My first Harley Davidson project!

TED_fiestaHP wrote: Looks like a few things are missing from that diagram. But seems to be using two battery sets, one set of 3 batteries for low speed and two sets of batteries for high speed. Reverse might have just low speed. Those look like standard starter relays, so replacements should be fairly cheap.

That is just a "heavy cable" diagram or something. Here is the other wiring diagram for it:

The "16 gauge control" diagram. I nabbed these diagrams from vintagegolfcartparts.com. Thanks for having them online!

So...I'm pretty sure I need new batteries. The only testing I've done so far is to charge them up and see if they'll haul a 200+ lb recently-turned-harley-golf-cart-enthusiast around. They really won't. Level ground is ok, but any kind of grade nets slower-than-walking-pace and get-out-and-push speeds and power levels. Maybe if I take off the leather chaps and vest?

I may try to actually test the batteries with a battery tester.

However, just a visual inspection of the batteries gives a clue. This is my kind of branding humor, right here:

That's right. This is "The Usable" battery. I'm sure they sell better than the alternative.

I surmise (and a brief google brand internet search engine exercise seems to confirm) that these are or were a refurb/blem/reman or otherwise used battery.

I'm sure I'll be buying 6 new batteries soon.

So if I'm getting 6 new batteries, is there anything wrong with using this old battery charger?

It has a full compliment of warnings, etc on the top that I haven't even read yet. Seriously, this is the entire top panel of the charger...that's the carrying handle in the middle:

I pulled a subconscious Sheriff Buford T. Justice when I saw all that print on there:

Anyway...the plug on the charger is anything but confidence inspiring:

I think I hold my breath and do a preemptive wince every time I have to touch it.

It looks like a replacement plug can be bought for about $20. That's no big deal. But if I should be looking at newer electronic, solid-state, magic, etc type chargers...let me know.

Seems I can get a $65 Electronic Charger on ebay. It's probably a slower charger...but that doesn't really concern me if it will work.

But if the old charger won't do any harm to the batteries, then that's fine too. The one I have sounds like a street light buzzing when it's charging. Typical old-school charger noises. But it makes me nervous to leave unattended. Maybe I'm paranoid. But it seems maybe the new ones are safer.

Generally speaking, if I think something might be unsafe, most people have long since left the scene for fear.

eastsidemav wrote: On a side note, I kind of want a Harley Topper to take to bike nights

I had no idea what a Harley Topper was until I just did a google image search. And you "kind of" want one? Those are (were) AWESOME!

I'm sure by now they make hens teeth seem plentiful.

ClemSparks wrote: ... The previous owner thought maybe the lack of reverse was just one of the solenoids being inop. ...

It dawned on me this evening that I had not actually TRIED reverse yet to see what, if anything, happened.

I turned the key to reverse and stepped on the throttle pedal. I heard definite solenoid clickety-clacking from the solenoid bank. No motive power, however.

Hmmm. I don't know what that means. I would have thought if the key switch or the solenoid(s) were bad I wouldn't hear clicking. But again, I haven't tried too hard to figure out this wiring scheme yet.

The relay contacts could be bad, so when they click (good coil) maybe nothing happens. Need to check to see if the relay contacts are actually making anything happen.

Right on. I'll see if I can get any voltage on the load side when I cycle it. First I have to find out which one "it" is...but that should be pretty obvious. Clicky-clunk!

Well...finding the solenoid that I need to be checking wasn't as easy as I thought.

I've been trying to get some google results for "description of how the heck this golf cart control system with 5 solenoids in it is supposed to operate?"

Still trying alternate variations of the above search string...

Turns out, the batteries aren't as bad as I thought they were. Only the lowest speed setting was working when I first got the cart. With a little bit of use, at least one more speed started kicking in. It's intermittent and I'll get to figuring that out eventually...but first I decided to tackle the problem of not having reverse...and I'll need some help from anyone who knows solenoids.

So it appears that my Forward/Reverse switch is working properly (this is a common failure point, but I have tested it and it does seem to work correctly). So I think my problem is with the reverse solenoid. It can be replaced...but it seems like an uncommon one.

The solenoid in the cart now is a 6 volt, 6 terminal, continuous duty solenoid. This has 4 "Load" terminals. Two that are normally closed and 2 that are normally open.

There's a place online that will sell me one for $125. Ouch. Now the internet is littered with 12 volt, 6 terminal, continuous duty solenoids.

My question is...can the 12v work in this case? What does the voltage spec refer to on a solenoid? Because the trigger voltage is more like 18 volts on these things. And the load side is seeing 18-36 volts.

If I have to buy the expensive, rare, 6 volt solenoid then that's what I'll do. But I'd hate to find out later there's no real difference or that a 12 volt one will work just fine for up to 12 Volts or something like that.

I'm really not sure why it's a 6 volt solenoid anyway...I don't see any way this could ever see as little as 6 volts...or anything less than 18. But just because I don't see it doesn't mean anything. I'm struggling with the function of this circuit. I'm feeling like Cal Naughton, Jr..."There's a pretzel in my head!" trying to figure it out.

This power contactor arrangement is very similar to an old school electric pallet jack. The forward and reverse contactors should have each have 2 moving sets of contacts one normally open (NO)and one normally closed (NC), they may not be visible, but they are in there. When you energize the F contactor and hear it click it should then have current flowing through the NO portion of the F contactor and also through the NC portion of the R contactor. Since you have F travel you can assume that you have continuity through half of each contactor. When you select R the opposite should happen, with the opposite contacts in each contactor coming into play. What it's doing is reversing the polarity of the stator to change the direction of rotation of the motor, notice in your schematic that both "S" terminals are connected to the F/R contactors.

In my experience, it's usually the NC sets of contacts that burn out causing an open circuit. It's also usually best to rebuild or replace the F&R contactors as a pair.

Thanks HappyAndy. Your description of how it works makes sense to me and it is what I was expecting. It's just that when I LOOK at the setup, I can't reconcile how it is all working. Part of it is that I don't know which terminals are normally open and normally closed, etc.

In the low speed there are actually TWO solenoids activated. The "B" and either "F" or "R" depending on the position of the Forward/Reverse switch.

Now my question remains...Can I use a 12V 6 terminal solenoid like this. Or do I really need to stick with the 6V 6 terminal solenoid like this (which appears to be what the cart is equipped with now). There is roughly a $100 price difference between the two.

In case it helps, here are a couple of photos of the solenoids. Here are all 5 of them. From left to right we have B, R, F, C, A. (This is opposite of the diagram because we're looking at it from the front of the cart.

And here are the 3 used in low speed operation. B, R, and F. Just a little closer shot to show what I'm working with.

Best I can tell the B solenoid and the F solenoid are both activated for Forward. The B and the R solenoid are activated for reverse. The C and A solenoids are used for faster speeds...as the throttle controller progresses when the throttle pedal is depressed.

At some point in the last couple of years, the cart quit working altogether.  I replaced one of the solenoids, but it had no effect.  Frankly,  I don't remember what all I've done...but it is buried in the barn under a pile of stuff.

Mrs. Sparks would be all sorts of happy if I could make this thing operate again in forward and reverse.

I've been hemming and hawing.  It seems like it would be REALLY cool to update this to some sort of solid state electronic speed controller.  And I'd think I'd be able to find threads online where folks have detailed this sort of refit.  But apparently it's not popular enough to warrant such discussion (I haven't been able to find any sort of tutorial on the subject).  Does anyone here know anything about that?  It seems like I'd remove all the solenoids and switchgear and replace them with a controller that connects to the motor, a throttle potentiometer (that I'd have to make work with the throttle pedal...or maybe just replace with a modular electronic pedal), and a forward/off/reverse type switch.  

The other alternative is to start testing what I have and FIND the actual problem so I can maybe fix it.  Does anybody have pointers on testing solenoids?  I can test for continuity, but I'm thinking you need to LOAD test them to make sure they are able to carry real current.

Sorry, just rambling.  I saw Pimpm3's ClubCar thread and it got me inspired to start thinking (and typing) about this again.  It's almost spring.

I JUST purchased on of these! 1975 - been very interesting reading about it. It is in really good condition. I bought new batteries and then had the solenoids wired and a couple of new cables - it is running great! Just ordered "brake pads" - others crumbled. It has a canvas top - curious if it is original. I do not have any pics on my computer (where I am typing this) - but will try to do it from my phone. Sounds like a couple people might be interested in seeing it. I am not typically INTO restoring golf carts - but I was in the market for one and just couldn't bring myself to buy new - I wanted something with some character! :)

Appreciate the dialogue - cool!

Very cool!

I sold the one for which this thread was started about a year ago after I happened upon a more modern (1994, lol) EZGO Marathon that already had working electronic controls.

Before that I had set my mind to upgrading the Harley Davidson cart to an electronic control.  

Yours looks to be a bit more complete and in better condition than mine.  A worthy candidate for a project!

Now I'm wondering how it would do with a LiveWire motor / control swap.

funny...more modern (1994) :) 

Yeah - thinking I may should have bought something a bit more modern, myself...lol.

well, I thought I would take a chance and see if you might be able to help...

went to use my cart and it only went in reverse. ??