Locost 7 DIY build questions

Hello everyone! My name is Johnny, I'm 16. (Be 17 in April.) I'm from TX, right now we live in Willow River MN.

Recently the family watched The Prisoner and I really liked his car. So I started looking into it and found it's a Lotus 7, and that folks actually build them from the ground up! I decided I am going to build one.

I decided to build one #1 Because I won't be able to afford the 30k Caterham 7 ANYTIME soon, #2 Because I'd love to have the experience and knowledge that I would gain from building it, and #3 Of course cuz them would be some pretty cool bragging rights, driving around a car I built with my own hands lol. I'm kinda tall at 6' 1", so I decided to use the McSorley 7+442 plans. I'll see if I can attach the ones I was looking at.

I got Ron Champion's book "Build Your Own Sports Car For As Little As £250-And Race It!!" And I've read it through a couple times now. 

So for the questions.

#1 Maybe this is a little premature, but I'm trying to decide on the engine. Bike engine, RX5 Rotary engine, normal Miata engine, etc. Any input on that? Anything I should look for specifically?

#2 I see for the most part the frame uses 1x1 14 gauge steel tubing. Where have y'all found is the best place to get that? In the book he said no tube for the frame is over 5 feet, so should I be able to get offcuts?

#3 Is building the larger McSorley frame going to make it much harder to find a nose cone? Is it pretty easy to find someone with one that needs repair, or is just sitting on a shelf not being used, or something like that?

#4 In the book he recommends the old Ford Ford Econoboxs as donor cars, Idk if that was just a Brit thing or what but we don't seem to have a lot (any) around here. Are there any specific models you recommend as a donor car?

Those are my biggest questions, but I'm sure I'll come up with a lot more. Any generaly input or advice or anything is greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Johnny

Howdy Johnny! This is marvelous and I'm sure you're gonna have a great time with this project. There is an authority on building Locosts right here on the GRM forum: Keith Tanner. He wrote the book you really want to get because it's based in the US and the car he outlines in the book is based upon Miata running gear. Engine, trans, diff, suspension, brakes, etc. It is probably your best bet for success in this endevour.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/9447801121954277/

Unfortunately, the book is outta print and it's not 15 bucks any more. Still it will more than pay for itself. Ron's book is a good start but Keith will give you the means to get it on the road.

1x1 tubing is not expensive and will not be the major expense in this project. The key is to get clean straight tubing. Tools are what's gonna drive the budget: MIG welder (TIG if have the money and talent), chop saw, alignment tools, build table and so on.

Run the Miata drivetrain. Anything else adds complexity and difficulties with the build.

The McSorley design is great if you need the size otherwise I'd go with the Tanner chassis.

Get on the Locost forums and Book of Faces group. They'll be able to give you a lot of guidance.

And know this: Building your own car will lead to harder drugs. Like racing and stuff. As Steve McQueen said: Racing is life. Everything else is waiting...

Have a ball! We look forward to reading your build log.

Keith Tanner to the white courtesy phone please.

I would base my build off of a Miata as much as possible. Not only will it make the build easier, but it will simplify maintenance in the future. 

The only reason to not build a Miata based 7 clone is that for less effort you could build one of these:

You may want to see if a mod will move this post to the main forum. We have several locost7 builders on the forum!

I'll try and post up my opinions at some point when I'm at my computer vs the phone.

Two other books that come highly recommended for methods, techniques and reference - especially regarding the experience!

Kimini - How to design and build a mid-engine sports car from scratch

Midlana - Complete plans for building this high performance, mid-engine sports car - using a FWD drivetrain.

Both books authored by Kurt Bilinski

Websites are still up: kimini.com midlana.com

I got mine on the road in 2006.  I documented the build here: The Lethal Locost

Miata is a good "all in one donor." I cut up an AE86 Corolla (gasp!).  The "Stalker V6" used an S10.  Being resourceful and trying to find "the right" parts is the fun part.  There are no "rules."  Once you can build a frame, you can adapt ANY engine, ANY axle, and ANY suspension.

You can a wider chassis that still fits the stock nose.  You can widen a nose.

Spend time here: LocostUSA.com - Index page

And be sure to start a build thread HERE.  We will all chip in, follow along, and help out.

Everyone thank you so much for the responses!! I appreciate it soooo much.

Edit: Aargh!!! I'm still a new user so it limits me to 1 post per hour. Shoot. Oh well. Believe me, "Thank you and I appreciate it!" is NOT all I wanted to say and ask, you've given me much food for thought and subjects for questions.

Thanks!

The LocostUSA website has 'reliability' issues.  It's down again right now but keep checking b/c it has huge amounts of info. [Edit, okay it WAS down]

The site was up a couple weeks ago and I had tried to register (can't see attachments w/o registering).  I never got a "prove you're real" email, and I just have not followed up.  Registering also included a bot-proofing challenge question, WTF is supposed to be the answer to "four quarts (pints? I don't remember) and then one more is enough of this"??

The equivalent locost forum in the UK: https://locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/

Steel tube: search for your state's name plus various combinations of the words: steel, metal, supplier, distributor, fabricator.
Many big metal suppliers have webstores (a few examples: online metals, speedy metals, McMaster) but those are going to be absurdly expensive for a chassis-worth of tube.

I wouldn't do a 442 chassis unless I was a large individual. Sevens are supposed to be small, and the bigger chassis is not as stiff. 

Miata is the easy button for a US build. In the rear, you can even use the entire subframe if you want to make life a bit easier at the expense of weight. Bike engines are a track-only solution.

Most of what's in my book is also found at Cheapsportscar.net. I didn't build my frame, but it was basically the Champion frame with an independent rear (of questionable design) grafted on. 

Don't get caught in analysis paralysis trying to design the perfect suspension. A car that is built is far more fun than a car that is still stuck in the design stage - and you can always reweld things. 

https://www.facebook.com/share/1XVn49evRa/

This is a decent looking miata, just no title. It would be a good donor car for you. It is local to me and looks to be ~5 hrs from you

In reply to rdcyclist :

Thanks!

I just looked up the book. You're right, it sure ain't cheap, but I figure it's worth the investment so I'll get it when I can.

We just recently got a MIG welder, before that I was using a stick welder. When the weather warms up some I'll start practicing with the MIG. We do have a good bit of tools, but I've been making a list of the tools I'll need as I think of them.

I don't have FB, but I'll check out the other forums some more.

And yes, I know this is only gonna be the beginning! One day I'd like to race. Not really as a career probably, but who knows. I'm planning on building this locost with some things like extra baffles in the fuel tank, better cooling, etc. to make it better for racing with friends. Or racing with cops. ;)

Thanks again!!!

(Now for another hour 'till the next response....)

In reply to Keith Tanner :

WOAH are you THE Keith Tanner lol??? I guess so!! That's awesome. Your orange and silver car you built is SOOOOO wonderful. It's what I plan to generally model mine after. Orange is my favorite color, too. I'm glad through the forum I could meet ya!! I get to meet one of my heroes lol.

So I guess from what I'm hearing I will go with the Miata. How much do ya think is a reasonable target to pay for a donor car? If I can get a summer job I'll definitely use part of that to buy one.

And I'll try to to get stuck on suspension design! I don't think I will.

Thank you so much!!

In reply to Johnny_ :

Welcome, good to see the younger generation passionate about cars, and even more so about a Locost. Continue your research, get a MIG welder, some scrap 16gage square tubing and start practicing. Research your states requirements about licensing home-built, kit, or replica cars. If you actually want to get a finished project on the road you need to know these requirements up front. Find a cheap beater Miata and get started.

As stated above, check out https://www.locostusa.com/forums/index.php. If it's down, keep trying, all of your questions can be answered there.

Inspiration photos.....same car, just grew tired of white and 7-years of use and auto-x cones damage needed to be addressed.

Yeah, that guy :) I'm glad the build was an inspiration. It taught me a huge amount.

Cooling isn't going to be a problem, they cool well because there's a lot of airflow through the nose. The fuel tanks are almost always wide and shallow, so baffling or a sump is required. I think there are pics of mine on my site, the steel tank I built worked really well. We also built a Westfield with a surge tank at work and that was effective. 

The 1.6 Miata engine is slightly smaller externally than a 1.8, it might be easier to fit. Price for donors depends on where you live, but I'd expect you could get one for under $2k. If you live in a rusty area, that'll help. Things like doors and hoods are easily resold to recoup some money as well. 

There's a lot of excellent knowledge in this forum, definitely keep posting with your ideas and asking questions. And pictures :)

TIL our Keith Tanner is THAT Keith Tanner.....who knew.

In reply to Johnny_ :

For tubing I'd start on Facebook Marketplace. I see steel advertised all the time....off cuts....overstock....shops closing, etc. It's usually priced well below my local steel supplier. MIG welders are easy to find there,too.

In reply to jaf :

It's a wonderful car in both pictures lol.

And I hadn't thought of checking licensing requirements, I'll do that.

Thanks!

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Ok so I guess I won't worry about extra cooling lol. I'll check out the tank at your site.

How does this look for a donor?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1308255706871873/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post

Thank you!

I'm not excited about the top end noise, but it does sound like it could be lifters. Easy enough to change with the head on the car and they're cheap these days. Rusty body and no title is perfect for a donor :)

Sooooo.... first potential issue... does this mean what I think it does? :0

"Vehicle title application for kit cars, replica cars and restored pioneer vehicles

A kit/replica car is a vehicle built to resemble a specific year, make, model of a vehicle. 

These specially constructed vehicles must be built using: 

• the frame from an existing motor vehicle and the body from a “kit” manufacturer
• the frame and the body from a “kit” manufacturer 

The vehicle year will be titled using the year the kit was manufactured,"... blah blah blah. Here's the link. DVS rule

So am I looking at the wrong thing, or are they seriously banning anything but premade kits??? That would be terribly sad.

Thanks!

Call your DMV and ask. They're the source of truth. I think the usual term is "specialty constructed vehicle". You won't have a Manufacturer Statement of Origin, that's the difference. Kinda like a home built trailer. 

A lot of them probably wear the VIN of the donor and just hope nobody asks. There used to be an Atom in town that identified as a VW kit car. 

That's what it does look like.  I wonder how they handle vehicles from other states where you can have anything and the year of manufacture is the year of the engine.  (This is why pre 1966 engines can be worth so much more than 1967-newer engines even if mechanically identical)

I wonder if, worst case if Keith's idea doesn't pan out, you could start with a T bucket "frame" and  T roadster "body" and build off of that.  The frames they sell are just a rectangle of tubes, no suspension mounting points or crossmembers, and the "body" could be hidden in a Seven clone. The roadster looks kind of Seven-ish if you squint...

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Ok, I'll give them a call soon. Thanks!

I have heard of some people using the receipt for the steel from "XYZ Metal Supplier" and calling it an "XYZ Kit Car"