Poor life choices - C4 content

In reply to Crackers:

It doesn't run well enough to drive.

I just had a thought...(uh oh)

I still have the original TPI distributor. The coil looks identical to the HEI one, and I'm guessing the ignition module is likely the same too. I still think the present issue is carb related, since that's what I touched last, but swapping the coil & module would be easier than pulling the carb again, and free too.

I figure if it runs worse then I know the TPI parts are suspect, if it runs better then I can get new parts for the HEI, and if it runs the same I can pull the carb apart again.

The coil is the same. Efi and carb modules are different.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Ah, well that's at least one thing I can try.

My wheel spacers arrived today, so I got them mounted.

It's not a huge change, only 20mm, but it should be enough to clear.

I attempted to start it too - it barely cranked at first, despite being on the charger overnight, but eventually turned over a few times, though it never fired. I checked spark & it's present, but I'm thinking it fouled the plugs. Pulling #1 & 3 seemed to confirm that, so I'll pull the rest of them too. I may check compression while they're out, now that hopefully the rings are seated.

What color was the spark? If it isn't blue/white it isn't good. If you were testing with a plug a better test is to stick a screwdriver in the plug wire and see how big of a gap the spark will jump (or buy an adjustable gap spark tester), a good HEI system should do something close to half an inch. Just be careful, getting shocked by ignition (even weak ignition) hurts like hell and probably isn't the best for cardiac health.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

I was using my HF inline spark tester, so it was just a whitish-yellow color inside the clear housing.

You could pull the module and have it tested at AutoZone for free.

In reply to Crackers:

I'll probably just pick up a new coil and module if cleaning the plugs doesn't work, and a compression test doesn't reveal any serious problems.

The tester you want is one that looks something like this.

A spark that will jump the small gap of a spark plug or inline tester is not necessarily powerful enough to do so inside a combustion chamber where the dielectric strength of the compressed charge is much higher than atmospheric air. It's analogous to trying to test a car battery with a volt meter and no load.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

That's cool! I've never seen one like that before, but it certainly makes sense.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

I have a funny story about watching spark shoot out the knees (to the bumper) of my father when grabbing the coil wire on a running Tempo that needed plug wires.

Most parts stores sell them, but you don't need one if you have a screwdriver with a thick plastic handle and somebody brave enough to hold it.

I pulled the plugs & cleaned them. I thought I had a compression tester, but apparently not - it has female threads on the end, so I'm not sure what it is, or why I have it...but I apparently needed it once.

So I reinstalled the plugs and tried again, but within 20-seconds the garage was a thick black cloud of raw gas. That was with all 4-doors open BTW.

At this point I'm just going to get a new coil & module, then if that doesn't fix it I'll probably save up for a new carb, so I can be sure it's not something I'm berkeleying up.

I picked up the ignition module and coil, and went ahead and picked up another set of plugs too...that's 3-sets in less than 50-miles FWIW. Even after cleaning/sanding, the ones in it now are pretty nasty. Although I'll wait until it's running at least a bit better before installing these plugs.

I doubt I'll have time to install them tomorrow, then I'm out of town for a week, so it'll probably just have to wait.

I spent most of this morning on the Vette. I replaced the plugs, wires, coil, and HEI module, taking time to triple-check connections, correct plug wire sequence, and positive connections of all terminals...and it still barely runs & is black-fog rich.

At this point I can either go back through the carb again, or save up for a new one. I'm strongly leaning toward option-2.

Pete's back!!!! Sorry it's still not running right. Is there some magic carb box you could build, pull vacuum on it and test the flow of the carb?

In reply to Stampie:

That's an interesting idea... Though realistaclly it may be easier to just find someone w/a car I can mount my carb onto.

I had another thought tonight too - I think I'll pick up a compression tester in the interim and make sure my engine isn't berkeleyed before dumping more $$ chasing problems.

What did you do to piss the car gods off this badly?

Didn't you mention having a spare vacuum secondary carburetor earlier? Maybe try that one?

Compression won't make it run pig rich.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

I have the carb from GTXVette, but I could never get the car to run with it(it's also packed up ready to send back to him). The 3rd carb is just a junk/parts carb I picked up before I got either of these two.

I was thinking if I'd lost compression on a cylinder or 4 it would cause the symptoms I'm having - won't idle, very rough running, massive quantities of black smoke, no?

I was talking to a friend earlier who just installed a FiTech setup and is thrilled with it. The Holley carb I was looking at was $340, but in all honesty I'm not sure it's really the right carb for autox. I have a feeling the carb I need is $500+, which is getting close enough to the $750 FiTech setup for serious consideration.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

Oh, and I'm pretty sure it's more than just the car gods I've pissed off, but the list is way longer than my memory.

Gasoline makes Black Eye burning Smoke

oil makes a whiteish blue Smoke that Is hard to breath and Feels "Oiley"

Coolant is white "wet" and smell's like Glycol.

next time it's running Pull the hose or PVC valve or plug from the Valve covers and see if you Have a Choo Choo Puff's coming out , It's a sign of Possible ring Failure . Take off the Rad. cap while it's Only a Little Warm and see If the water is Pulseating, That could be a bad head seal.. From what I just read that carb may be Flooding for some reason (I know you have the floats correct so pull out the site plugs while in the shop "Just to be sure the pressure isn't Fluctating" Procede as Normal.

GTXVette wrote: Gasoline makes Black Eye burning Smoke

That's exactly what it is.

I'll pull the breathers and see if I'm puffing out either valve cover. And you're correct - it wouldn't hurt to go through the float level procedure again too, make sure no fuel is spilling out the carb, etc.

On the bright side, if it's super rich maybe you've solved all the vacuum leaks?

I just checked the float height - the fuel level in both bowls are right at the bottom of the sight holes, so no change there. I also confirmed there is no gas dripping/dribbling/pouring out of the carb with the fuel pump on & car off. Both gauges read a steady 5.5psi of fuel pressure.

At this point, it seems like my troubleshooting options are:

1.) Get a new carb or known good carb from a currently running car to test with. Conversely, swap my carb onto a known good car to test.

2.) Check compression. Unless I've lost compression in 2 or more cylinders, I'm not sure this would show me much, considering how extremely rich it's (barely) running now?

Since I've ruled out an ignition problem, and it's so much more likely I'm fighting a carb problem than an internal engine one, I think I'll keep working that direction. I just have to figure out which route I want to pursue.