In reply to ssswitch:
It's not a saving money thing, it's a "nobody does this anymore so there's no need to support it" thing. Even back when you could buy a new car with a draw through system I don't think all turbos were set up for it.
In reply to ssswitch:
It's not a saving money thing, it's a "nobody does this anymore so there's no need to support it" thing. Even back when you could buy a new car with a draw through system I don't think all turbos were set up for it.
This build is seriously cool. It's grassroots, it's unique, and it's unexpected. Given the opportunity, I would love to try this one day.
The clifford intake manifold has bosses for port injectors.
Only on GRM will someone find validation for switching to EFI for the sake of keeping a Chinese eBay turbo. LOL
In reply to ssswitch:
Like BrokenYugo said; the fault doesn't actually lie in the China turbo, it rests plainly on my shoulders. An actual new t3/t4 turbo from Garrett would have done the exact same thing mine is doing. It's not that the seals are bad, it's that the draw through setup requires a different type of seal. And since nobody in their right mind runs anything draw through anymore, turbo manufacturers (especially eBay) don't even give it a second thought.
I'm actually quite impressed with the quality of the turbo overall, I think if it would have been ran correctly it would have been utterly flawless.
In reply to Benswen:
Do it! I'll try to have it down there a couple more times this year.
In reply to spandak:
Thank you! I've been daydreaming for a few years about a turbo setup on something, apparently this was the vehicle to get my feet wet on.
In reply to Crackers:
Seems perfectly logical to me... We'll see what happens. I'm really hoping the new seal does the trick.
Well. Disaster struck this weekend.
Let me backpedal a bit- On Thursday my rebuild kit showed up, and on Friday the new carbon seal showed up for my turbo. I went to the garage after work and started looking at my pieces and matching them up to the write up I found for installing a carbon seal. You have to press out the old seal in order to install the new one, seems logical right? Well, either I am a complete butcher and pressed wrong, or my eBay special had no such seal to press out. I suspect the latter as, well it's an eBay turbo not intended for this kind of use.
Here is what I started with. In the center you can see a ridge where it looks like there may be a 'seal' that would be 'removable'. This is the front side of the compressor housing, it bolts to the center section.
And here's the other side of it after my delicate pressing.
Apparently soft Chinese aluminum is no match for my Craftsman sockets and a small block chevy starter bolt (yeah this thing wouldn't fit in my baby vice) to draw them together and press the old seal out.
Soooo. I'm moderately berkeleyed at the moment- I mean I could surely go on eBay and buy another $140 turbo and bolt everything back together and be right back where I started, but the oil consumption was really getting on my nerves. Option two is to special order a new turbo with the proper seals to the tune of $700-$800. Option three is to completely re-think the wheel and put some kind of v8 in the car so I can get rid of some of the antiquated & outdated stuff on the car. And option four involves you, the reader- This car could be had as it sits for a very challenge appropriate price were somebody interested.
So that's where I'm at. I have a wedding coming up in less than a month so most of my funds are going to be spoken for currently.
I'd love to hear anyones opinions on what to do next!
Take the middle dollar amount option. Go to the junk yard, grab an OEM turbo for ~$300, verify a carbon seal option is available first, and keep the leaning tower of boost.
1984-1987 Chrysler FWD Turbo cars ran a draw through Garret Turbo. People used to give them away on the various forums.
If your going to rebuild the turbo anyhow, why not find a used one off E-bay? Maybe can get one that is better set up and will use less oil without having to do anything to it. Can't hurt to spend a little time looking...
In reply to TED_fiestaHP:
That is certainly something I'm looking into- problem is it's kind of a needle in a haystack situation because the draw through thing is so outdated. I know early grand nationals/t-type regals were draw through, Stefan pointed out that the early turbo Dodges were also draw through, and I've seen something that says maybe the 300D mercedes were draw through as well.
It's possible that I could put the seal and rebuild kit I already have in any appropriately sized Garrett turbo, but I don't have enough knowledge of them to say for sure that I could or not.
The other issue at play here is a personal one- I am not very patient when it comes to outdated stuff- I'm getting better but I don't especially enjoy tracking down oddball/nla parts. This is why putting a 360 or other later model v8 in it appeals to me because it would negate some of the unsupported aspects of the car. Unfortunately it would also lose some character at that point.
Well if you're not going to do the turbo Slant 6, consider the Dodge truck V10. Personally, I keep the turbo setup.
If you want to convert to blow thru with a carb, I have a extra fuel pressure regulator. I replaced the regulator on the Biturbo, and I still have the old one. I bet it still works fine. The only tricky part is you have to pressurize the float bowl and have a rising rate pressure regulator. With all the pressures going up at the same time, the carb will work like it normally does. If anyone wants that regulator, it would be free.
In reply to TED_fiestaHP:
Thanks for the option, and I may be converting it to blow through yet. That certainly introduces a host of other potential issues, but it would allow me to run an intercooler (+5 scene points) as well as clean up some of my engine bay space/brake issues (I have no room for a dual master cylinder with the current setup).
My biggest bitch about blow through is that it involves spending a bunch more money on this old outdated E36 M3... $350 intake manifold, another $140 ebay turbo, probably $200 on an intercooler, plus some kind of boost-referenced electric fuel pump, etc. etc. etc. End up being $1,000 easy before the thing is running again. Which makes me cringe and think I should put a 273/318/340/360 in it and be horsepower ahead, THEN turbo that if I'm feeling frisky.
paging Dusterbd - give me some Mopar input here.
If you were originally looking for horsepower, you wouldn't have turbocharged a slant six. You were doing it to be different. Forget about what the Mopar next to you has under the hood and keep doing what makes you happy.
Of course if a V8 makes you happy...who's to argue. 
Why are turbocharging and fuel injection mutually exclusive?
The Mercedes 300D turbodiesel was neither draw through or blow though, being a diesel there is no throttle valve and no fuel anywhere in the intake, I don't think the turbo in one would be carbon sealed, intake vacuum on a diesel is negligible.
Putting a V8 in a small car the barely came with one from the factory tends to come with it's own challenges.
There are some cheap tricks to doing a blow through on a carbed car, you can for example turn most mechanical fuel pumps into a boost referenced unit with some epoxy and a hose barb. Intercoolers can be had cheap at the pick and pull yard, not that you absolutely need one anyways. 2/4 barrel /6 manifolds do not looks to be cheap/easy to come by though.
Stefan wrote: 1984-1987 Chrysler FWD Turbo cars ran a draw through Garret Turbo. People used to give them away on the various forums.
I can tell you from firsthand experience: You do not want to run a K-car turbo on a slant six. The one I had would hit peak boost below the torque converter stall speed, then run out of breath around 3000 RPM.
My approach was to use an EFI conversion, but a blow through turbo could also make sense (well, as much sense as a slant six turbo build ever does...). You don't need a boost referenced electric fuel pump here; it's quite possible to modify the stock fuel pump to deliver more pressure by tapping the vent hole for a boost reference.
Or - I happen to still have the (relatively) low pressure fuel pump off my previous dual-pump setup on my Dart, and would let it go for the cost of shipping if it will help another slant six turbo buildup. I've changed my fuel system over to use just one pump. This one will put out enough pressure for a carbed turbo, just won't give you EFI pressures.
MadScientistMatt wrote:Stefan wrote: 1984-1987 Chrysler FWD Turbo cars ran a draw through Garret Turbo. People used to give them away on the various forums.I can tell you from firsthand experience: You do not want to run just one K-car turbo on a slant six. The one I had would hit peak boost below the torque converter stall speed, then run out of breath around 3000 RPM.
Is this perhaps what you meant to say?
The pump isn't boost referenced, just the pressure regulator. The pump just has to be capable of delivering at least 20 PSI, max boost pressure plus a little more. The fuel pressure and the float bowl pressure has to go up along with the manifold pressure, then the carb will continue to work normally.
Don't think it would be that difficult...
tuna55 wrote: Is this perhaps what you meant to say?
Good catch. Two of them would be about perfect.
tuna55 wrote: Why are turbocharging and fuel injection mutually exclusive?
Quoting myself for clarity here. Why can't we put fuel injection, and then re-turbocharge the /6?
MadScientistMatt wrote:tuna55 wrote: Is this perhaps what you meant to say?Good catch. Two of them would be about perfect.
Yay!
In reply to tuna55:
because OP (that would be me) is cheap. I do like the idea of fuel injection though, and it actually doesn't seem all that cost prohibitive, but it is outside my comfort zone which usually means spending a bit more money than necessary.
and thanks for the input madscientistmatt- I have read about boost-referencing the top of the mechanical pump and that's been rolling around in my head too. I'll stay away from K-car turbos unless I want to go with twins.
I like the concept of running a cheap eBay turbo and was fairly impressed with the quality of mine. The other consideration I have for this is arbitrary and stupid- but I've been trying to keep the one time parts expenditures cheap... like under a couple hundred bucks. I don't really care if it costs money over time, but I would prefer not to spend $500-600 at one time. Doesn't necessarily make sense I know but it is what it is.
Time to go read up on Megasquirt again.
In reply to Gunchsta:
I think there is a GRM expert on MS, who also happens to be commenting on your thread. Recently, very recently, and isn't me.
That would be my recommendation. I'll bet you can do it crazy cheap like.
I love the low buck turbo 6 approach to this project but something to keep in mind when you're making plans is that you're boosting an old engine, in unknown condition, that was never designed for severe duty and sooner or later (probably sooner)it's going to come apart. If you're long term goal for this car is V8 power then buying (even cheap) parts to continue down the turbo 6 path may not make sense.
No that I've mentioned that, I have a thought to continue down the current path relatively cheaply. Do you have any friends with machine shop access? I'm wondering if one couldn't make an insert for the broken housing that would both fix the broken part and accommodate the correct seal.
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