Did they put cats back on it for you?
Did they put cats back on it for you?
In reply to docwyte :
Negative! It still has none. I found some used axle back mufflers that toned it down such that now only 60% of my neighbors greet me with stank-eye.
Um, that's illegal for them to sell you a car like that, so I'd be all over them to get you factory cats for the car. Plus removing that adds no power at all, so there's no reason to remove them. Besides the fact that factory cats are insanely expensive to purchase new. I'd be looking on the forums to find someone that's removed them and is willing to sell them to you for a decent price. It's illegal for junkyards to sell them....
In reply to docwyte :
Oh wow! From a practical standpoint is there a reason I want these cats other than they're worth $ and I should have gotten them? I get the baby seals and polar bears but other than that is there something? My other hesitation would be the tune. It has never thrown a code but for when an intake coupler came loose. So it is certainly tuned for this no-cat setup. I think adding them would mean time and money in the tune department. I get that removing them doesn't add hp but they're already gone so if adding them won't add hp either I'm wondering if I should leave well enough alone. If I'm missing something I'm all ears since I certainty did not know much of what you already told me. So thanks!
April '21. VW is in storage. I need to sort and get a handle on this Ford. Honestly, I'm scared of it. So I need seat time. Track Night in America to the rescue:
I can do: A weekday at Blackhawk Farms (4.5hrs away), a weekday at Gingerman (3.5hrs) and Sat or Sun at Putnam Park (1hr). Street tires and $65 "Track Day" pads from RA every few weeks and life is good. I took out a wrench once or twice but nothing notable and certainly nothing that threatened to compromise the long drive home. I'm enjoying this new trouble-free life. Don't worry, I found some wood to know on after making that last statement.
Season ends in the fall and I've a had lots of windshield time to think about the VW. At some point I saw a youtuber who was furious with his engine builder for powdercoating his valve cover. He blamed it for destroying his freshly built motor. I thought it was just theatrics until he explained that the powdercoating required sandblasting and that it is nearly impossible to remove all the media without drilling out the baffle rivets and cleaning inside the baffling. Google confirms this IS a thing. You can't be serious!!! All these years of too frequent oil changes, good gas, too frequent coolant and timing belt changes and I may have ultimately killed this motor because I wanted a shiny valve cover?
I go pull the oil pan and there is what looks like glittery antiseize everywhere. It was conclusive. If you imagined what type of paste would be made if you mixed oil with sandblasting media, this was it. Jiggle the end caps and bearings essentially don't exist. So correction, the paste = oil plus sandblasting media plus bearing dust.
I eventually find a seemingly perfect solution: A 60k mile Jetta auto at a yard a couple towns over. It's smashed in the back - check. Motor is still installed and I got to hear it run and confirm the mileage - check. I'm guessing there's little market in central Indiana for a 1.8t so they were sick of looking at it and quoted me $500 over the phone the day before. After taking a look and a listen, they pulled the motor while I went to rent a $15 Uhaul trailer. In the meantime the yard manager/owner must have done his research. I think I lost my poker face for a bit and let some giddiness shine through. He then worked hard to try and make me pay more or make me walk away so he could then market it for what it was really worth. He didn't know that his wife had caught me on my way to my to my Jeep and asked if I would pay before I left to get the trailer because she handled the money and might want to leave early. So "Sir, this engine is already mine. Here's the receipt." This bravado may have been misguided.
Get it home and tear into it. Wrong coolant. Pretty sludgy. It's an OLD lookin 60k mile motor. And those miles quite possibly were all done on the same oil. I cleaned it up though. Cleaned up the head. New head gasket. New timing stuff. Freshened wherever else freshening was needed. This will now be 100% a street car so I think we're good:
I focused on what mattered and let the outside remain a little crusty except for...wait for it...a freshly painted valve cover, this time scuff and shoot, no sandblasting. And I cleaned it like I was going to eat off it.
Install is the reverse of removal. Fingers crossed we have runner!
docwyte said:so there's no reason to remove them.
Errr...
But I agree. My R has an aftermarket catted downpipe and runs fine.
In reply to V2U_03 :
Ummm? Because be nice to mother earth and it's the right thing to do? Because why delete them if doing so doesn't add power and its your street car? Because clearly your tune is illegal in that it's fooling the readiness monitors and you might/will pass smog once the state starts checking for that? Because they're a TON of money to buy from the dealer and you're gonna need them? You legally can't sell your car without them, so....
The car will run fine as is with/without them. The tune clearly is turning (at the very least) the rear O2 sensors either off or forcing that readiness monitor to read "ready". At some point you'll need to address the tune for smog reasons. Don't know about where you live, but here in Colorado they're beginning to fail people if they have a tune that's not CARB certified.
If you have to flash back to stock and don't have cats, then that's a fail.
In reply to docwyte :
All valid points for sure! Thank u!
I got the new motor in:
Then I went about sorting the inevitable teething pains, the worst of which was the boost. It was coming on a little late, a little too abruptly and staying on too long. I used the turbo from the new engine because it had 130k fewer miles and the old turbo had a surprising amount of end play. I'm sure the sand/oil/bearing paste that ran through it did the turbo no favors either. But now there's an over-boost condition which leads to limp mode.
The MAF sensor, MAP sensor, N75 valve, diverter valve and wastegate/actuator all play a role in the process of calling for, maintaining and curtailing boost. So I start testing and switching things out. Nothing works for long. It is as if the computer, when it's running well, makes some adaptation that makes it run poorly again.
The boost issue gets put on the backburner when the oil pressure light starts coming on. My aftermarket oil pressure gauge says oil pressure is fine. So I replaced the factory sender, first with the old one then with a new one. No change. One day while working on it, it won't refire. Starter seems upset. So I switch around the old engine's starter, the new engine's starter and a starter that I had lying around that I replaced while it still had some life. They all performed the same...which is they wanted to but couldn't. I think this thing is locked up. Eventually I pull the pan:
Those thrust bearings have a job to do that does not include sitting at the bottom of the oil pan. And that oil suggests some internal goings on that I don't want to think about but for which I have some theories. I think I can claim victory over the pothole at this point but the sandblasting faux pas handed out another "L" and now the $500 engine is like:
How did those thrust bearings just fall out?
docwyte said:How did those thrust bearings just fall out?
Great question. Here's my theory. I don't think that motor ever took a trip longer than 5 miles. Never up to temp and definitely no Italian tune-up effect. I also don't think it ever or rarely had oil changes and the VW/Audi 1.8t is sludge prone even in good times. I think it developed an oiling issue that started wearing those bearings. Like the sandblasting, at some point I saw a youtuber explain that he was installing a twin disc clutch because super stiff single discs can put excess force on the crank and thus on the thrust bearings which locate the crank. Although it was now destined to be street car, the Stage 3 South Bend clutch I had on the old setup was still pretty much new so I had the flywheel resurfaced and reused it. So I think some sludge clogged passages started the thrust bearings on a path that was ultimately finalized by the heavy clutch causing them to wear themselves thin and for th gap to increase to where they were able to slide out. Google confirms that sludge + oil light often = thrust bearings in the pan. Heavy duty clutch was probably just the icing on top.
Well that didn't work did it? Hopefully I have used up my allotment of misfortune and it's time for something, anything, to go my way. I find a 92k engine on ebay. It's out of a '04 Jetta GLI. Seller sends pics and the VIN. This one has a robust service history. Owner appears to have gone to the dealership for EVERYTHING...like even wipers and tires. Understandably thisin aint $500. However, considerations of value for money have long since left the stable. So I pulled the trigger.
And....it arrives like this...
On its side/back strapped to two broken pallets. No doubt it fell over (or was completely dropped) then simply picked up as it lay and strapped to another pallet. I was livid. It was delivered to my buddy's shop where they specialize in german cars. His mechanics admit they've never seen an engine shipped this poorly but confirm they almost always take a beating in transit. They fire up their forklift, we get it upright, we take a good look and then get it better setup for the ride home. Seller ultimately blames the shipper but is a great sport about refunding the shipping and extending the warranty period.
I buy a run of the mill Sachs clutch kit, including flywheel, for $250. Hopefully the thrust washers will like it. I used the best components amongst the 3 engines to get this one ready to go and in.
It took some work to identify and solve an issue with the wastgate rod being a little tweaked from removal or transport. I then sent the ECU out for a new, tamer tune which also served a very intermittent surging issue.
We've been making miles since about February or March and I think it's safe at this point to proclaim, we're back. Need some wheels though.
preach (dudeist priest) said:docwyte said:so there's no reason to remove them.
Errr...
But I agree. My R has an aftermarket catted downpipe and runs fine.
All those Group A and WRC cars with pyrotechnic exhausts had catalytic converters per FIA rules.
Just sayin' 
(came to thread looking for mention of crubs or load cam knocks)
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