Checking fluid condition is a good first step. Have you searched for that code and symptoms on a Volvo forum? If the transmission is under warranty, I'd be hesitant to do any work that could void that.
Checking fluid condition is a good first step. Have you searched for that code and symptoms on a Volvo forum? If the transmission is under warranty, I'd be hesitant to do any work that could void that.
In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :
The couple of forum posts I've seen about it refer to it as the "death code," but no one explains what's actually wrong. I wonder if I should bolt check the torque converter where it bolts to the flex plate? Since it's a "lockup function" code I wonder if the converter has kind of slid out of place, that's just me speculating in the dark though.
So tonight I got the car on jackstands, verified just for peace of mind that the torque converter bolts were tight, and then I grabbed some clean see through containers and pulled the drain plug on the transmission..
In a word, yikes. To me this almost looks like someone mixed the atf with water, which is weird because when I drained the old fluid out of the replacement transmission, it looked pretty good, not brand new but a nice bright red. So I don't know if this is a fluid contaminate or a bunch of tiny clutch pack particles. Either way, not ideal.
After draining the ATF, I drained maybe a pint or so of coolant from the radiator, to compare that and see if maybe ATF and coolant had mixed together in the transmission cooler/radiator. The coolant was yellow, which I think is probably not the stuff that Volvo calls for, but it looked fairly clean and normal otherwise, not muddy with some other fluid. So I'm thinking maybe the new transmission had some water in the torque converter or something? I have to get it out of the car this week so I can return it to the junkyard before the warranty expires, hopefully they don't give me a hard time about the return.
Ugh bummer. Well, you're better prepared for the next one!
In reply to jfryjfry :
Living and learning for sure. The stupid part of my brain wonders how much work a manual swap would be to ensure that I never have to deal with any torque converter or solenoid games again..
Yeah that fluid doesn't look so good. Possible the torque converter had some water in it. I'd almost be tempted to do some drain and fills in rapid succession and see if that fixes it, but at this point there's probably a bunch of damage and you have a warranty, so pulling it and getting a replacement is probably the way to go.
So the junkyard advised me to talk to a shop they deal with that's familiar with these transmissions, and after I sent them photos of the fluid they were certain that the torque converter clutch(clutches?) are toast. They let the junkyard know, and now I'm supposed to return the transmission for a refund since they don't have another to exchange it. Right now I don't think there are any replacements nearby, and I'm going to be wary when choosing the next one to make sure it's been stored indoors and hasn't been contaminated with water.
Hopefully you can get a better cared for used transmission and get this back on the road soon. Always goes quicker the second time, and you already are a pro at the relearn procedure.
In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :
I appreciate your optimism. I can't say I'm keen to pull it apart again but the sooner I get it back on the road the better. My RX-7 projects are suffering from neglect as long as the Volvo is in need of repair.
To bring this project up to date: I took the original non junkyard transmission to George at Rushman transmissions just southeast of Columbus Ohio. He was very informative when I was dealing with the junkyard transmission and offered to pull apart the original trans and determine what was wrong for no charge. A few weeks ago, he got it apart and said it needs a complete overhaul kit including steels and solenoids. So far, the suppliers he works with don't have anything for cars more than 5 years old (which is odd since the average age of cars on the road is something like 12 years) but he's supposed to be trying another place in Kentucky this week. The only complete kits I've found online range between $600-$800, which he says is way too much. Also with the online kits, I don't really know what I'm getting or what to look for. I'm reluctant to search for another used transmission as they all seem to have the same issues, and it would be nice to have a fresh rebuild instead.
I am always baffled by that kind of thing. Why would a three year old transmission need to be rebuilt??
Anyway good luck. If I see an M66 swap available I'll post it in this thread.
In reply to orthoxstice :
Abuse.
There is kind of a weird window effect for major repair work. The vehicle has to be new enough for someone to consider throwing $8000-10,000 into having a trans rebuilt, but old enough to actually need that service.
The local junkyards immediately scrap anything significantly over 5 years old before they even make it to the lot, because they make their money catering to body shops and used car dealers. Same effect, the yard space makes more money if it holds more expensive parts.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
I'm thinking that business model could change in the next decade, as new car prices continue hitting nose bleed highs and people try to keep their older cars on the road longer. Though there are still lots of people who want the shiny new car even if they can't truly afford it, hence 72 month financing, yikes..
In reply to dannyp84 :
It's not about people keeping cars on the road longer, it's insurance companies repairing cars or totaling them. It is not private individuals buying the left rear corner of a Corolla (like, cut off at the B pillar and right up the middle) to repair crash damage, or most of the interior of a Pacifica to make a trashed minivan suitable for resale.
All the transmission parts have been sourced, and I had the torque converter rebuilt. Still waiting on the transmission as George at Rushman has had some health problems apparently which has caused understandable delays. I was hoping to have the car up and running before January but that's not looking promising. I'm already tired of daily driving my truck but it'll have to do a while longer.
I imagine these Volvos would be good cheap runabout cars for someone who's well-versed in them, but with how long it took us to find good prices on some of the transmission stuff, I wouldn't recommend the cars to anyone who expects to repair them quickly. Not so much the car's fault, but still an impractical hurdle for the average person I'd say.
Hey Pete, any idea whether the turbo transmissions are interchangeable with the non turbo? My local pull n pay yard has two S60s in their inventory but both are turbo. The rebuild shop that has my transmission has had it since October and is not currently answering the phone. I haven't given him any money yet so I might just try and grab another transmission and stop trying to get in touch with him. I'd like to get this thing back on the road this summer.
Well, the car is mobile again. The rebuilder for my original transmission is still MIA so I took a risk on a marketplace Aisin 55-51 out of a wrecked V70. I wasn't sure the 51 would be compatible but a salvage yard I talked to seemed to be optimistic, and for the price I was willing to take a risk. So far I've done about 100 test miles without any codes being thrown. I also finally installed new sway bar links up front so the car no longer drives like a hay wagon. Next I need to find a side mirror and have the windshield replaced, then see if a buffing wheel makes any improvement..
Bummer about your transmission guy - hope he is ok. But glad the used transmission seems to be working!
I'm glad this worked out finally. I've actually been looking at S60's recently because my daily driver (a 250k mile 940 turbo) is getting pretty tired after being a city car its whole life. I wanted a P2 XC70 but sellers want 5-8k for them in reasonable condition. Meanwhile decent AWD S60's with the 2.5T are half that!
In reply to orthoxstice :
Do you need awd? I imagine the engine bay for the awd cars is a bit more cramped if you have to do any service, especially so if it's a turbo car. I do like the way these cars drive, and how resistant they seem to be against rust. The n/a 5 cylinder needs some revs to get the car going in any hurry but it's not nearly as slow as say an ABA powered Jetta or my old Montero.
The AWD is just a dongus that sits around the long axle, bolted to the trans. It doesn't enter in to engine bay service at all. The AWD and FWD transmissions are the same aside from the spline collar on AWD models.
Mostly, I am pretty sure that all AWD models were turbocharged, so you have that going for you. They aren't that bad as Euro cars go, or even a lot of other vehicles. Its certainly one of the easiest timing belt jobs out there as long as you aren't changing any seals. If you have variable cam timing, there are no timing marks and the cam sprockets don't have a lock position anyway, so just make marks with a paint pen on the old belt and the cam and crank sprockets, transfer the marks to the new belt, and pop it together. No failure prone hydraulic tensioner. One bolt holds the timing belt cover on.
No hydraulic tensioner. No air injection to fail. No EGR to clog. No oil pressure dependent and plastic guide dependent timing chains. These are the flathead Fords of the 2000s.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Does all the same apply to the n/a engine? The most annoying part about owning this car has been finding accurate information and/or shops willing to talk or help. It could be the region where I live, but the moment you say Volvo they all throw up their hands. Also the dealerships don't want to touch anything more than 10 years old. FCP Euro was at least willing to look into it.
I have seen only one naturally aspirated S60. The exhaust manifold is a nice 5 into 1 header. All I did with that car was a clutch and transmission. (The hydraulics died and she broke a shift fork or something, it was stuck in 2nd gear)
It's basically the same engine from 1993 or whenever the 850 was introduced until the end, aside from detail work.
Come to think of it, that was only one of two front drive P2s that I'd ever seen - the other was an S80, which didn't get a naturally aspirated five. S80 has a much roomier engine bay, can get the throttle body out without dismantling most of the turbo plumbing.
1100 miles in on the replacement transmission, and I finally replaced the cracked windshield. This car was supposed to be a fix and flip to help fund my club racing weekends, but I'm really enjoying it as an everyday driver. I think I'll list the price optimistically high and just not mind at all if I have no takers..
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