Project "Wine&Cheese" - Cayenne Diesel Overland

In reply to engiekev :

Ask to meet him in person.  Go in with the warranty printed out and that section high lighted.  Show him that and tell him that Porsche is willing to fix it and ask him how this can get resolved...

engiekev said:

Long overdue update.  The vehicle has been at a dealership since May, prefer not to disclose names here.   Basically it looks like I'll have to pay for an engine swap somehow, the dealership and Porsche are both throwing their hands up.

Here's where its at:

• Had vehicle towed to Porsche dealership (early May)
• Dealership Inspected vehicle, still had injector DTCs setting. Metal in oil RIP.  Dealer wrote a "replace engine" ticket under warranty. (Mid May) At this point I was NOT aware of this at all.
• Porsche sent field service engineer to further investigate, determined there is bore scoring, and some sort of foreign object damage that has damaged the cylinder head seats (Mid May)
• Service advisor calls and says it needs a new engine, Porsche is denying the warranty coverage (Late May)
• Service advisor is not returning calls or emails, I reach out to Porsche of America and start working with a customer care rep. (Early June)
• Porsche Rep also cannot reach service advisor.
• Porsche Rep finally reaches the dealership, turns out the original service advisor is no longer with the company, and a new service advisor is assigned now (Early June)
• New SA states they can replace with new engine for $25-30k, theyre looking into used engines (Early June)
• Porsche rep states "I was informed by Porsche X that this warranty extension is strictly related to components that have a direct correlation to things like fuel-to-air ratios / other EPA-effecting factors.... something like an entire engine assembly would not be covered."  Also, apparently the dealership has direct say in any warranty coverage, this contradicts what the dealer is telling me about the Field Service Engineer making the call by Porsche. "Porsche dealerships are independent businesses and conduct day-to-day business as they see fit. To that end, yes, the decision is ultimately up to a dealership’s individual assessment."
• Not a word on used engine options, at this point I ask to escalate Porsche customer care to next level (Late June)
• Finally hear back on used engine options, $13k for one used engine $17k for a nicer used engine, pass (Early July)
• New Porsche Customer Care advisor investigates further and also has trouble reaching the dealership and the new service advisor.  Eventually he does, and states that there is nothing Porsche can do, as its up to the individual dealership to make a decision on warranty coverage.  He states they can support some financial assistance but only if the dealership makes some sort of goodwill gesture as well (Mid July)
• I give up and buy a new Subaru Outback (Now)

Here is the exact emissions warranty statement:

IANAL, but it seems to me like the engine long block warranty may be separate from the emissions warranty and where they screwed up is by making it underneath the Emissions warranty subheading rather than its own. Which means it makes people think it is under the emissions warranty but the inclusion of the term "Additionally," makes it different than the emissions warranty which may have a longer time and mileage window than the engine long block warranty. They could quite plausibly say that it's merely a formatting isssue.

GCrites80s said:

engiekev said:

Long overdue update.  The vehicle has been at a dealership since May, prefer not to disclose names here.   Basically it looks like I'll have to pay for an engine swap somehow, the dealership and Porsche are both throwing their hands up.

Here's where its at:

• Had vehicle towed to Porsche dealership (early May)
• Dealership Inspected vehicle, still had injector DTCs setting. Metal in oil RIP.  Dealer wrote a "replace engine" ticket under warranty. (Mid May) At this point I was NOT aware of this at all.
• Porsche sent field service engineer to further investigate, determined there is bore scoring, and some sort of foreign object damage that has damaged the cylinder head seats (Mid May)
• Service advisor calls and says it needs a new engine, Porsche is denying the warranty coverage (Late May)
• Service advisor is not returning calls or emails, I reach out to Porsche of America and start working with a customer care rep. (Early June)
• Porsche Rep also cannot reach service advisor.
• Porsche Rep finally reaches the dealership, turns out the original service advisor is no longer with the company, and a new service advisor is assigned now (Early June)
• New SA states they can replace with new engine for $25-30k, theyre looking into used engines (Early June)
• Porsche rep states "I was informed by Porsche X that this warranty extension is strictly related to components that have a direct correlation to things like fuel-to-air ratios / other EPA-effecting factors.... something like an entire engine assembly would not be covered."  Also, apparently the dealership has direct say in any warranty coverage, this contradicts what the dealer is telling me about the Field Service Engineer making the call by Porsche. "Porsche dealerships are independent businesses and conduct day-to-day business as they see fit. To that end, yes, the decision is ultimately up to a dealership’s individual assessment."
• Not a word on used engine options, at this point I ask to escalate Porsche customer care to next level (Late June)
• Finally hear back on used engine options, $13k for one used engine $17k for a nicer used engine, pass (Early July)
• New Porsche Customer Care advisor investigates further and also has trouble reaching the dealership and the new service advisor.  Eventually he does, and states that there is nothing Porsche can do, as its up to the individual dealership to make a decision on warranty coverage.  He states they can support some financial assistance but only if the dealership makes some sort of goodwill gesture as well (Mid July)
• I give up and buy a new Subaru Outback (Now)

Here is the exact emissions warranty statement:

IANAL, but it seems to me like the engine long block warranty may be separate from the emissions warranty and where they screwed up is by making it underneath the Emissions warranty subheading rather than its own. Which means it makes people think it is under the emissions warranty but the inclusion of the term "Additionally," makes it different than the emissions warranty which may have a longer time and mileage window than the engine long block warranty. They could quite plausibly say that it's merely a formatting isssue.

I suppose that is possibly interpreted that way by some dealers. This is only stated in the extended emissions warranty document, no other document lists this.  Regardless, anything stated in that section should be covered in the extended emissions warranty time/mileage period.

It's just mind boggling to me how convuluted this whole process has been, it doesn't help that I'm 6hrs away from the dealer and can't visit regularly in person.

We got our outback wilderness in too, should be perfect for soft roading and forest roads. OEM ground clearance is more than the cayenne, and a *real* warranty will be nice to have. 

Time to derail the thread! 

This is what we landed on to replace the Cayenne, Outback Wilderness.  Yes, its a softroader, and we get that. It absolutely can't do the same things as a Jeep, Bronco, 4runner or similar. But, it will handle washboard gravel roads far better than any body on frame truck other than a Raptor, and that's nearly all we do. Michigan doesn't have gnarly enough trails to justify having a truck based offroader, it takes 3+ hours to get anywhere remote so having something that is comfortable on the ride there makes way more sense. It's just about as capable, if not more, than the 958 cayenne in stock form.

Over the base outback: comes w/ the 2.4 turbo standard, 9.5" ground clearance due to new struts/springs, shorter CVT final drive, appearance stuff, different X-Mode calibration (AWD and traction control), Geolandar A/T tires (pretty mild A/T but good enough). Not sure if I'll start a build thread as there won't be much to do, just primitive racing skid plates and hopefully I can find some of the OEM BlobEye BBS STi wheels in gold (yes they fit, 5x114.3!).  

I'll address it before the question is asked, no it did not come with an REI membership!

In reply to engiekev :

Nice Outback! Like the Cayenne also!

Update to the story: we sent the cayenne to an indy european shop in Chicago suburbs, engine was reassembled after a thorough inspection, and it runs fine.  

We towed the vehicle as-is from the Porsche dealer, they had removed the intake manifold, valve covers and a rod bearing cap to inspect.  After a very thorough look over, borescope into the cylinders and head area and checking the bearings, they deemed it OK to reassemble.  There was no visible damage in the cylinder or head, as Porsche stated there was.  If there was at one time some sort of foreign object that caused damage, they must have removed it and we could find no evidence of what really happened.  

After reassembly they checked compression, totally fine across the board on all cylinders.  I'm really puzzled as to what they found, but we will never find out as Porsche and the dealership was being very deceptive and unwilling to share any pictures or evidence.   I believe its possible they were withholding information due to this being a possible warranty claim, to be clear that is supposition.  This experience has really soured me on Porsche, and any dealership service dept in general, but I at least learned some hard lessons on how to deal with service managers and customer-care departments (I think I've spent well over 50+hrs on the phone dealing with this).

While it was in the shop, took the time to address some other maintenance items: engine mounts, rear brakes, injector seals, valve cover gaskets, oil change.  Since that we've had over 1500miles on the vehicle with no issues.

I'll be posting it for sale on here and locally. It is now past the extended emissions warranty, not that it was useful for much of anything other than NOX sensors.

Since we already bought into the Outback and in our situation it makes no sense to keep this as a 2nd car. I drive test cars for work every day, so keeping a $20k 2nd car makes no sense for us.  I wish we could keep it, but it will just sit and hardly be used, and that also means we'll use our other fun cars (Montero, Miata) less.  We also just have the worst luck with cars.  The Outback developed a "cicada noise" that was vehicle speed dependent, took it to the dealer and it turns out the entire CVT needed to be replaced at 800mi under warranty, we just can't win!!!  In all we really did enjoy the Porsche, but we just dont have the time to deal with repairs and a new vehicle makes so much more sense now.  This will make a really nice softroader or highway cruiser, or tow vehicle for someone.  

I would name the dealership ...

Slippery said:

I would name the dealership ...

Porsche Peoria

So I'm confused.  The cayenne had a major issue that made you bring it to the dealer.  They dig into it, say it's fubar and deny a warranty claim.  You tow it to an Indy shop who inspects it, puts it back together without doing anything to fix the "issue" and it runs fine now?  Ummm??

So was the issue that first brought it to the dealer resolved mysteriously?  I can understand the dealer misdiagnosing it and then causing all the issues with Porsche and warranty but how did the cayenne fix itself?

engiekev said:

Slippery said:

I would name the dealership ...

Porsche Peoria

Perfect. If I hit the Powerball this week they lost a customer. 

docwyte said:

So I'm confused.  The cayenne had a major issue that made you bring it to the dealer.  They dig into it, say it's fubar and deny a warranty claim.  You tow it to an Indy shop who inspects it, puts it back together without doing anything to fix the "issue" and it runs fine now?  Ummm??

So was the issue that first brought it to the dealer resolved mysteriously?  I can understand the dealer misdiagnosing it and then causing all the issues with Porsche and warranty but how did the cayenne fix itself?

A side note... I left my TDI Touareg idling for a long time on a hot day while waiting for someone to show up and unlock a gate. I'd guess about 45 minutes. It went into limp mode with a "flashing glow plug" indicator on the dash. The code was something related to turbo control.

It never came back after I cleared the code. Over 1,000 miles of towing and plenty of normal driving. Maybe heat soaked electronics? Maybe too long at idle?  Anyway it runs fine since then.

docwyte said:

So I'm confused.  The cayenne had a major issue that made you bring it to the dealer.  They dig into it, say it's fubar and deny a warranty claim.  You tow it to an Indy shop who inspects it, puts it back together without doing anything to fix the "issue" and it runs fine now?  Ummm??

So was the issue that first brought it to the dealer resolved mysteriously?  I can understand the dealer misdiagnosing it and then causing all the issues with Porsche and warranty but how did the cayenne fix itself?

That is all correct, I have no evidence from the dealership or Porsche of the engine damage they stated it had. I was never able to go in person to inspect (they never offered) and they never shared any photo evidence.  They stated the cylinder head was damaged beyond repair, bore scored, metal in oil, catastrophic failure that necessitated a new long block. That's all I have to go off, from over two dozen phone calls.

So it's possible they were conservative in their estimate, being Porsche, and the damage is superficial or negligent enough that there is still compression and the engine runs fine. Again, I have no idea, and only Porsche and that dealership know the whole story, of which they were reluctant to share. And yes, I did speak with the general manager, two (one got fired) service advisors, and several people at Porsche customer care.  I know I trust the shop I worked with and their assessment, what Porsche did and how they came to their assessment will be a mystery. They found no such damage.

If I had to guess, and this is all supposition, there was some foreign object that stuck the intake valve open leading to compression loss(makes sense with symptoms of misfire, injector balance codes, cyl pressure code). They removed it, said it needed new head and decided that wasn't good enough to replace for the Porsche standard, thus stated it needed a new long block. At one point, the service advisor did say they could simply ONLY replace the head and it would be fine, just not live up to that dealers standards. As for why they didn't just claim a new head under the extended warranty, no idea.

All of this should have been disclosed upfront, it took me literally MONTHS of phone calls to learn this limited information. Lesson learned, don't trust dealers to disclose the full story and check out the issue in person to vet their claims.

In reply to engiekev :

Wow.  That's just slimy.  It's one thing to go ahead and claim something like that under warranty and replace it for free for a customer.  It's another thing to not do the right thing for the customer when it's an out of pocket expense.  Damn. 

I'm glad it was basically nothing and you've got it running well again and can sell it.

docwyte said:

In reply to engiekev :

Wow.  That's just slimy.  It's one thing to go ahead and claim something like that under warranty and replace it for free for a customer.  It's another thing to not do the right thing for the customer when it's an out of pocket expense.  Damn. 

I'm glad it was basically nothing and you've got it running well again and can sell it.

If things had gone a bit quicker, we would probably be keeping it, but now we have the new Subaru and we're locked into that.  Since the emissions warranty is out, that's bad, but also opens up for a tune or delete. I bet these are really fun with a tune.

Sorry to see yours get sold. I'm having issues with my local dealership (Porsche of Arlington, VA) that I am all too happy to name-n-shame over. It's come down to poor customer service as I stare at the end of my Dieselgate warranty. 

I got a CEL and flashing glow plug light a few weeks ago, repeatedly, and limp mode. They have been awful at communicating with me re: what's wrong and what they are fixing. I finally went in person and they shaped up, apparently it was an EGR thing for the limp mode issues and they found another oil leak that was somehow not fixed by the engine-out re-seal this spring.

Porsche N.A. is involved now and I am theoretically getting the car back next week, fixed. I plan on ragging on it from the Arlington dealership to the Chantilly, VA dealership where I will have that shop check the work and inspect the whole car for any other warranty issues that need attention.

Really debating what to do with mine after the warranty ends in December. It's wildly good at doing everything I need of it, but I am also driving test/press cars most of the time and I know diesels hate to sit. It's paid for, I like it a lot, and I don't know what I'd replace it with that could also tow. Only thought is to get something fun and rent from Enterprise Commercial when I need to tow something. I dunno.

Ours has been great.  That said, when the warranty on it expires in either 25k miles or 2 years, I'm selling it.  It's my wife's DD and she's NOT a gearhead.  I need her in a newer car with warranty coverage, period.

Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) said:

Sorry to see yours get sold. I'm having issues with my local dealership (Porsche of Arlington, VA) that I am all too happy to name-n-shame over. It's come down to poor customer service as I stare at the end of my Dieselgate warranty. 

I got a CEL and flashing glow plug light a few weeks ago, repeatedly, and limp mode. They have been awful at communicating with me re: what's wrong and what they are fixing. I finally went in person and they shaped up, apparently it was an EGR thing for the limp mode issues and they found another oil leak that was somehow not fixed by the engine-out re-seal this spring.

Porsche N.A. is involved now and I am theoretically getting the car back next week, fixed. I plan on ragging on it from the Arlington dealership to the Chantilly, VA dealership where I will have that shop check the work and inspect the whole car for any other warranty issues that need attention.

Really debating what to do with mine after the warranty ends in December. It's wildly good at doing everything I need of it, but I am also driving test/press cars most of the time and I know diesels hate to sit. It's paid for, I like it a lot, and I don't know what I'd replace it with that could also tow. Only thought is to get something fun and rent from Enterprise Commercial when I need to tow something. I dunno.

I'm kind of in the same boat, we really only need 1 vehicle like this to "do it all" since I get test cars for work and my significant has a fleet truck.  The Cayenne really fits as a one car solution for light towing and has the fun to drive factor, what else would you cross shop with in this category - especially for a newer vehicle with a warranty? 

We ended on the outback because while not fun, its quite comfortable and towing came off our list as a requirement, but we still needed something new that could soft-road.

My wife's next car will probably be a Nardo Grey Audi SQ5.  I'd also look at the Audi A4/A6 allroad's.

Allroad was on our list, a bit more expensive than we were looking at so that's how we landed on the outback.  Looking again, there are some CPO Allroad out there for similar cost as the new outback (40-42k).  Audi+Wagon is a super enticing formula but I suppose we are bit scared of German makes for now.  Also it appears to get adaptive cruise control, you have to get the Prestige (highest) trim on the A4 Allroad whereas the Outback Wilderness gets that standard; I can't live without it after using it in test cars!

How about an RS6 avant? That seems like a totally reasonable choice!

docwyte said:

My wife's next car will probably be a Nardo Grey Audi SQ5.  I'd also look at the Audi A4/A6 allroad's.

Funny, I have been heavily browsing SQ5's all week to replace the Touareg...

engiekev said:

How about an RS6 avant? That seems like a totally reasonable choice!

The size of the wheels is almost comical but, somehow, it works:

I'd love an RS6 but they're $$$!  They're selling for $100k over sticker for a used one!

@engiekev so sorry to hear about your Cayenne Diesel woes!

We recently picked up a white Cayenne Diesel (above) on Air Suspension with similar light-overland objectives to yours, and your thread pops up whenever I start researching tires, etc. It looks like we had the same thoughts regarding 265/60 Wildpeak AT3W's or 255/55 Wildpeak Trail's (I wish they offered the latter in a 255/60 or 265/60). I was even considering pushing the envelope with 255/65 Wildpeak Trails, but I think I'd be pushing my luck). I actually signed up here specifically to follow along your progress before reading through the whole thread.

What was your take on the Wildpeak Trails? Was there much of a performance sacrifice relative to your previous Michelins? My wife's car came on Conti LX Sports and I can't say I'm a huge fan.

I hope the Subie treats you well and you're able to fetch a premium for the CD! (Though secretly I hope you decide to keep the CD and restart your "project wine & cheese")