Mustang SVO RallyCross/Stage Rally

Snows will be fine, just watch the sharp rocks and ditches and make sure your spare is ready to go.

For the LED bar, I bet you'll have plenty of close range light and maybe be a little short on distance- looks like there's room underneath the platform for some more if you find that you need them.

I forget, is the front lower balljoint on the SVO a bolt-on?  If so it probably wouldn't hurt to carry a spare since they're so heavily loaded with the spring on the control arm.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

SVOs were originally staked in, so the whole arm needed to be replaced when the joint was worn. So i converted to SN95 pressed in joints, I hadn't thought about them being an issue though, maybe I need to put a few tack welds on them?

I know some of the other fox mustangs that have run stage rally ran both conventional coils with coilovers to try to unload the balljoint, but compound springs seem like they would be hard to predict and tune.

In reply to olso3904 :

In that case I'd just leave it and see how it works, like you said it's not many stages.

Looking good!  Glad to see progress on one of my favorite grm projects.

Cant wait to see how you do. Cage work looks great.

I went over to my friend's house today to help him put in a garage heater and thought it would be a good time to shakedown the mustang with the new suspension and turbo restrictor. I made it it about 3/4 of the way and as I was stuck behind some traffic moving slow, the rpms dropped to below 2,000, the car stumbled, then shut off. I coasted to a stop and restarted just fine, so I thought the new restrictor was maybe making it run a little too rich and bogging it down low, so when it restarted I kept the revs a little higher and it seemed fine, but the tach was jumping around at a steady speed and as I rolled up to a busy stoplight in a small town, it shut off and refused to restart. 

My friend came by and we flat towed it to his house.

-Fuel pump is making noise and the schrader valve seems to have fuse supplied to it 

-Plugs, coils, cap, rotor and TFI module are new, but that isn't saying too much

I am going to read up on jumping the pins to get a code readout, which will be interesting will the hacked up dash, but I will probably through in my backup module and coil tomorrow and see if I can get it home. I am on vacation the week of thanksgiving, so that leaves me with roughly two weeks to get it sorted. 

I am really leaning towards ignition, hopefully a new TFI fixes it, but even if it does, it's strange that it burned this one after less than 1,000 miles.

In reply to olso3904 :

I'd also be looking hard at ignition components, but if all else fails crank it over with the distributor cap removed and watch the rotor- if the aux shaft drive is stripped or failing the rotor won't spin consistently or potentially at all, which can cause all sorts of confusing timing problems.  Not saying it's the most likely problem, but I chased a bunch of stuff before realizing that was the problem on one of mine.

Tach jumping at steady speed is your main diagnostic here. Probably the module, or wiring somewhere in the ignition circuit.

Yeah, it sure sounds like a TFI, but we will see when I swap in my old one. I had replaced it earlier this year trying to troubleshoot a bog issue at the high end that ended up being an O2 sensor. I also ordered a TFI relocation kit to see if I can get some more life out of them and make a replacement easier. It seems like a there is no quality supplier for TFIs, the reviews for Motorcrafts are as bad as the white box modules.

I'll have to take a look in the distributor too and see if I have an aux shaft issue as long as I am at it.

2.3s must have a sense for when they are about to rallied and decide to drop ignitions out

So I stopped by my friends house after work and dropped in my original TFI and it fired right up and ran.... for about 5 seconds. Then sputtered off and wouldn't restart. I bought a new module on my way over and swapped that in and it did the exact same thing. Fired up and ran for about 5 seconds, then quit and refused to restart. 

I pulled the #4 plug wire out and connected to a spare plug and it had during cranking it had good spark.. and reeked like fuel 

So with the bad reputation of TFIs and the fact that swapping one in make it run, if only temporarily, I think I still have an ignition issue. So when TFIs fail, do they still allow spark? Would a bad ground/PIP cause a TFI to fry? I basically have one more try after work to get the car running, otherwise I am going to drag it back to my house on a trailer. Then I am gone for a week, and will have 5 days after work to get it running before the race. I still haven't jump the diag port, is that the next move?

You have spark and fuel, so... timing?  Maybe it runs for a little while until the timing starts moving around and then gives up?  I have also had success in the past with unplugging the VAM or TPS to get it to run when sensors or wiring were going bad.

The only intermittent TFI failures I've had have resulted in a loss of spark after things got hot, never just 5 seconds.  Seems like something else may be wrong, I have had the connector for the TFI module fail and wires get loose before so that could be worth a look.

You can check the diagnostic codes, although every time I have done it it basically says "everything is wrong."  Still might point you in some direction though.

The main thing I'd say with diagnosing 2.3T failures is to go back to basics and never assume anything is good until you can prove it.  You have spark so I'd check timing and firing order- if those are good look at fuel (pressure, injectors firing, etc.).  If those are good check compression, cam timing, ECU grounds and wiring, that sort of stuff.  If you can get it to run, even very badly, it becomes a lot easier to figure out what's wrong.

I'm sorry to hear it's giving you trouble, you're right that they can sense the worst possible moment to crap out on you.

Im wondering if the PIP or TFI is allowing spark, but not triggering the injectors. It did make a big POP when it shut off, which would make me think it was a lean condition, that mixed with the tach dropping out, makes me point to the PIP. The biggest issue is, it is dark by the time I get home and the car is 40mins from my house, on my friends driveway. I think my best plan to still make the race is to order a distributor and rent a trailer to get the car into my garage

In reply to olso3904 :

I carry a spare distributor in the car at all times for this sort of thing, so that could be a good plan.  You could see if it will run consistently on starting fluid as part of your diagnosis.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Good idea, I just ordered a complete distributor with PIP and TFI from Summit for $100.

I also just read that a TPS shorted will cause the ECU to cut the injectors and after a tough search for a TPS, I found one from Standard and ordered it, it should show up tomorrow.

I am going to rent a trailer and go pick it up after work tonight and try a few things to diag, hopefully I can narrow it down to a few components to swap. If it needs an ECU, looks like I am pretty screwed, lead time is months.

In reply to olso3904 :

These cars tend to have a lot of TPS issues is seems, mine was notchy and also not returning to ~0% consistently, leading to a varying idle RPM.

In reply to olso3904 :

It will run and drive without the TPS attached so you could try unplugging it.  Which ECU part numbers are valid options for this car?  If it can use the stock one from either of my Merkurs I'll ship it, I use Thunderbird stuff now.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to olso3904 :

It will run and drive without the TPS attached so you could try unplugging it.  Which ECU part numbers are valid options for this car?  If it can use the stock one from either of my Merkurs I'll ship it, I use Thunderbird stuff now.

Likewise I have both a big and a small VAMs on the shelf and both a stock Merkur computer (plug n play in the Mustang) and an LA3 (would need to repin a couple things, but easy to do)

Yeah, looks like an LA3 would work with some repinning, but we will see if it gets to that. I appreciate the help guys!

So I went over to my friends house with a rented trailer after work. I hoped it sitting in time out a few days would have fixed something, but when I hit the key, it fired once and went back to spinning over without a hint of life. So.... onto the trailer

When I got home I messed around with it a little bit

I had a fuel filter on the shelf that I have meaning to put in, so I did and while it was out, I hit the key and sure enough fuel poured out of the line

I checked the injectors with the ignition on and it had 12V

I disconnected the TPS and cranked, no fire

I disconnected the VAM and cranked, no fire

Dang, but I did notice that while cranking the tach sits at 0 and doesn't even flicker. I can't remember if that's normal or not, but you would think even during starting, the tach should read cranking speed right? If so, it would again point to it needing a PIP/Distributor, which I should have by Friday. 

The plot thickens:

I checked fuel pressure at the rail and it was good, roughly 40psi and he noid light triggered, so my theory that the injectors were not pulsing is not longer true.

I pulled the spark plug on #4 and it was drenched in fuel and has spark.... hmmm

Roughly checking timing by moving to TDC and pulling the cap showed the rotor at the #1.

Welp now I am lost. I'm going to hose it with some starting fluid after work and see if it will fire, if it does, I'm not even sure what to do with it. I did just fill it up about 15 minutes before it died, so I am a little suspicious that I could have bad fuel, but that seems like a cop out at this point.

In reply to olso3904 :

Have I mentioned that this engine is terrible and hates running?

Does the fuel pressure stay there while running for those initial 5 sec?  Can you swap the injectors for another set?  You haven't put the new distributor in yet, right?

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Haha, I am baffled at how hard this engine is working to not run.

I actually can't get it to start anymore, I only got it to fire twice, after switching modules, but changing modules since has not gotten to fire again.

I have some injectors I pulled out a few months ago for having external leaks, but I am almost certain it is getting fuel. The plugs are drenched in fuel after cranking the engine..... and it has spark... and I just confirmed the timing is correct.... and I hosed it with starting fluid last night and didn't get a single hit off of it....

I'm getting the distributor I ordered today, I guess it's still possible it has spark, just not very good spark? Or the fuel I put in it the 10 minutes before it died is tainted?

I noticed one thing kind of odd, the cam gear doesn't have any molded timing mark on it, just a pair of paint marks that appear to be in the wrong spot. I thought about moving the belt over to line it up with the timing mark, but this issue doesn't seem to be a cam timing issue. Depending on how replacing the dist goes tonight, I might be pulling the valve cover off... or the head. I think if I can't get it going by saturday, I will have to pull out of the race, between gear rental, trailer rental, hotel and entry fee, I can save myself about a grand, that I can then throw towards fixing this pile of E36 M3

I would also take a look at the wiring, bad ground, etc...

On the cam timing, I would think if the belt is tight there's almost no way it jumped.  A compression test is easier than resealing the valve cover so I'd be tempted to try that first, make sure you get the right adapter since you need a weird long one.

For fuel, I'd pull the whole rail and crank it to watch the injectors fire- that will tell you if they're delivering fuel in a reasonable way vs sticking open or something like that.

For spark, I'd get a timing light on it and check that it's firing at close to the right time.  You can also aim the light at the cam pulley and figure out roughly where TDC should be relative to your marks.

I've been where you are, it's the worst and I hope you find whatever garbage is making it not run soon.

I know you unplugged it, but check the door (can get stuck) and the voltages on the VAF? Also check the pigtail wires for damage, they are probably as brittle as the rest of your harness. Good luck!