In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
Well until yesterday I was that guy. I'm not sure why but string alignments have always scared me. I had gotten the idea somehow that they were hard and way more complicated than they actually are. Turns out it's a really simple concept and I'm glad I took the time to sort it out. Teaching myself how to work on cars based almost exclusively on forums and youtube inevitably leads to some wrong information. Thanks as always for the advice!
In reply to Bense :
Budget, simple as that. I don't have plans to tune the car and I can run the j32 without tuning software, Aka $600 Hondata not to mention the various other bits I'd need to make Hondata work on my car (TL-S ecu, adaptor harness, Dyno tune)
Why not just use 07-08 TL-S 6MT ECU?
I could do that, but the cumulative cost is still prohibitive, or was when I did my current swap.
im not after peak power. This is just a fun build I'm hoping I can take to the track with limited worries and learn driving skills. And maybe surprise a few people with the mom car persona.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
Did you sell the engine?
My headliner was starting to sag, and as budget restraint is delaying other mods, I made a leap and did something I've been thinking about for a while.
before: 
After: 
I pulled the whole headliner, and then I pulled the A and C pillar covers. 8 lbs gone, but the real prizes are underneath the headliner. The sunroof, sunroof frame and motor, and the side curtain airbags are now all accessible for removal.
Now, removing the sunroof is something I'm not sure about. For right now I think the plan is to remove the sunroof frame and motor, and leave the glass. A sunroof plug is a big project. The glass weighs 13 lbs which isn't tiny that high in the car, but it's not the end of the world. The frame and motor weighs at least as much as the glass itself and the side airbags are around 10 lbs a piece. I'll weigh it all when I pull it tomorrow but I should be able to remove a total of 35 or 40 lbs from the top of the car. The nice thing is if anything crazy happens and I need to sell the car, I can reinstall the sunroof apparatus and make it functional again.
Lol the headliner did the same thing in my TL and so it now looks exactly like your picture.
I would like to see how you keep the glass but not the frame.
Also- are you sure about the side airbags? I kept everything in, and the case could probably be made that they're not aimed downwards without the headliner, but I don't know how they're designed to shoot out exactly either.
In reply to russ_mill :
I'm sure that I'm going to remove the side curtain airbags, if that's what you're asking. I think they would still work as intended if I left them, but for me they are extraneous, especially if I'm wearing a helmet at the track. I'll keep them in storage; they are fairly simple to reinstall from what I can tell.
I think I'm going to have my welder buddy fab me a roll bar to attach to the B pillars. It should help stiffen the roof and I like the idea of roll protection.
Ahh, gotcha. Makes more sense because yours is more track car, and mine is more daily.
I've got to do some of the weight saving stuff you and mazdeuce have!
In reply to Number1Gaza :
What about building a lexan moonroof plug?
In reply to Bense:
Yes that's one material I could use for a plug.
My reasoning against a plug is 2 fold.
1: so far, I could technically return the car to mostly stock, at least as far as appearances go. A sunroof plug with rivets or bolts in the sheet metal is going down the full race car road where the car loses most of its value.
2: making a sunroof plug is a chore. It needs to be leakproof, and making the plug the correct shape so water doesn't collect on the roof is not that easy. Figuring out a way to mount it properly isn't easy either. And again, just replacing glass with Lexan isn't saving that much weight, and if I'm going down that road, the next logical step are lexan windows and rear glass, which are not in the plans. I'm just plucking the lowhanging weight removal fruit for now. I can always do one later.
The admission that you've ruined the car is a big step.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
Haha. I'm almost there. It's not technically ruined yet but in my haste to rip out the headliner I ripped it in several places so I'd have to go to a junkyard and get another one should I want to reinstall it. So yeah I guess I've ruined my car. Tears haven't been shed yet, although I may shed a few on the couch when my wife finds out. She doesn't know what I've done yet.
For me it's welding in a cage. When I do that, I'll know I crossed the line.
Well in that case... those seats are pretty heavy and can easily be switched out and kept for safekeeping 
Stock seats are goners for sure, but I'll have to figure out what I want to replace them with, how to mount them and what to do about seat belts because the seat belt buckle is attached to the stock seat. Maybe just take it off the seat and bolt it directly to the frame? A full race harness would intrude into the back seat which I want to keep mostly unmolested so my kids can still ride back there.
Number1Gaza said:In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
Haha. I'm almost there. It's not technically ruined yet but in my haste to rip out the headliner I ripped it in several places so I'd have to go to a junkyard and get another one should I want to reinstall it. So yeah I guess I've ruined my car. Tears haven't been shed yet, although I may shed a few on the couch when my wife finds out. She doesn't know what I've done yet.
There are over 70, 7th gen Accords at junkyards near me. So you still have not done anything that's irreversible!!
Number1Gaza said:In reply to Bense:
Yes that's one material I could use for a plug.
My reasoning against a plug is 2 fold.
1: so far, I could technically return the car to mostly stock, at least as far as appearances go. A sunroof plug with rivets or bolts in the sheet metal is going down the full race car road where the car loses most of its value.
2: making a sunroof plug is a chore. It needs to be leakproof, and making the plug the correct shape so water doesn't collect on the roof is not that easy. Figuring out a way to mount it properly isn't easy either. And again, just replacing glass with Lexan isn't saving that much weight, and if I'm going down that road, the next logical step are lexan windows and rear glass, which are not in the plans. I'm just plucking the lowhanging weight removal fruit for now. I can always do one later.
Excellent point. I have never looked at how the moonroof is setup, so I'm pretty ignorant. I had been under the impression that the class component was very heavy. I was thinking that you could make a plug to go in its place that saved several lbs. My headliner is also in need of servicing and I'd like to do something about it. Almost every Honda that I've had has had a moonroof. Coincidentally, this is the only one that I've preferred to keep even the visor closed.
iirc, the 'TL Diet' member on Acurazine used the rubber from around the glass to seal the sunroof plug they made from carbon. As long as the edges end up about the same thickness as the glass, you could maybe pull the same trick?
sleepyhead the buffalo said:iirc, the 'TL Diet' member on Acurazine used the rubber from around the glass to seal the sunroof plug they made from carbon. As long as the edges end up about the same thickness as the glass, you could maybe pull the same trick?
It took me a while to go through his table of contents and manually find the particular posts within his thread to the specific subject. Here's a URL that should jump directly to his CF moonroof endeavors;
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/m-010-putting-tl-diet-update-links-post-1-a-610974/page10/#post9968055
I pulled the sunroof frame and the airbags today. Sunroof frame with the motor and water drainage tubes weighed 20 lbs, airbags weighed less than i thought, 11 lbs total. Including the headliner and A and C pillar cover removals, that's 39 lbs removed so far, all from the very top of the car.
With the frame removed I discovered a fun fact. There is no easy way to mount the sunroof glass. Brackets have nowhere to bolt to. With that knowledge I decided that a plug may actually be the way to go. I thought first about a sheet metal plug, since I have a whole scrap car. I took out a sawzall and grinder and cut this hole in the roof of my donor car, using the sunroof glass as a template:
very bad cutting, but I figured I could clean it up later.
What I discovered was that the roof metal on the TL isn't much lighter than glass. The section I cut out was nearly identical in weight to the glass actually. So I decided I'm doing lexan with aluminum angle as braces and mounting points, and the sheet metal idea can go in the trash. Using aluminum angle and mounting to that should allow me to avoid cutting any holes in the roof. Once this is done, I will have saved around 45 lbs from just the roof. That's definitely worth it. My wife will have to get used to bare sheet metal.
Also, thanks Sleepyhead and Bense, I have of course read the Acurazine ultimate diet thread but it's been a while and I forgot innacurate has a section on moonroof replacement. What he did is probably the best way to go about making the perfect lightweight plug, but also the most labor intensive and expensive. Lexan seems easier. I suppose I'll find out.
Also you are all very bad influences. This was just supposed to be a quick afternoon weight loss session and now I'm 2 afternoons in and all I've accomplished is making a permanent hole in my roof. One of the drivers at work came up to watch me work and spent the next 10 minutes moaning about how I'm ruining a perfectly good car and how his Honda enthusiast brother would have a stroke if he could see it. Interspersed with comments like, "Could it beat a Genesis? How about a Charger RT?" If by beat you mean better lap times, then probably...
Are you able to keep the glass in place without the moonroof frame/motor? Any way to just keep it locked shut?
I managed to pick up an Accord Hybrid hood. When you find yours, make sure that you get the hood hinges because they're different. I can pick up some hybrid rear knuckles and a front bumper beam for you if you'd like. However you will need to use a 2006-2007 Accord Hybrid VSA because the wheel bearing abs sensor is slightly different. If you don't do this, the vehicle will drive in a limp mode that will not let you accelerate until the ABS system finally gives up trying to calibrate. Its the worst limp mode ever.
The TLS / 04-08 TL 6MT spare wheel is actually heavier than the stock spare wheel. I'm not sure if I'm going to carry it or not.
If you still have your J35A8, I may have soon have a tuning setup using HTS (https://hondatuningsuite.com/) that would work on a 2007 base TL ECU. You would need the 07-08 TLS Clutch housing (same as 2008-2017 Accord Coupe 6MT) (its about $420), and a $30 oil pipe. -- And you'd need a different starter and a different flywheel... lol. Yeah, I guess it really is a pain in the ass.
Can I get a pic of the roof with no moonroof frame/motor please?
In reply to russ_mill :
Sure.
Pretty bare. I actually really like the sunroof frame delete, it increases headroom a couple of inches. I'm 6'0 and a helmet would have been a tight squeeze before the sunroof frame delete with the stock seat.
In reply to Bense :
Thanks for the Accord hybrid stuff offer. I actually have the bumper beam already, and the knuckles I'm probably going to pass on for now. The narrower shock mount would mean that I'd have to get new rear coilovers, which I actually plan to do soon but not quite yet.
There is no easy way to get the glass to mount in the sunroof hole. The glass is actually smaller than the hole, and even with the rubber seal it's not a real tight fit. The glass needs the full sunroof mount to sit right.
I sold the old J35A8. Interesting you may have another tuning solution though. How is the tune you are working on better than Hondata?
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