Mustang SVO RallyCross/Stage Rally

Stinger's PimpX plugs right into the OEM computer connector (actually comes in an OEM computer case) and you only need to swap a wire or two and add the wideband and a MAP hose to get it running.  You should add an intake air temp too, but that is easy and you can re-purpose existing underhood wiring that you remove with the PimpX, like the knock sensor wire which right where you need it.

I'm not so sure about mucking about with the ignition system.  The TPI is fairly simple and pretty robust, especially if you relocate the TPI module to the fenderwell using a later model heat sink.  I have not done that myself, and have never had a problem with my TPI module, but I plan on it just as a precaution since it is a known trouble point (overheating the module).  Getting rid of the distributor doesn't fix the aux shaft gear issue, as you still need it to run the oil pump which is a MUCH greater load on the gears than the distributor itself, which is essentially zero load in comparison to  the pump.

Glad to see that you have your compression back.  145 is right where it should be with a stock cam.

I finally got some time to work on the car and after the timing belt replace, the car fired right up and sounded alot meaner than it did before. I'm suspicious that aftermarket gear may have been causing some other issues as well. Hard to say what the root cause of it jumping that much timing was, I still think there was an ignition issue, since my tach was dropping out just before the car stalled entirely.

I still need to cleanup the wiring after blowing it apart to check for shorts and I am waiting on a compressor housing gasket, since I had to split the turbo to get the restrictor out. Then I should be able to put it together and set the ignition timing.

Not sure what my racing plans are, Ojibwe is a long way out and I need to check my budget and vacation time for traveling out to a race. I might just hit some rallycrosses this spring and figure it out from there, just glad to have a running car again. Thanks everyone for the help!

Here is the source of the issue

I added a TFI relocation kit while it was torn apart

Factory gears and timed correctly

I think that might be a Speedway pony stock "cheater" pulley but I'm not sure- glad to hear that the car is running again!

Officially fixed, timing took a little bit without the cover markings, but its dialed in now. It even has a little smoother lowend without the cam advance. Test drive with the adjusted suspension went really well, the car straightlines nice, pivots and leaves corners alot nicer without the rear sway bar and higher ride in the front. Too bad there was no Nemadji rally this year

In reply to olso3904 :

While the timing is accurate, add your own marks!  Mine has bright red paint pen on everything at TDC to make it easy in the future- it's a non-interference engine so you might even have reason to throw a new belt on it during a rally at some point.

I just realized it's been almost a year since my last post and it was of the car being ready to rally...... which never happened. My plan was to run Headwaters or Nemadji regional rally to shake the car out, before signing up for Ojibwe. Instead Headwaters and Nemadji have been cancelled repeatedly and even local rallycross has been canceled due to insurance or covid or land owner issues. In the last year I also moved from the burbs of Minneapolis to northern MN, which made trying to run Ojibwe with an unproven car out of reach this year.

So, I have been occasionally bombing backroads and commuting with the Mustang and waiting for any sort of track day or to open up. Still, some issues are popping up and with no racing on the calendar for the near future, I think it's time to strip it down and fix some issues.

1. The factory steel and rubber hose setup for cooling lines to the turbo and heater core are corroded and soft and although they aren't leaking now, there isn't much holding them together, so I might convert to silicone hoses where I can and steel lines just to the turbo. 

2. I have had a few catch can setups on the car, but no matter what it blows oil out of the PCV and valve cover breather. The root of the issue is the connections of the breather to the valve cover is just a worn out press in and the PCV is just a rubber grommet. I think I might just go to threaded fittings on both and bigger lines and breather on the catch can. But is has made a huge mess all over the engine and transmission, which is now coated in oil and grime. The PCV is in under the lower intake, so the intake needs to come off and while that's off, i'd be a good time to port and polish right!?

3. I still need to tie the front struts to the cage and put in ingress bars to the floor, also a good reason to pull the engine to get access. 

3. #1 issue that bothers me on this car is the rat's nest of wiring it has. I removed everything that wasn't being used, but even so, the harness is a crusty knot and full of deadend and poorly routed. Not sure what I should do about it. I know there are lots of aftermarket harnesses, but I may look into doing a custom harness and only tap into the factory wiring for the engine harness. Not sure yet. 

4. With the engine out, I really want to cleanup the engine bay and make the front end lighter. I'm thinking of cutting off the front end and going to a tube front. It would be nice to be able to quickly pull the front clip of the car to work on it, while getting rid of the big beam bumper and sheetmetal front end. Kits are super cheap, but I think I could make it myself pretty easily. ARA rules seem pretty open about how tube front ends are constructed, but I think I 1.75" .083 tube for the frame rails and down bars with 1.25 or .75 for fender supports would work. Although, I wonder if leaving the frame rails and just doing tube downbars would accomplish the same thing without raising issues about crash worthiness. 

6. The rear axle is still doing a good job of removing itself from the car. The original bushings came apart soon after buying it. The replacement poly bushing disintegrated in the first rallycross. It now has factory rubber upper arms and poly lower, which works pretty well for normal driving, but creates a wild driveshaft shake when doing a hard pull at high speed or letting off the gas too fast. I could replace the arms again, but I think a better solution would be to go to rod end lower arms and a torque arm/panhard setup. I think I will just keep fighting upper arm bushing/mount issues and dealing with vibration and short travel. 

7. Overall the car is pretty crusty. It's an original Minnesota car and even though it wasn't driven much in the winter, is has normal rust in the quarters, and doors. It also is 3 or 4 different colors of red, so while I am cleaning up the rust I might repaint the outside and engine bay and make it a little less beater-y 

Just picked up a cherry picker, so hopefully should have this blown apart soon!

Before you attempt any changes from the strut towers forward, I would run it by ARA tech- I know they had problems with a couple of tubes running past the strut towers on our previous car, no idea what their take on a tube front end would be.  Yeah, the pro teams run them but the pro teams have bribe money. 

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Good call, just sent Doug an email. I guess worst case, I could just replace the core support, header panel and bumper with tubing. Hopefully there is some option, to make this easier to teardown for service. Looking at how these frame rails were made from the factory, it's hard to make the safety argument about leaving it stock. 

Beat me to it. I know one of the e36 teams got a hard time at STPR for their tube bumper and Don told them it "wouldn't pass tech next time." That, or just hide it really well :)

And don't feel bad, not many of us got in any rally this year.....

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Wow, I didn't realize they were picky about bumpers too. Fox mustang bumper beams apparently weight 20lbs alone, which would have been nice to drop. No response from tech yet, so I guess I will just focus on fixing the rear suspension first. Think they would care if I switch to a torque arm suspension? Running 2wd Open, I didn't think they would, but I also havent been through tech yet. 

In reply to olso3904 :

You can go crazy with the suspension as long as it doesn't pose a safety risk.  Are you looking at a kit, or fabricating something?

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Hard to argue with Maximum Motorsports selling a kit for under $500, but even so, it looks like it would need some beefing up in the crossmember to subframe connector mounts. I would probably also try to tie into the sills or trans crossmember. 

Otherwise I might try to build it myself. It looks like MM uses a longitudinal bolt with bushings to pivot on, which I think would be the hardest to try to replicate, so I wonder why a horizontal johnny joint wouldn't work, maybe just too noisy?

Trail Gear 110775-KIT Trail-Gear Creeper Joints | Summit Racing

In reply to olso3904 :

Honestly if I were changing the rear suspension on something with a live axle for stage rally, I'd have a hard time coming up with something better than a parallel 4-link.  Yeah, it's not ideal in a lot of ways, but predictability is key and it seems to work for the Escorts and Volvos that are so common elsewhere in the world.

Looks like Gartrac's mk2 Escort kit uses rod ends and bushings, so I don't see why those Trail Gear joints wouldn't work too.

EDIT: That said, I recall reading somewhere that Mark Utecht actually did quite well across multiple rallies by just making sure the bushings and quad shocks were always in good shape on the stock Foxbody rear suspension.

EDIT EDIT: Went back a few pages and saw you talked to him.  Skip us and go straight to him with your suspension plan!

Yeah I talked to Mark for while and the rear suspension was the main point we talked about. 

His car had a pretty stout Windsor block, but apparently, they ripped the factory upper control arm mounts out and blew through arm bushings, ending up with factory rubber uppers and rod end lowers, but it sounds like it was still a weak point of the car. His advice was make sure the suspension points are attached to the cage, which my lowers are, my uppers are just reinforced to the floor

The Gartrac kit looks like it would be a good universal and adjustable solution, but between drag racers and road racers and other rally cars, it seems like throwing away everything and going for a parallel 4-link isn't usually needed, you just need to get rid of the upper arms, or make them do less work. Maybe a good starting point is to add a panhard bar (which will be needed no matter what suspension I go to) and see if that settles the car down. I just need to track down the vibration issue. 

In reply to olso3904 :

What about keeping your lower links and making entirely new upper links tied into the cage above them?

If the bushings are shot they're probably letting the pinion move all over the place, that would be my assumption for the vibration problem.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

That's where the torque arm rabbit hole came from, it would eliminate the need for upper arms and also work like a big skid plate!

Yeah, it seems likely. The upper arms still look good, but the lowers are the same brand of poly arms as the upper were, that blew out on the first rally cross. They looked ok when I pulled them down last summer to grease them, but I have also noticed the car has a dog track when I did my last alignment, so something is blown out, or the car is crooked, which..... is possible.   Once I get the engine out, i will lift the car up and swing the axle out and take a look. Last time I blew the upper arm bushings, the car was all over and constantly changed direction, but right now is straightlines pretty well, I even dove it 80mph for 3 hours moving to the new house. But should find out soon.

You mentioned your floor came apart on your rallyx mustang, what seam did you break?

In reply to olso3904 :

It was actually tearing the metal just inboard of the rockers- so if you look down between the door opening and the seat you would see light coming through.  I bet it won't be an issue with the cage but it's easy to check.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

That makes sense, not alot of structure in the floor there. 

My seat mounts are welded to the rockers, floor and up to the cage there, and my plinth boxes tie to the rockers and floor, so that hopefully shouldnt happen. The cowl to floor seem seems like a likely spot for a rock it, I was thinking thats were it may have happened. 

Doug emailed me back late last night saying simply a tube front end would be allowed in open, not allowed in limited... sooo game on? With that hesitation I may just leave the frame rails and try to get some weight and bulk out of the core support and try to simplify the fender and bumper mounting where I can. I think where effort will pay off more in simplifying the wiring harness/ hose routing under the hood and in the dash. Look at this rat's nest

I also got the engine and trans out, which went smoothly except for the trans crossmember bolts being seized in the bushings, and my angle grinder was blowing sparks into my big pool of spilled trans fluid. So, instead I sawzalled the crusty trans crossmember and everything came out easy after that. 

Now, I just need to get the car up on stands and pull the rearend out, to figure out what damage has been done there. I'll probably have to take a break for awhile though. When my wife agreed to move 200 miles north to a house in the woods with a shop, a kitchen remodel was also part of the deal, so I need to learn how to do tile work before the new cabinets get here in January. 

Ah, good stuff. Though the BMW I was talking about was definitely running in open, so they must have loosened the rules up a bit. 

In any case, I don't see much competitive benefit in running 2WD limited vs. open unless you're really at the pointy end of the stick. While there are a few really fast cars in O2 (like Hooper's Lexus, a few BR-Zs, and a couple built RX-7s), most of them run the national series. At the regional entry level, L2 tends to have more of the modern FWD hot hatches and things like that, which are often very fast, while O2 is where the older cars tend to play since it's more mod-friendly to make the older cars better/faster. But if you look at results in the regional entries, O2 is not necessarily "faster" overall than L2 at many rallies.

Because I like stats, here's entry at STPR last year (STPR is a good example because it is one of the biggest entry lists):

Regional 2WD finishing order:

1. O2 2011 Fiesta R2 (2:55) with a very, very experienced/fast Irish driver and probably the "most built" car in the class. 

2. L2 2011 Fiesta (3:02) with a fast driver also

3. L2 2003 Pontiac Vibe (3:03) with a very fast driver

4. 02 1985 BMW (3:03) with a not particularly fast driver (ME!) bud didn't have any crashes or mechanical issues 

5. L2 1997 GTI (3:04) fairly experienced driver

6. L2 2011 Fiesta (3:04) fairly experienced driver (who is young an on full-go all the time)

7. O2 1996 Golf (3:08) very experienced driver and they would have been around 2:58 if not for an electrical issue on the last stage that cost them 10 minutes)

8. L2 2017 Fiesta (3:14) no idea 

If you go down the list, the only Regional RWD car that even finished with no major issues was us, which is why we finished so high as many faster cars/drivers crashed or broke. 

If you look at the National RWD standings, O2 was 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th (and the 4th place L2 BR-Z is very well-built with an experienced crew)

The moral of this story is......enjoy running open, it's not going to reduce your chances of winning if you stay in regional. And also, make the car reliable because if you just finish you'll beat a good chunk of the field in Open, since most of us are running old-ass cars lol. 

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Yep, I think I am firmly in O2 territory. Makes me wonder how well some of these rule details are communicated though and if it's worth an argument anytime you go through tech. 

Now that the engine bay is cleared out, the stock rails are in decent shape, so I may hold off on whacking them off until I have a better reason (they get bent). My plan now is to just leave the rails and cut off the upper and lower core supports and replace them with bolt ons, which should free up space to take the fenders and nose off easier and make mounting the skid plate easier. 

I got a little side tracked this weekend. My dad dropped off a Polaris colt that needs drive cogs. Should be good for ripping aroung the yard

Wow, I knew it's been awhile, but didn't realize it's been over 2 years. 

I have been slowly getting the mustang back together, but my motivation has been lagging. I now live almost 200 miles north of Minneapolis, so getting south to Rallycross with LOL or Iowa is a much bigger commitment and I now have kids that makes doing ARA events out of my budget. Even so, the engine bay is cleaned up and engine back in and running. The wiring harness has been stripped of all the radio and HVAC and I built a new dash. 

I also starting racing harescrambles to scratch the racing itch and going into my 3rd season, I'm having enough fun that I bought a new bike. .

And then, another project that I have been wanting for awhile came up for sale locally and I jumped on it. 

And now with my racing habit covered and a new project in the garage, the Mustang is languishing and I think it might be time to sell it. 

Unfortunately, this thread has a tragic end. 

After building this car, but struggling to get it on stage, with moving and having another kid, I put my car up for sale with the hope that someone would make good use of it and get it racing. 

The guy that bought it was Neil Thomas Carlinschauer, who I ended talking to for hours with when he bought it and talked with regularly as he prepped the car and raced Ojibwe and LSPR. I would send him pictures and input on what I found when building the car and he would send me updates on how the build was going and how the race went. 

I was planning on volunteering at Nemadji, but had a friends thanksgiving party come up late that I decided to go to instead. I usually get message after the race from him and thought it was weird he hadn't said anything even the next morning after I sent him one after he would have already long finished. When I was looking for results the next morning I found out that he had passed after a crash on stage. 

I'm still in shock and not being there I don't know anymore than anyone else. I also don't have any real message about safety or car building, I really have no idea the circumstances of the crash and no matter what the cause was, I still feel a heavy weight of having built the car originally. 

I really just want people to know he was an incredibly nice guy and he had an infectious amount of enthusiasm for racing and the rally community was very lucky to have him for the time we did. 

I also saw/heard about this, and had talked with Neil a bit a while back about rally and car prep.  I don't have other information at the moment but feel free to PM me if you'd like.

:(

I was afraid to open this thread