K-Car Krazy... Preserving a time capsule

So... like a bunch of folks I am sure, I was drawn here by an article about a guy crazy enough to balk at a $53,000.00 AMG engine replacement and fix it himself. What I found was a really awesome collection of people that tinker and have a passion for all things "car".. Wow.

Some back story on this one. What I have is a 1985 Dodge 600 ES Convertible. For those unfamiliar with it. It is basically a Dodge version of the boxy LeBaron K-Car. The Dodge had it's own grill and tail lamps, but these were the days of Badge engineering so most other parts look the same. The ES was a sporty version of the 600, with luxury stuff as well. Most of the chrome was changed to black (but not all), it has the Turbo engine, two tone leather interior, Shelby wheels, and some other stuff. I knew about them back in the day, but not a real fan. Fast forward to around 1990. My Grandfather "Grandad" and Grandmother "Bunny" lived in Virginia and suddenly stopped communicating with the family. They didn't want visitors and didn't call or write. Suddenly (1994) we get a call from Grandad that Bunny has passed away. So, from all directions we came to Virginia for the funeral. Ends up, they didn't want family around as Bunny was fighting lung cancer. Back to the car. During that time Grandad sold her Lincoln and bought the Dodge from the original owner because she had always wanted a convertible. They drove it a little while she could still go out. It had 19k on it when he bought it in 1992. There it sat, in his garage with only 23k on it. I asked him what his plans were with the car. He said he hopped to sell it for the $6,500 he had in it. I then proceeded to try and convince him to keep it. How there were never that many of the Dodges, and most of them were barely running or junked already. No way, he said he didn't want it around. So I decided to just go ahead and buy it. Told him I would give him the $6,500. He agreed and the car became my DD. That lasted all of a year. As I started racking miles, what I told him stuck with me. These things are vanishing yet they were so much a part of the car scene in the 80's. So, I bought a beater and retired the K to pleasure service. And that is how it has stayed. Tucked away and only taken out occasionally.

To break up the huge monotony of this post... how about some pictures.. some are over ten years old, but you would never know.. LOL such a little garage queen...

Can't get much more original than this.. LOL

When my kids were MUCH younger.. My oldest is now 25 and the younger is 12.

Ten years or so later.. time capsule.

Now that the intros are done. Time to get to why I stuck this in the build thread area... I have always been scared to do anything to this out of fear of damaging something and messing up it's originality. I do service it. I have done things like struts and springs, brakes, tires, plugs, wires, and fluid changes of coarse. But there are some other things that have failed or are failing that I need to address.

Now is time to set those fears aside and do the garage queen the justice she deserves.

My next posts will go into some of the issues I need to fix... and I plan on sharing every nerve wrecking moment if you care to watch..

Wow, total time capsule. You are korrect, this is krazy, but you'll find a lot of that around here :)

"What could be wrong with such a pretty car like that?" you ask??

Well, not much, but stuff I have been afraid of.. first of all some of the minor things..

Rear wheel opening edges. Got some stone chips over the years and that is causing paint to bubble around them. I will get that done by a body guy I know, this June.. definitely. He has sworn to NOT blend the panel and hurt the original paint.. just fix the very specific damaged areas. I know he can match without blending... cause he fixed the silver tail gate on our former R without blending and it matched beautifully. I know this doesn't count since I wont be doing this part myself.. more of a personal note for budget reasons.

The turbo needs to be pulled and gone over... I think. This is where a community like this will help.. Ever since I got it, so many years ago, it has always seemed to bleed off boost. You would hear it whistle like a diesel truck when driving. Other 2.2 Turbo cars I have been in don't do that and seem to build up more power. I believe it has something to do with the waste gate. Stuck maybe... but really as far as I know, the only way to tell is to dive in and give everything a once over.

The OEM muffler is starting to show signs of rust and a hole appearing. I have never seen the part anywhere. Do not want to have to get a generic replacement. It has very distinctive twin pipes coming out, and actually has a tone to it. Where to look??

Now the worse.... It has a very unique digital cluster. It is similar to one in the LeBaron, except it does not have the "Vehicle Message Center". In it's place is a graphic tach. Real rare piece to say the least. Quite a few years ago, the speedo suddenly stopped working. "No biggie" I thought. Went down to the local Chrysler dealership and ordered a speed sensor for it. The sensor is a wheel driven pickup that looks just like the cable type end for a mechanical speedo, only it has a plug on the end instead of a cable. Simple enough. Unplugged the old, removed it and replaced it with the new. Job done.... nope... The speedo came back just fine, but now my odometer just displays "-------". YIKES! I don't even know where to begin with that one.

So, these are the beginning tasks I want to get done on it...

All the while taking the utmost care to keep it pristine and not hack it up..

Did I say I was nervous?? Funny... I had no problem taking the upholstery off my wife's leased Altima's seats to get her the heated seats she missed from the R, but am scared to mess with the Dodge//

This.
Is.
Awesome.

I probably have very little to contribute knowledge wise and I divested myself of all my Turbo Dodge stuff a couple of years ago. If I was standing there looking at it I could show you how to start troubleshooting the waste gate but I can't remember it enough to walk you through it with words. It is controlled with vacuum lines so you need to go through and make sure they are all hooked up and no leaking. This should be a T1 car (no intercooler) right? Is it the 2.5?
I think the sources for Koni shocks for these cars dried up which is a shame as they really made them behave better. Don't ever be afraid to tastefully upgrade things. You can set the origional parts in a corner in case someone cares to put them back on the car someday, and in the meantime you really can make them nicer to drive.

My first car was a 1984 Plymouth Reliant. I actually miss it. 24 years later. Im not one for sentimental purchases but I still daydream about it from time to time.

Does it build boost at all? You should be able to get to the swingvalve pretty easy on a early TI car. If the puck is stuck shut it will boost hard all the way to cut out, if the actuator has popped off the swingvalve it won't boost at all. It's possible the swingvalve stuck part way open but I doubt it.

Boss Hong, a $2006 GRM Challenge classic.

Later caught fire in hotel parking lot under "mysterious conditions"
True Challenge legend.

Welcome to GRM.
I see you're in Akron. Hello from Sandusky.

mazdeuce wrote: This. Is. Awesome. I probably have very little to contribute knowledge wise and I divested myself of all my Turbo Dodge stuff a couple of years ago. If I was standing there looking at it I could show you how to start troubleshooting the waste gate but I can't remember it enough to walk you through it with words. It is controlled with vacuum lines so you need to go through and make sure they are all hooked up and no leaking. This should be a T1 car (no intercooler) right? Is it the 2.5? I think the sources for Koni shocks for these cars dried up which is a shame as they really made them behave better. Don't ever be afraid to tastefully upgrade things. You can set the origional parts in a corner in case someone cares to put them back on the car someday, and in the meantime you really can make them nicer to drive.

Thanks Mazdeuce; I appreciate you chiming in. I am actually very appreciative of any input from folks of your caliber. It is a Turbo I 2.2. I believe the waste gate is vacuum operated. There is what looks like a vacuum canister that has a rod coming out of it to a lever. This has always been confusing for me. According to sites like Allpar, 1985 saw some changes. The Turbo I went from vacuum waste gate control to computer control. Also, they changed to five lug wheels from the four lug. I bring this up because my car has an October 1984 build date and four lug wheels. So, while it may be VIN'd as a 1985, I believe it is still using 1984 spec parts. So I am not sure if it has the Garrett T-3 or not.. but I think it does... more content below..

minivan_racer wrote: Does it build boost at all? You should be able to get to the swingvalve pretty easy on a early TI car. If the puck is stuck shut it will boost hard all the way to cut out, if the actuator has popped off the swingvalve it won't boost at all. It's possible the swingvalve stuck part way open but I doubt it.

Well, I am going to sound like a total newb... maybe even an idiot... but here is my take on it. Drove a 1985 Daytona with the turbo.. should be pretty close to mine, right? Well, his car felt faster and never heard the whistle of air that I hear when I drive mine. Maybe it isn't building any boost. I do know that when I get on it, it is doggy off the line then comes "more alive" as the rpm's build. But, I am in no way an expert in these cars and really don't know what is "normal"... Just know it has always whistled like something from a Fast and Furious movie..

Here are some pictures I snapped this morning of the turbo... God it looks hard to get out of there without messing stuff up...

Maybe these will help...

JohnRW1621 wrote: Welcome to GRM. I see you're in Akron. Hello from Sandusky.

Thanks for the welcome... not sure what I think about the pictures though... that 600 didn't look like it was ratty... sort of sad to see some really rare stuff go up in smoke... It was an ES just like mine.

Yea, just a little house in Akron.. does have a nice sized two car garage.. big for the area.. It's a little house with five of us.. But also no real heat in the garage.. just a propane heater for the occasional emergency winter repair. The 600 is also blocked in by the snow blower for the season as well. Living up by the lake I am sure you understand why not much wrench wise is going to happen on my little K until spring.. I call this the research period..

To be honest, the cluster issue is the one that bothers me the most... Wish I knew someone reasonable, highly talented, and trustworthy enough to send it to. It is such a rare piece and I really don't know what to test on it to see if the issue is in the cluster or the signal going to it. Hate that I don't even know where to begin on that front... Other than taking it out.

Greetings fellow NeOhioan! I live in Medina, and there is a GRM Illuminati member in the area as well .

Hey, you had like two weeks of nice warm weather to get all that stuff done . (I don't do so well in the cold anymore as I get older, so I can relate; I kind of go into hibernation mode)

Our Ohio contingent is growing!

That a cool car, my dad had one like it new.

Additional noise and less power, might be a air leak. You could maybe check with a vac gauge, one that will also show pressure. If the turbo boost is not building like it should, or if you lack vacuum at idle, then there is a air leak somewhere, the problem can be where exactly.

XLR99 wrote: Greetings fellow NeOhioan! I live in Medina, and there is a GRM Illuminati member in the area as well . Hey, you had like two weeks of nice warm weather to get all that stuff done . (I don't do so well in the cold anymore as I get older, so I can relate; I kind of go into hibernation mode)

Hey!! I did take advantage... did the heated seat install on the wife's Altima.. Funny, we traded off her 2006 Mercedes R350 (bought used) for her very first new car.. a leased Nissan Altima.. and when I asked her if there was anything she missed about the Benz, all she said was the heated seats.. I thought "Heck.. I can fix that".. and installed front seat heaters for her..

Thanks for all the warm welcomes as well. Nice to meet all of ya..

Have to say.. in all reality, this winter has been great so far.. but how quick that can change. I will have to post up some pictures of the other car like hobby later..

For your Speedometer issue, I recommend to go out to the main GRM Forum and specifically start a thread about it.
Ask for guidance of fixing it yourself or a recommendation of where to send it.
I don't know the answer but trust that someone will have insight. You just need to get the question to the front page for the most exposure and a greater likelihood of an answer rather than burred mid page here.
Add some picture of the spedo/odo to that thread too.

PS: your picture of the turbo you referenced above are not visible to me. You might want to try reposting the pics.

JohnRW1621 wrote: For your Speedometer issue, I recommend to go out to the main GRM Forum and specifically start a thread about it. Ask for guidance of fixing it yourself or a recommendation of where to send it. I don't know the answer but trust that someone will have insight. You just need to get the question to the front page for the most exposure and a greater likelihood of an answer rather than burred mid page here. Add some picture of the spedo/odo to that thread too. PS: your picture of the turbo you referenced above are not visible to me. You might want to try reposting the pics.

Thanks a ton, John. I was using Google to post those pictures, and facebook for the others. I moved them to facebook like the others so hopefully, that fixed it. I will start a thread about the cluster, too.

Confiming: turbo pics now visible.

In reply to JOsworth:

The actuator rod attaches to the swingvalve puck underneath the intake area. If the rod is off and the swingvalve puck moves freely then that is the reason for no boost. If it is attached then and the puck moves freely then it may be that the car you rode in was modified. Factory T1 cars maxed out at 7psi.

As for the parts, 85 and up is computer controlled boost, but that just means a computer operated vacuum solenoid. I'm not sure that 85 was a hard cutoff for 4 lug vs 5 lug, but with an early build date I'd guess they probably used up their supply of 4 lug hubs before changing. K cars were the epitome of parts bin engineering so you can bolt on any combo of brakes up to the ll" iroc R/T brakes from a 91/92 car. If you are looking for aftermarket wheels and don't plan on upgrading the brakes then the 4x100 lug pattern is easier to find wheels for because hondas run them.

Oh and that is most definitely a Garrett T3 turbo.

OK, so the first of many rookie questions... is there a way to check movement with running the car? If sitting there running, I increase engine speed, will I see movement from the waste gate? If so, what should I see? I have tried to move it by hand but that doesn't work, and I really didn't think it would.

The Daytona I drove was totally stock, BTW. It was at a Chrysler show and his was an impeccable original car.

My first car was a '93 Plymouth Sundance Duster that I swapped a built turbo motor into.

These motors are stupid easy to work on. Parts availability is starting to be a problem, though. The turbochargers can start to burn oil due to the seals going bad.

If it were my car? I would pull the manifolds, convert to an intercooled blow-through "Turbo II" setup, eliminate as much of the emissions-related vacuum nightmare as possible, and just have fun with it.

EDIT: Head on over to turbo-mopar.com Tell 'em Dusty Duster sent you.

Turbo dodges are fun when they run, my dad bought an omni glhs new, and I had a Shelby charger for a while. The charger made the Alfa Milano I replaced it with look very reliable and easy to get parts for in comparison.

JOsworth wrote: Well, I am going to sound like a total newb... maybe even an idiot... but here is my take on it. Drove a 1985 Daytona with the turbo.. should be pretty close to mine, right? Well, his car felt faster and never heard the whistle of air that I hear when I drive mine. Maybe it isn't building any boost. I do know that when I get on it, it is doggy off the line then comes "more alive" as the rpm's build. But, I am in no way an expert in these cars and really don't know what is "normal"... Just know it has always whistled like something from a Fast and Furious movie.. Here are some pictures I snapped this morning of the turbo... God it looks hard to get out of there without messing stuff up... Maybe these will help...

It's not going to be fun if you have to pull the turbo! I found this exact model in the junkyard a few weeks ago and pulled the turbo (car hadn't rolled over 100k.. couldn't pass it up).

We pulled the head, but getting some of the lines off would have been terrible if we hadn't just cut the rubber lines off..

The waste gate, bleeds off excessive pressure, so it won't do anything at idle or while revving the engine in neutral with the hood up. If you were to disconnect the hose going to the actuator, and connect the actuator to a source of pressure you could see if it moves, wouldn't need much pressure, since it should vent at less than 10 PSI. That could be done without it running. If you have a good vac/boost gauge in the car, you should see boost climb under load, accelerating, then the boost control should vent the boost limiting it at the control limit, maybe 8PSI. If it goes above the control limit the waste gate isn't working. Or if it won't build enough boost, then maybe the waste gate is venting early, but there could be other causes of reduced boost. Air leaks anywhere will change the boost or the boost control. Or a lack of fuel, or a sensor reading out of range, or something else....

The wastegate will hold around 5 psi by itself and with the factory boost control setup it will run 7 psi