.

Would a four bolt Ford rear axle having a matching wheel bolt pattern to the Toyota stuff on the front?  A 7.5 in a light car should live a while I think.  

The car looks pretty good without all of the gingerbread just sitting there on jackstands.  

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UltraDork
11/28/18 5:08 p.m.
WhiteAndGold said:

Spent this morning pulling the only thing on this car I might be able to recoup value on - the rear end. Turns out legends dwarf cars run the Toyota 6.38" rear with a spool so I'm hoping I can offload this one to one such racer and get the car zeroed out on value. Pulling the axle was super easy because there are no shocks or any extraneous bits bolted to the axle itself, they all tie into the leaf spring-axle

 pretty sure Legend cars use the larger (6.8") Toyota diff....  I've used 2 so far, one in my AE71, the other in my AE86...  besides the spools, the also do new ring and pinions... and offer them welded

 

 

WhiteAndGold
WhiteAndGold New Reader
11/28/18 5:55 p.m.

In reply to oldeskewltoy :

Yeah I saw some conflicting reports on that one, but Speedway does sell spools for the 6.38 and it says for Legends, so I'll give marketing it that way a shot and see what happens!

WhiteAndGold
WhiteAndGold New Reader
11/28/18 6:02 p.m.

In reply to maschinenbau :

That's the gist of the current plan - get it running and driving with as little change as possible to the current setup, then I can work on making improvements where they are necessary. I figure the first part of that sentence will be plenty difficult to keep me busy for a while.

WhiteAndGold
WhiteAndGold New Reader
12/3/18 10:47 a.m.

Weekend update - despite everyone's (very sound) advice to stick with an auto, I pulled a T5 out of a late 90's v6 Mustang. According to the model number, this trans is rated for 265lb-ft which should be just right for what I am doing.

I also hunted around for a limited-slip 7.5 but to no avail. I had to resist the temptation of the Mustang 8.8 (3.08, LSD, discs and centered pumpkin) that was right next to this one. 8.8 is just too heavy and wide and just generally overkill for this build. Unfortunately, I couldn't bust the bellhousing off of the donor, I just rounded off the bolts. It's all as well though because if I can source a cheap 93 or earlier GT bellhousing, I'll gain 5/8" to put in the adapter (94-on Mustangs got a deeper bellhousing to account for the longer car).

Here it is all cleaned up, now I just need to source a bellhousing and I can get everything measured up to start working on the adapter plate.

maXpeedRacer
maXpeedRacer None
12/13/18 12:22 p.m.

Did you consider using a getrag from an e36? They shift alright and can probably get one for cheap. High power miatas swap these in quite often. 

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