In reply to OjaiM5 :
It's been a real mixed bag with the car. If I had gotten a better one, I might have been smitten. I'm just ready to move on. The E34 needs extensive work, so much so that I might buy a clearer one. It's been a bit of a rough year for my cars this year
MTechnically said:In reply to OjaiM5 :
It's been a real mixed bag with the car. If I had gotten a better one, I might have been smitten. I'm just ready to move on. The E34 needs extensive work, so much so that I might buy a clearer one. It's been a bit of a rough year for my cars this year
Maybe this is just me being nuts, but I think you should wait a couple months and just drive it in "fixed" condition. It sounds like you're frustrated with it, but you've really only driven it while it had issues. It seems like a nicely-driving M5 would something fun to own...and you know who did the work!
In reply to rothwem :
I've considered that line of reasoning for the past few months. It's not a decision I take lightly. I think the problem is that the experience with the car has not really lived up to the expectations I had going in. That and there's been significant scope creep with this car. It was supposed to be my DD for most of the year, and it's really becoming a bit of a project.
Even when it had been working well, I'm not sure I like the car enough to justify the cost. I've just never really felt comfortable with it.I I've been hanging on to the idea of keeping it. That's the reason I've continued to do the little things like the shift knob, windshield trim, and cowl.
But I realized that it's keeping me from taking care of my other cars and generally causing me headaches. I honestly think I'll be happier without it. I'm also feeling up for a bit of a change of pace.
I've realized that my fleet has a little too much overlap between the M5 and what I envision the end goal of the E34 to be. With that in mind, the replacement is going to fill a role that I don't have covered. Needs to haul the kids, do HD / Lowe's runs, tow a little, be unflappably reliable, and I'd like to camp out of it.
step 1: buy focus wagon with manual trans
step 2: M5 powertrain into E34
i look forward to following this thread.
:-)
In reply to AngryCorvair :
I like where your head is at. Going to go just a little bit bigger than a focus for the replacement.
The plan with the E34 has always been to S50/52 swap. I've already got the ZF310 and 3.23 LSD in the car, which is basically the E36M setup. I'll have to see if that's enough power for me. If not, I'll probably go the FI route. I've always imagined the car being my interpretation of an Alpina B10 Biturbo touring. I will almost be painting the car in Alpina blau at some point. Basically this, but a wagon.
A friend of mine is going to sell me his Dinan stage 2 (non-turbo) e34 535i - It has almost 200k on the clock. I am going to try and do the s52 swap. I believe it is the perfect set-up, unless you have the coin for a S38 - but who does???
I secretly like the size and feel of the e34 better than the e39. But the Powa! The s62 power is addictive.
In reply to OjaiM5 :
Personally, if I had a 535i and wanted more power I'd hold out for an S38 or go the turbo route. If it's a true Dinan stage 2 car, I'd consider preserving the car as much as possible. Probably going to be worth something in the future.
If you want an S52 powered E34, a 525i really is your best starting point. It's as simple as an engine swap can get. But if a friend is offering it up for the right price, definitely go for it.
Old german cars are all projects. They all can empty your wallet in a hurry, especially if you want to DD one. It's not really a matter of if, but when, one will require a large cash infusion.
In reply to docwyte :
Sounds like someone who seeks from experience. I expected to spend something like $2-3k a year on the M5. It's kinda just the nature of the beast. But this car exceeded all my expectations!
So I did something dumb today. I wanted the M5 gone, so I took it too a dealer to see what they would give me for it.
They offered me wholesale. A measly $8k. That's not even insulting. It's absurd.
They got a crack at it, because they had what I was looking for. Thought the process could be painless if I traded the M5 to them and took this off their hands.
So, I'm in the market for a 100 series. I'd prefer the LX470, because for some reason (they don't have a Land Cruiser badge) they are cheaper than their Toyota cousins.
I know that AHC is known to be a bit problematic, but for my needs I think I'll take the trade off. Definitely a departure from the current fleet, but I think it will be a perfect addition.
So lesson learned, the M5 has to be sold private party. I'll probably post an add here if anyone is interested.
Post an ad. Selling here is so much better than a dealer trade.
Yeah, I know that is the right way to go about it. I was just willing to take a little hit for the convenience of the deal. Now comes the offers of rusty bicycles and questions of what I'm willing to take.
Something like an E39 M5 will definitely cost more than $2-3k a year to maintain, particularly if you're DD'ing it and aren't doing all the work yourself. BTDT unfortunately with older Audi's.
100 series are stout but be careful of the mileage on them if you don't have a complete service history. We had a GX470 from 39k miles to 127k miles. Up to 115k miles it was a typical Toyota. Gas, oil, tires, 2 sets of brake pads. From 115k-127k miles it needed:
Alternator, 2 batteries, radiator, both front axles, shocks/struts, water leak from the front roof rack foot, tires, brakes, tune up, all fluids and what made me finally sell it, the steering rack was leaking. Apparently the rear air suspension and seconday air pump like to die at 125k miles too.
Even with me doing almost all the work myself I put $7k into it over 9 months and the steering rack was going to cost almost $3k more...
In reply to docwyte :
I'll have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of E39 M5 maintenance. $2-3k is pretty widely excepted for a car that had been well cared for. General maintenance items are not that expensive for this car. Brakes are $200 per axel for pads and rotors, a service II kit (cabin air filter, engine air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs, and oil change) is $200. Transmission and differential fluid changes are about $100 each.
Obviously, driving the car more is going to drive things up a bit, but not exponentially. Even with all the work I had to do and have done, the parts cost was not that extreme.
I had fully intended on doing the majority of the maintenance. I just didn't anticipate the depth and breadth of the maintenance I would need to do. I had a list of maintenance done by the PO, and I relied on the PPI to catch the basics. When the car came back with a clean PPI, I felt comfortable with buying the car. I figured I'd have to address things here and there. I just don't have the time to rebuild the entire suspension all at once on my daily driver. Especially when the car fights back.
Thanks for the heads up on the LX. After my experience with the M5, I will insist on detailed service records. It does sound like you had a bit of bad luck with your GX. I've never heard of an LX needing that amount of work with that few miles in my research.
Your personal experience with the M5 belies your argument... 
They're old cars now. I don't care how the previous owner took care of it, they're gonna need more than a few grand a year to keep up, particularly if used as a DD and seeing 10-15k of mileage a year.
In reply to docwyte :
My personal experience is exceptional. It would be absurd for me to extrapolate from what I've dealt with and assume it's typical.
I probably wouldn't have bought the car if the tech who did my PPI did their job. The suspension had never been touched before my ownership. That was obvious the minute I started taking the car apart myself. Usually you don't have to replace all the suspension at both ends of a car at the same time.
As I pointed out in my last post. Parts aren't super unreasonable, so if you do your own work it could be easily managed to my figures. I dug around for quite some time before buying the M5 and my numbers came up multiple times. You just need to avoid the curse of deferred maintenance.
I had a LX470 for 16 years 230K miles when I sold it for $6600. Followed recommended maintenance. Only unusual items were cracked exhaust manifold, power steering reservoir and ignition switch (failed after starting car too many times). California car after delivery to port so no rust issues. Michelin tires lasted 50K miles. Driver seat leather worn out and Nakamchi audio was failing. If I kept it I would have replaced audio with double din nav audio.
In reply to LarryNH :
Your experience is most typical of what I hear from 100 series owners. It's most likely I'll travel South or West to make sure to avoid the worst of rust concerns. AHC is the largest concern, but I'm willing to do an OME swap if it comes to that.
MTechnically said:So I did something dumb today. I wanted the M5 gone, so I took it too a dealer to see what they would give me for it.
They offered me wholesale. A measly $8k. That's not even insulting. It's absurd.
They got a crack at it, because they had what I was looking for. Thought the process could be painless if I traded the M5 to them and took this off their hands.
So, I'm in the market for a 100 series. I'd prefer the LX470, because for some reason (they don't have a Land Cruiser badge) they are cheaper than their Toyota cousins.
I know that AHC is known to be a bit problematic, but for my needs I think I'll take the trade off. Definitely a departure from the current fleet, but I think it will be a perfect addition.
So lesson learned, the M5 has to be sold private party. I'll probably post an add here if anyone is interested.
Just throwing it out there, since I don't know what your needs are, but you can probably find a same-year Sequoia for half the price of an LX470 (for the Sequioa, you'd want an 05-07), and pretty much the only thing you lose is the rear locker (if off-roading is your goal), and maybe a bit of style/more modern dash setup. If towing is one of your needs, the Sequoia is superior (and has more cargo space), IMO.
.well, I'm a bit biased, but they look really good with old BMWs ;)
In reply to irish44j :
Towing is low on the list of needs, but it's nice to have the capability. I need a reliable DD that can haul kids, run to HD/Lowe's, and off road capability would be like a nice perk as well.
The Sequoia seems to meet those requirements, but from what I've seen they aren't much cheaper if you want to buy a truck with around 100,000 miles. Seems like a Sequoia runs about $13-15k and the LX is roughly $16-20k. Couple that with the niceties of the LX and a few other features, which make me more willing to jump for the LX.
Admittedly, some of it also comes down to the Land Cruiser badge/brand. It softens the blow that I'm getting rid of my M5 for something that is still iconic, although in a different way. I have a bad habit of getting restless with cars I can't connect with. I want to find something that I can be happy with for a very long time (15+ years).The 100 series just has a better chance of hanging around than the others.
Well it's been a little while and there are a few developments and things to mull over as I get ready for car season.
First up is the M5. I won't dwell on it much, but most importantly the car has not sold yet. Maybe I am being too optimistic about the price, because I haven't had a ton of serious interest at this point. Or maybe listing in the Midwest, in the middle of January, wasn't the best strategy in terms of driving interest. It's hard for me to really get a good feel for the market on these cars, because once you ignore the cream puffs the market seems to be a bit all over the place. I avoided driving the car to keep miles off, but in the last week I have been driving it again. I'm hoping I get a serious offer soon or I might be tempted to keep it. The car really is a great all rounder.
The E34 has been dealing with the worst of the winter, and it's suffering for it. All of the doors have some form of rust starting, the A-pillar rot certainly hasn't gotten any better, and there are a few other small areas of concern that are starting to pop up on the car. I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that this particular car is probably not long for this world. It's best bits will almost certainly live on in another E34, because I am still a big fan of the chassis. It's a real bummer, since I really do love this car, and it started off with significantly less rust when I bought it. I learned a hard lesson with this car. This car's untimely death and the E39's maintenance bills have lead me to come to the conclusion that it's probably best to stop trying to daily drive my "classic" cars. I just don't have the constitution to subject cars I really like to the torture of salted roads.
The 2002 got uncovered this last weekend. It's really starting to endear itself to me. I pulled the cover off, hooked up the battery, cranked it for 10 seconds, gave it a few pumps and she started right up. There joy in the simplicity of this little car. Just driving it to the gas station a few miles from home and back was enough to put a smile on my face. The car needs a lot of work, but it's drivable for the time being. I think I need to sort a few things and get myself signed up for a TNIA or some sort of auto-X.
Of course the car could use new shocks and probably just about every bushing, so naturally I ordered up some newly upholstered door cards.
I've never liked how incomplete the lack of front door cards made the car feel, and the rear cards where recovered really poorly. Decided to be a little bold and I am having them done in cardinal red. The plan is to retain the dash and center consul in black, redo the Recaros in a red tweed and cardinal bolsters, and find a set of E24 rear buckets to do the same treatment with. I haven't decided if I am going to do the carpet in red or black at this point, but I think I am going to actively avoid that decision for the time being. I fear it will lead to a death spiral of "while you're in there" fixes, and I really want to make sure I can drive the car for most of the season.
Mechanically, I need to sort out the shifter. I have the parts to do a rebuild, but AGK Motorsports is just about an hours drive away. I am seriously tempted to get one of their sport shifters for a real quality upgrade. I also need a new battery hold down. Mine is missing and a few thick zip ties are in it's place. I also need to replace the front strut bushings. They are DONE.
The last thing I should really address before doing any serious driving, or even putting many more miles on the car is replacing the brake fluid reservoir. PO did a little bit of a Roadkill fix at some point, which would be fine if the goal is just to get you home.
I am uncomfortable with this being a more permanent solution. Need to paint some of the engine bay to ensure that surface rust doesn't get any more serious.
So even with the M5 up for sale there is plenty of work to do. I probably have two months until the really good weather rolls around, but that isn't much time for me these days. Need to make a more concerted effort to get out in the garage for an hour or two a night to start making real progress.
So the world has gotten significantly stranger than when I first started this project. I’m more motivated to take on a bigger project now. It gives me more to look forward to after being cooped up in my office all day. But I also find myself with less free time. Daycare is closed, parents are laying low, and weekends are being spent keeping the kiddos moderately entertained. I’ll admit that I’m also worried about being extra careful out in the garage. Now is definitely not the time to need stitches.
I’ve still managed to get out into the garage a few nights over the last week. The first goal was to remove the reservoir, master cylinder, and booster. Primarily to get them out of the way for paint prep.
Luckily, the rust is really just surface level here. Disassembly went relatively smoothly, but one of the hard lines stripped pretty badly when removing the master cylinder. I decided to order up the nice cunifer lines from Ireland Engineering after realizing how bad some of the connections look at the caliper ends. Better to be prepared when I eventually damage a couple more of those connections.
Since I am waiting on some parts and a few tools to show up at the house, I decided to try and clean up my brake booster. It will really look out of place with clean new hard lines and a new master cylinder if it still looked like this.
Hit it with a wire brush, simple green and some 320 grit. Then I tried a product that I haven’t used before. I picked up some Loctite Extend Rust Neutralizer at the auto parts store.
I brushed two coats on and let it sit overnight. Then I used some wet 400 grit to level the surface down a bit. I didn’t like how there were some apparent brush lines from my application. Not sure if that was the product or user error, and I’m not sure if I was counteracting my rust prevention efforts by sanding this stuff back, but since I’m going to prime and paint I’m not too worried about it. I decided to use some caliper paint I had lying around the garage. I'm generally more inclined to go with something less glossy, but I think it's a big improvement over the cruddy looking rust.
The grommet for the vacuum line could use a clean up, but it doesn't seem like they are readily available as part of a rebuild kit. I'd rather not have the booster sent out for a full rebuild just for that seal. I'll try to see what I can do to make this one last for now.
Last night I started tackling the drivers side front suspension. The front strut mounts are way past it as I pointed out before, but as I am getting things apart I'm noticing that things are a little worse than I anticipated. The sway bar end link was seized to the point of having to cut the nut off, the ball joint and tie rod are clearly past it, and the control arm bushings might just be original.
The control arm cleans up okay. It does seem like it's taken a slight beating, but I think they are salvageable. I'm planning on painting it with some POR15, but first I have some reinforcement plates on their way. I'd like to strengthen these up while I am rehabbing them, since brand new arms are $290 a piece. Overall, I'm happy with the progress I have made over the last few days. I've got a good bit of cleaning to do, since I've got this mess times two to work with.
I'm pretty excited to start getting some new parts on the car, and I'm very curious how different the car will feel after all this work is done. I used to think I had a pretty severe bump steer issue, which is why I've got roll center spacers coming, but I think most of what I was experiencing was semi-seized tie rod ends. Since I've never driven a sorted 2002, I'm kind of learning as I go with this car.
I don't think you'll regret a LX/LC. Sequoias are great, no question, but there's something intangible about my FJ 100 that I haven't been able to define in a clear enough way to justify it over a comparable 4Runner/Sequoia. Part of it is the feeling of driving a bank vault, part of it is the ability to shrug off anything I've been able to put it through with almost indifference.
A Sequoia would get you at least 90% of the way there. I'd much rather have one than a Suburban/Expedition. If I could get a Sequoia with the 5.7L for comparable money to a 4.7L LC, I'd probably do it to make towing easier. But for similar years/mileage, the extra few % in every category makes me glad I went with the LC.
In reply to neverendingprojectgarage :
With the pandemic going on I don't think I'll be selling the M5 soon. I don't think I'll regret either of the J100 series, but until the M5 sells there'll be no movement on that front. Which is dangerous since it gives me time to come up and convince myself of worse replacement options.
Remember when this was going to be a simple strut mount and reservoir replacement?
I should, since it was only a few weeks ago. But the simple fact is that I don't do well with knowing that things aren't 100% right, or at least close to it. The truth is that I've never really taken a serious look at the suspension on the '02, but now I'm a lot more familiar with the state of everything and the reality is that it's pretty berkeleyed. All the bushings are seriously dry rotted, both sway bar end links were seized in one way or another to the control arms, and the tie rods and ball joints are pretty terminal as well. That's just the front end. I'm sure there's plenty to deal with in the rear as well. A small victory is that, for the most part, everything has come off of the car without too much effort.
Almost all of the front suspension is now off of the car. I'll be taking some time to clean up the inside of the fenders. Does anyone know of a brush on rubberized undercoating? I was thinking of using POR15 and then undercoating over the top. I've never actually used POR15, so I'm not 100% on the finish it leaves behind. I don't really want glossy inner fenders.
Unfortunately, once I got the passenger side control arm off, it became clear that I'm not going to get off lightly with this project either. It's pretty corroded, which is less than ideal, but the big dent in the arm is cause for concern. I don't think I'm comfortable putting that part back on the car, but as I mentioned before these control arms are pretty pricey. As in nearly $300 per side, if you want shiny new ones from a vendor.
My shiny new cunifer lines came in late last week. I think they are going to look great once I get them installed. But, I might regret pulling out the old hard lines on the passenger side of the car last night. I think it's going to be a major job getting the new ones in, especially since I don't want to damage them. It's seeming more and more likely that I'll need an engine hoist at this point. The only problem with that is I don't really have a good place to put the engine. Garage clean up may be in order.
Along with the hard line kit, I ordered a few little upgrades when I was trying to keep this project relatively small. Urethane bushings for the control arm and torsion bars, offset roll center spacers (for -1.7 degrees of camber), and some new end links. I'll be cleaning up the front struts and then reassembling what I can.
Another big to-do, is get then engine harness pulled. It really doesn't make sense not to get it out of the car and properly clean it up now. I think I have about 90% of it disconnected, but I need to detach it from the engine bay fuse box and the firewall connections. I have to admit that I'm not looking forward to this job. Electrical work is not something I'm super comfortable with, but I guess that's kind of the point of this car. I'm supposed to be learning new things and at least the harness is very simple. Best thing I can do is take my time and try to limit making rookie mistakes.
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