Can you do a voltage drop test between the battery positive and starter positive, battery negative and starter case?
Should be no more than half a volt when cranking. If it's a lot more than that, hmm.
Can you do a voltage drop test between the battery positive and starter positive, battery negative and starter case?
Should be no more than half a volt when cranking. If it's a lot more than that, hmm.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Can you do a voltage drop test between the battery positive and starter positive, battery negative and starter case?
Should be no more than half a volt when cranking. If it's a lot more than that, hmm.
I have a DMM, so yes?
I've kinda done that already on the B+ side, I think, by observing PCM input voltage during hot crank. Cable goes from B+ to starter, then from starter to power distribution, then from power distribution to PCM.
~175 days-travel days-days that are too berkeleying cold to be in the garage-life in general, Patrick. No Pressure.
preach said:~175 days-travel days-days that are too berkeleying cold to be in the garage-life in general, Patrick. No Pressure.
i feel the love. I would have listed "employment uncertainty" as it's own bullet point, but I can see rolling it into "life in general." \m/
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:preach said:~175 days-travel days-days that are too berkeleying cold to be in the garage-life in general, Patrick. No Pressure.
i feel the love. I would have listed "employment uncertainty" as it's own bullet point, but I can see rolling it into "life in general." \m/
That should give you more time (and more stress).
Edit to add: if it came to the challenge as is, we would be able to get it ready for competition. No sweat.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Well, what you have is the computer's opinion of the positive side, the negative side might have a huge drop. Or you might have minimal drop but the battery can't hack it...
Documentation and testing is *good* 
Last time I ran the car, it was on a new calibration that did not have a stable idle. So before experimenting with any starter stuff, I spent a bunch of time combing through my cal notes to figure out what to undo. Got that done, flashed the new BIN, and she settled into a decent idle. The only starting circuit change was shimming the starter to reduce plunge depth, because it was the easiest change to make. It did not change anything.
Starter does not get hot. After running 15 minutes, I could lay my hand on the starter no problem. The oil pan was far hotter.
Tomorrow I will relocate battery and make new cables. If that doesn't help, I will revisit increasing radial clearance between starter and flywheel ring gear. I will win this battle.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:I will win this battle.
You shall.
One of my favorite challenge builds.
Relocated battery, used different cables, hot crank was no problem until the starter E36 M3 the bed. So now I don't know the true cause of the hot no-crank, but I do know I need a new starter. I can't believe my $70 investment in Chinesium didn't pay off.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:Relocated battery, used different cables, hot crank was no problem until the starter E36 M3 the bed. So now I don't know the true cause of the hot no-crank, but I do know I need a new starter. I can't believe my $70 investment in Chinesium didn't pay off.
I would've bet on the starter for it anyway. Testing it at the auto parts store doesn't replicate the hot soak problem. Hope it fixes your issue!
In reply to Kendall Frederick :
Bendix drive is failing. It engages, turns the engine for about one compression event, then disengages and the starter free spins. Waited for everything to return to ambient temp and tried again, same thing. Local U-Pull put out a 2008 A4 this morning, so i'm going to try the JY route before buying new. Will get out there today or tomorrow. today's weather prediction was cloudy but no precip, so i brought everything with me to take a few hours of sick leave / mental health maintenance time today, and was bummed to get rained on almost the whole way to work.
Ok, first things first: berkeley VAG for triple square fasteners.
Phew, I feel better now, don't you?
I spent quality time in the JY, but didn't get everything on my list. The 2008 9-3 was already crushed so I missed out on the headlight I wanted, to replace the internally-smoked one on Mama's car. The starter on the A4 was corroded *and* oil-soaked, so even if it had standard bolts I probably wouldn't have grabbed it.
I was able to snag a connector from the A4 oil pressure switch that is also used on the 01X manual trans backup light switch, so I can wire that up when I've got some spare time.
I also snagged a 2nd row seat belt from a 2003 Odyssey, which is about 16" longer than the Miata belt that wvumtnbkr installed at the Challenge.
That seat belt will work nicely with the 2005-ish WRX seat that's replacing the wasted C4 seat. There are broken welds in the C4 seat frame, so the back is twisty and lumpy and uncomfortable and possibly hazardous.
I'm still in the thinking phase of seat bracket design, but I think it'll progress to CAD and maybe even see the hot glue gun before my new starter arrives.
I also snagged a complete steering column for my buddy Kurt's 2003 Dodge Ram. The wheel is a little beat up, but it has all the correct cruise switches and the radio controls on the back, and it was only $45. Kurt fell off a ladder about 10 weeks ago and the sudden deceleration berkeleyed him up but good, so I'm happy I got to do something for him. No head injuries, but two broken wrists and a berkeleyered leg and some broken teeth and some internal bruising. He's a champ though, and is powering through PT.
That's it for now.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:Ok, first things first: berkeley VAG for triple square fasteners.
Phew, I feel better now, don't you?
Amen!
berkeley them for most things, really. I swear they'll figure out how to have the timing belt break on their EVs.
TVR Scott said:AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:Ok, first things first: berkeley VAG for triple square fasteners.
Phew, I feel better now, don't you?
Amen!
berkeley them for most things, really. I swear they'll figure out how to have the timing belt break on their EVs.
HA! and Harley doesn't make toasters because they haven't figured out how to make them leak oil.
I'm a huge fan of those seats, great choice!
Autopsy of $70 Chinesium starter revealed several things.
First, the overrun clutch in the drive was completely berkeleysauced, allowing the drive gear to spin both directions. So, when I thought the drive was retracting but the starter continued to spin, what was really happening is that the springs and balls inside the overrun clutch were not providing sufficient load to "lock" the drive gear to the shaft. So the solenoid engaged the drive and the motor spun, but the drive gear did not spin, hence the engine did not crank.
Second, the planetary gear housing is made of plastic, looks like plain nylon, not fiber reinforced.
Third, the stamped steel planetary gear cover was deformed and no longer snapped into place on the housing.
Fourth, there were witness marks on the back of the planetary gear cover that suggest it had been contacted by the motor rotor.
Fifth, the fork joining the solenoid plunger to the starter drive was the same non-reinforced plastic as the planetary gear housing. Reacting against metal components at both ends, I'm sure it would not live long.
I have a spare made in Germany Bosch starter that came with the transaxle. It doesn't spin well due to wear of the brushes and armature (or is it the commutator?), so I pulled it apart to see if the drive assembly could be used in the Chinesium starter. Sure enough, the Bosch part was a direct drop-in. So I swapped the more robust planetary housing and cover as well, put it all back together, and gave it a test spin. It seems to work well, so tomorrow I'll put it on the engine and give it a go.
I also bought a new Bosch starter, just in case. berkeleying thing is made in China.
Not only does this sound like a problem solved, but perhaps you can put some $$ back into the budget?
jfryjfry said:Not only does this sound like a problem solved, but perhaps you can put some $$ back into the budget?
No save, because Im still using most of the Chinesium starter. I will put the new starter on the shelf, won't add it to the budget until I have to put it on the car. At that point it's a $90 budget hit ($160 new Bosch vs $70 Chinesium)
I've found hitting the rotor & stator parts on old electric motors with some scotch-brite will usually get them running again just fine. Same with the brushes. Add some dielectric grease to the contacts, and that Bosch starter might work great.
I resurrected a wiper motor on an old Spitfire in just this way. Worth a try?
In reply to TVR Scott :
Woohoo! Chinesium / Bosch JY hybrid starter plus whatever I gained with shorter cables means she hot-starts consistently and quickly.
im tempted to put the battery back in OE position to see if the problem comes back. If it does, I can conclude that the problem is in the long B+ cable.
Sweet! I'm glad the motor clean-up worked!
After the hot start success, I wanted to take her for a drive. I kinda forgot that I didn't finish the mount for the WRX seat, doh! So I spent some time working on that. Got most of it figured out, cut the old mounts off the WRX seat, but didn't make it to the "fab new mounts" phase yet. They're gonna be a nice addition.
Those look great.
Where did you end up on the keep/sell spectrum with this car?
preach said:Those look great.
Where did you end up on the keep/sell spectrum with this car?
I have two people kinda trying to buy it. I'm definitely not selling until after 2024 challenge at the absolute earliest. And when I get handling balance worked out I might not want to sell it at all. I can definitely see myself making it more streetish and keeping it a few more years. Or installing a cage and fire suppression and doing track day stuff.
tldr: no idea.
You'll need to log in to post.
