Last member of the Silver Fleet: 1979 Trans Am WS6

ValuePack wrote: Oh man, BA Rallys! I had a set of those in 4" in the front of my 4WD Civic years ago. Love it!

Not only do I have these 6x9's, I also have a set of 4" Rallys too that are destined for the Trans Am. I also have a set of 5x7 and 3.5" Boston Acoustics CX Series (the ones right under the Rally Series) kicking around too. The 3.5's are actually mounted in the single center dash speaker location in the Trans Am right now.

All of those used to get sound from an Alpine CDM-7871:

I still have a couple of them kicking around. One of them has a faulty CD drive, but the other still works. I think the Trans Am will end up with this Kenwood EX500 I have in there instead:

It looks more contemporary in the dash of an older car, and it still sounds great.

Best car stereo ever in my possession - Alpine Unit/Acoustic amp/Pioneer 6x9's in speaker boxes. Blew one of them listening to Queensryche - Operation Mindcrime.

I miss it (the stereo and the 69 Impala 327 it was in)

I'm using the same Kenwood stereo in my 70 duster. I also have a spare hd module and cable kicking around for it, because I bought one just before I was given one.

Only irritation about them is lack of usb drive, and the auxiliary input has a low gain, so sound level is way off from all the others.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Oooh, HD Radio module? I've been kinda sorta looking for one of those. Is it the factory Kenwood one?

There's a HD Radio station around here that's called The Bone. It's all stuff you would expect to come out of the 6x9's of every guy's car circa 1987. No kidding, one of the tag lines says (in a sexy lady voice),"Crank it up in your Trans Am!".

In reply to TIGMOTORSPORTS:

Queensryche rules. Operation: Mindcrime is Trans Am Approved.

Yup. Kenwood module and cable. Like I said, bought 2.

And all for 106.5 hd2. All the stuff from high school, no commercial interruption.

Now that I have found it, nothing else is going to cut it.

Also got an nos faceplate bezel (the rectangle) sitting here.

A metra power antenna fits the muscle cars and has great reception.

Also, consider putting component speakers in the kick panels. Really broadens the front Soundstage in these.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

I have a set of Polk DB components laying around too. If I were to do kick panel speakers, I'd need to get aftermarket kick panels or make some. Also, the Polks are 6.5", which might be a bit large for that area. There's also not a good place to mount the tweeters.

I was thinking about getting a set of the "standard interior" door panels (aka cheaper) and adding 6.5" door speakers. They actually make modern door panels for these out of the Year One Bandit cars that have speaker holes, but holy crap they are expensive!!!

Another option: I have the 3.5's in the dash. I could add the door speakers and have 6 speakers somehow running for better sound staging. I do have a few amps at my disposal...

The antenna on my car is inside the windshield, and it works well. Power antennas are VERY rare on these. My 10th Anniversary had one because it had every factory option. That said, I may be interested in your HD Radio box if you decide to sell it.

It's all fun to think about, but I really need to get those floors done. I'm hoping that by the end of August they will be in.

This summer has been really busy. Blah. I'm way behind schedule with what I wanted to get done this year.

Over the weekend, I decided that since I'm going to be welding on the car, a smart move would be to pull the leaky gas tank out.

I borrowed my buddy's motorcycle jack that he bought to do a tranny and rear end swap on his Monte Carlo. It also works great for removing gas tanks! Last time I did this (on my old CSX) I did it with a couple floor jacks and my hands. The result was fuel all over me and my garage and my wife found me roaming around my backyard high on fumes mumbling things. Not a drop of fuel dripped this time, and no gas-fueled acid trips, either.

And there it is. I was hoping for a build sheet stashed away on top, but alas... Also, it's been out before. There is a sizable booger of tank repair epoxy on the top. The ground wire for the tank was twisted together and electrical taped. Wonderful.

Now for the scary stuff. The following pictures are of the tail pan and rear subframe.

Tail pan by one of the bumper mounts

Pin holes in the tail pan

Rear subframe and shackle mounts

The trunk floor is still there?

Tank strap mounts

As you can see, there are some troubling spots here. I decided that if I poke at the rear frame and it was bad, then the project would be over. So I got out the brushes and a screwdriver, and the frame is all there with no soft spots. I cleaned most of the scale off (no pics) and there's still metal there. Even the shackles are ok. The concerns are the area around the tank strap mounts and the tail pan. They don't make those pieces for my car. The actual mounts themselves seem ok, but the structure beneath them is crumbling. I also noticed that all my suspension bushings back there are crap, and my rear sway bar and axle are getting rusty. For a car that's lived in New England all it's life, this is not as bad as it could be.

I think I just took a nose dive down the "slippery slope".

Plan is (for now) to clean and treat the rust that's there and get the floors in before winter. Baby steps...

From Transamcountry.com

The main locations are: Inside the backrest of the back seat (Norwood seems to prefer this) Under the back seat On top of the gas tank In the springs under a front seat literally anywhere else in the interior, like under the carpet or behind a finish panel

In reply to Agent98:

If you are talking about the build sheet, it's long gone. I've checked ALL of the areas where it would be, and nothing was there. Someday when I have an extra $100 to spend on a piece of paper, I'll give PHS a call. They can source a build sheet and some other info.

... And I have a can of this stuff on the way.

Should be here by the weekend. I will be scraping rust and prepping for the paint until then. I have a half can of Hootus Paint (POR15) but I want to try this stuff. Plus, you can paint over it.

Good news on not finding soft spots, this is a great build and I'm jealous!

I had a few minutes to work on the car over the weekend, so I decided that the priority is to get the floors in. I started on the passenger side, cutting all the bad stuff out.

It started off looking like this:

Then, I started nibbling away with my shears:

The biggest issue is that brace under the pan. The driver's side one looks like it's all there, but the passenger side one is gonzo. I don't think they make those, so that will need to be fabricated.

Also, the floor pans I bought are VERY generous with the coverage:

I will obviously have to trim that down to fit. Progress!

Progress is good! The rust in that area looks like a combination. Leaking heater core at some point and one or both of the typical leaks from the lower windshield corner and the side cowl vent opening behind the kick panel. Might as well pull that kick panel and get it out of the way anyhow. There's like a Lb. of sealer behind the kick panel so you may need to wiggle and pry a bit to get it off while being careful not to crack off the thin section by the dash pad.

Yup! Slippery slope, enjoy the slide!

Yes! Can't wait to see the tinworm cured.

NOT A TA wrote: Progress is good! The rust in that area looks like a combination. Leaking heater core at some point and one or both of the typical leaks from the lower windshield corner and the side cowl vent opening behind the kick panel. Might as well pull that kick panel and get it out of the way anyhow. There's like a Lb. of sealer behind the kick panel so you may need to wiggle and pry a bit to get it off while being careful not to crack off the thin section by the dash pad. Yup! Slippery slope, enjoy the slide!

I do need to pull the kick panel. I was just being lazy. It should be fine behind it.

And yes, there is evidence of either a bad heater core and/or a leaky seal up there. The jute padding up there was a little crunchy, but everything is solid. It wasn't moist, so I'm hoping that when I replaced the old heater box with a non-A/C one a few years ago that it fixed the leak. I did the heater core at that time as well.

I also noticed that somewhere around the back window or side window is leaking onto the passenger side rear floor. My guess is that the back window is the culprit, judging by the wet spots I used to get on the carpet and the rear package tray. Looks like I'll have to re-seal it sooner than later.

So, this floor brace (the rusty, thin piece to the right of the frame)...

I have a couple questions about it.

First, is it necessary? I'm guessing that YES, it is.

Second, is it a different gauge metal than the rest of the floor? I honestly cannot tell, because it's so rotted.

BUMP for an answer to my question about that floor brace. Anyone on here know?

Pretty sure that the bean counters would have deleted it if it wasn't necessary.

If it's the part I think it is, it's a reinforcement for the body mount. On the elky it was about 1/16 thick.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Body mount? I know there are four of them on the 70-81 cars, and they are on the subframe. I've replaced them all with poly bushings years ago. They aren't where that brace is. I think it's more of a floor brace so the floor doesn't flex around.

EDIT: you are right. It's a structural piece, or a torque box. They do not make them for the 74-81 cars and replacing it requires the subframe to come out.

If I can't patch it from the inside, I think my time with the car may be over.

Looks to me as Dusterbd said it's the body mount bracket (sometimes referred to as a torque box also). It starts at the base of the vertical section of the cowl and ends where the toe pan, floor, and that bracket meet at the seam near the base of the toe board.

The stock floor board and toe panels were 2 different pieces and for years toe panels weren't reproduced because the originals were part of the same piece of sheet metal as the vertical firewall. Now they're including the shape of the toe board into replacement floor pans like the one you have. The original pieces overlapped where the double bead runs across your pan back a couple inches from where the pan angles up as a toe board. Sorry to have to be the messenger but based on what I see in the pic you're best off replacing the whole body mount bracket section with the cage nut for the body mount in it particularly if you plan on any kind of performance driving.

Strength in that area is very important, you can explore options concerning resistance spot welding, structural adhesives, and/or plug welding the new floor pan to the new body mount section. You may also consider reinforcing that area because while there were three panels welded together at the factory you now only have two and the replacement floor pan section may be thinner gauge sheet metal than the stock floor was. You don't want the floor pan section buckling and body mount bracket deflecting under power, braking, or cornering. There are also crash safety considerations so structural integrity there is important.

Don't bail on the project because of this, you're not the first and won't be the last to find this section rotted.

Here's a few pics that might help.

[URL=http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Firebird/20161006_162535_zpsw4tgdn7m.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Firebird/20161006_160650_zpswxwiaomi.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Firebird/20161006_160636_zpsiayxskjq.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Firebird/20161006_160616_zpsw2zfpmqg.jpg.html][/URL]

In reply to NOT A TA:

Those pictures do help a ton, thanks!

I'm just at a very frustrating point with this car. I have not driven it since 2012, and that's due to a lot of things. I had another car that needed similar things at the time, and a lot of other stuff has come up in life, making it difficult to even find time to work on the car. I was hoping to be able to patch the panel as much as possible instead of replacing the whole thing, which is an "engine out" affair from the looks of it. That coupled with the rear frame crustiness I noticed, the need for a quarter patch, doors, etc. has made me consider unloading the car and finding a LS-powered 4th Gen Trans Am to replace it. Rust sucks, and it never sleeps. A less rusty car would be easier to manage.

If I do patch that panel, then I will also be looking at other types of reinforcement down the road, like body braces and subframe connectors. We will see what happens.

I've never been on a slope with decent grip. In my experience, every slope is slippery.

What would Queensryche do?

What happened to the cat?