The v6 6 speed sedan Traccord

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

You are correct that the magnesium MDX (or any 3.7 j series manifold) is the usual way to get a bigger and better flowing intake manifold.  Actually any later model J series comes with a magnesium alloy manifold that is designed as 2 halves that bolt together.  They look like this:There are 4 reasons I didn’t go that route. The first one is that my stock throttle body won’t bolt up; need the 3.7 throttle body or an adaptor.  The second is that this is a super budget challenge-esque build.  3.7 manifold and throttle body costs money - at least $200 from a junkyard.  The 3rd is that the 3.7 manifold and throttle body doesn’t work well with an Accord or TL ECU - it causes bucking and idle issues from all accounts unless It’s coupled with Hondata, which I’m not going to mess with yet.  And the 4th reason is that I actually went to a junkyard and checked out a magnesium manifold, and one of the big reasons it’s lighter is that there’s simply a lot less material than the stock cast aluminum one on my car.  There’s not much porting room at all.  I figured that I could actually get better gains by porting my stock manifold.  

In reply to Number1Gaza :

thanks for laying out your logic, sounds good to me.  I look forward to seeing how this works out for you / J32's.

JB WELD for the win!! This is awesome.  

In reply to grover :

Appreciate that!  This is why, despite frequenting 5 different forums regularly including 3 I have build threads on, I’ve pretty much stopped posting or reading anywhere but here on GRM.  The combination of awesomeness and diy ingenuity/cost savings is unmatched. Along with appreciation for ridiculousness like cutting intake plenums off with a sawzall and JB Welding them back together.  Seriously, i very much appreciate the ‘this is awesome’ response instead of ‘wow you are a berkeleying idiot’ that I’d get on most other forums.

Saturday was engine swap day.  I rented an engine hoist for the weekend, and me and a buddy spent about 6 hrs working on the car.

I didn't take many pictures since we were in a pretty major time crunch.  And as with most projects, it wasn't all smooth sailing.  
 

all was wonderful until we went to remove the axles.  The TL trans came with axles but one look at them and I knew they would need replacing.  The initial plan was to re-use my accord axles.  However, the passenger side axle was seized inside the half shaft on both the TL and Accord transmission, and the drivers side axle was seized in the accord trans that was in the car.  
 

after pounding with sledge hammers and pry bars with no success, I ended up  removing the bracket that holds the half shaft to the block and removing the whole passenger side assembly, half shaft and axle, from both transmissions directly.  Thankfully they weren't actually frozen in the transmissions.  
 

the drivers side axle on the Accord trans was seized inside the tranny and that was a puzzler.  After some thought, I ended up just pulling it straight out the top still attached to the transmission.  
 

New engine getting new oil pan and oil pickup housing gaskets

It looks so empty!  
At this point we ran out of time.  
 

I came back this afternoon, needing to swap all timing components from old to new engine and get the TL engine inside the car and mounted.  

success!

So now I can get the hoist back without incurring extra charges.  Still a ways to go before I know if this thing even works, but I'm pretty happy with the progress.  I just about have a j32 swapped Accord!
 

Couple things I learned from the swap: 

Stock 6-6 sedan hood appears to be aluminum.  We pulled it off the car and I was quite surprised by how light it was.  I believe Seth said the hybrid hood he got from the junkyard for his Accord was 18 lbs, and that's about what I estimated my hood to be. 
 

The stock trans mounts are absolute crap. The top mount is ok but the design appears to be prone to tearing.  I think I'm going to fill mine with poly when I get a chance.  The lower mounts have an absolute ton of play.  They're barely doing anything down there.  Complete garbage.    I need to figure out a way to stiffen them.  The Acura TL-s 6mt front lower mount from '07 - 08 is a much better design and bolts right up but it's not cheap, like $70 for one mount.  

I confirmed that the J32a3 is 100% identical to the j30a5.  Literally everything is the same except that the cylinder bore is 89mm not 86, so you can't swap the pistons or head gaskets but that's about the only thing in the whole darn engine that isn't the exact same.  
 

The other thing I noted was something I already knew, but after doing a full engine swap I can confirm:  the design of the Honda J series is on point.  It's gotta be the easiest v6 to work on ever made.  Everything is pretty easy to get to, very logically designed, really nothing at all aside from the precats makes me scratch my head and say 'what the hell was honda thinking?' (And I know what they were thinking with the precats, they had to have them for emissions).  The engine has gotten some love over the last few years, particularly now that there are so many of them hitting junkyards at stupid cheap prices, but I for one have nothing but good things to say.

The stock trans mounts are absolute crap. The top mount is ok but the design appears to be prone to tearing.  I think I'm going to fill mine with poly when I get a chance.  The lower mounts have an absolute ton of play.  They're barely doing anything down there.  Complete garbage. 

It says something to me personally that, having seen the guts of about a bajillion cars, i look at the mess of drivetrain mounts on one of those Accords and im not really sure what some of them are for.  

In reply to Vigo :

I mean, I get why they make them sloppy.  It's so the mounts don't transmit vibrations to the cabin.  As I've said before, the Accord is a family sedan first, and it's quite obvious based on the way the car is set up from the factory.  Just means that there are a decent amount of things that need to be customized or swapped over from a more sports oriented model like the TL in order for the Accord to be a decent drivers car.

Work has been extremely busy lately, so between living out of hotels and 4 kids, it's taken forever to make progress on this project.

 But today, I finally hooked everything up and got ready to turn the key.  So many things could go wrong.  I turned the key, the starter turned over a couple of times, and as soon as it got fuel the engine fired up.  Incredible. 
 

There's a pretty nice misfire, and after ruling out coil packs I had to leave work.  Diagnostic day tomorrow.  Still pretty psyched.  

I absolutely love this thread 

quick question. Having never driven this setup , would this be more of a hammer, compare to a GSR sedan which is more scalpel? Looking for your thoughts if you have driven both 

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

I've driven a GSR coupe.  They are wildly different cars.  The Accord is slightly quicker in a straight line but the GSR's high revving 4 is absolutely addicting, and the handling is quite a lot better, particularly stock since it weighs about 1000 lbs less.    

Driven less than balls to the walls though and the Accord is a much better car.  It's also way more stable at high speed.  Basically:  Accord is a better commuter, GSR is a better weekend autoxer. 
 

 Thank you for the kind reply. I picked up a GSR sedan thus was curious how it compared 

thank you 

Here's the TL engine all hooked up.  Also, in the process of installing the new engine, I got rid of the intake flex pipe and replaced it with a metal pipe that fit perfectly around the stock air box.  

The inside of the stock intake flex pipe looks like it narrows down to around 2.5" before connecting to the throttle body.  I need to measure it, but I should pick up a bit of power replacing it.  
 

Still working on a connection for the hose that goes from the rear valve cover to the intake.  JB weld has failed me miserably on that one.  

One of the things I love the most about the J engine is that all it takes is an intake to make them sound awesome when the VTAK hits. It seriously doesn't sound like it belongs in a 'boring' car. Not that I think Accords are boring. I want to j36/37 an Accord Hybrid and put a TPS fooler in it so i get electric assist quicker. Thinking 300+ lb ft at mild throttle openings, 300+hp on top, 30mpg and serious sleeper status. 

Diagnostic day was fun.  I figured out that both cylinder 2 and 3 were mis-firing.  I verified that both coils were good, pulled the spark plugs and swapped those, and still both cylinders were misfiring.  So, I swapped over the fuel rail and injectors from my old J30.  Fired her up, and bingo, no more misfires.  

I'm still wiping some perverbial lingering sweat that it wasn't a valve issue, since aside from the injectors I couldn't think of any other reason why 2 specific cylinders would be misfiring.  

I can't drive it yet.  Axles are all sorts of messed up.  Thinking some junkyard axles are in my future.  But dang I can't wait to drive this thing.  

In reply to Vigo :

Yeah j series sound nice with an intake.  One of these days I'll get around to fabbing a 4" intake, but it's pretty low on the priority list.  I still get a nice sound with the intake resonator delete, and there's a minimum 3.25" flow path with the new pipe I put in right up to the 3" throttle body.  

Loving the build so far. I actually have pretty much this exact car. Mines an '06 Silver 6-6 Sedan. I bought it about 3 years ago with 119,000 miles and it now has about 166,000. It's a fantastic car and I thoroughly enjoy driving it. I'm just now starting to play with it a bit and will be following along to see what you do with yours. 

One thing I did to mine that made a big difference was putting in the AC Delco (GM) Syncromesh trans fluid. It was actually a Honda recommendation and it made a huge difference in shift feel. I was surprised how much better it makes the trans feel. I highly recommend it if you weren't aware of it. 

I actually like 7th gen Accords so much that I have a second as a winter beater. It's also an '06, Black, 4 cyl 5 speed sedan. I bought it for $1800 with 216,000 and it now has 290,000. It's also a fantastic car and regularly gets 36+ mpg. 

On another note, if you're interested in selling your original 6 speed I might be interested in buying it from you to keep around as a spare. 

In reply to yamaha225 :

Cool to see another 7th gen 6-6 owner here!  As my first real build, I am most definitely enjoying myself so I'm glad others are getting some enjoyment out of it too.  
 

GM friction modified synchromesh tranny fluid was one of my first mods actually.  Stuff is like magic for Honda 6 speeds and I can't recommend it enough.  Have you done the slave cylinder check valve delete?  That's another great mod for shift feel and crispness.  
 

I will be selling my original 6 speed shortly, just need to drive the car first to confirm that the TL tranny shifts ok.  It moves through the gears fine so that's a good sign.  I'll post it here when I go to sell.  
 

The GM Synchromesh do you guys recomend it for Integra 5 speed, or just the Accord V6 manual trannies?

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Nope just the 6 speed transmissions from the 7th gen Accord and 3rd gen TL, as well as all other Honda 6 speeds of around the same generation - all s2000's, RSX-s, 8th gen civic SI, and 1st gen TSX.

For the first 8-10 years after Honda came out with the 6 speed transmission, basically all of them suffered from varying degrees of problems with the synchronizers, particularly in 3rd gear.  The car will pop out of gear randomly and grind when shifting.

 For whatever reason, GM friction modified synchromesh is like magic fix-it potion for all these transmissions.  Why something as simple as changing the brand of fluid would make all synchro problems magically disappear or at least be greatly mitigated is beyond me, but that's pretty much what happened in my case and for most others who switch.  

Thank you! My S2000 has been running OEM fluid, I will switch it out to GM Synchro, thanks!  I know for my Miatas, Redline used to be king at a certain point (many eons ago)

In reply to Number1Gaza :

I haven’t done the check valve delete but I may when I tear into my clutch. The self adjusting pressure plate in mine has been giving me grief for a while so I’m going just do the clutch. If anyone has any recommendations regarding clutch’s for these I’m all ears. The car sees mostly street use but I’d like to start autocrossing it. I don’t have plans for big power but will likely do some N/A mods to get a bit more out of it. 

In reply to Number1Gaza :

After the good experience I had putting the GM fluid in the 6 speed I also put it in my 7th gen 5 speed. It also made a world of difference there. That trans is pretty tired since it has 290,000 on it and it still made the synchros feel really good.

In reply to yamaha225 :

Interesting.  Haven't heard of anyone using the GM synchromesh on anything except the Honda 6 speeds.  
 

the check valve delete can be done without messing with anything else.  The slave is separate from the transmission and clutch and is relatively easily accessible to the right of the front motor mount below the starter.  The biggest annoyances are getting the locking ring off of the slave cylinder end cap (easiest with a new slave cylinder) and then bleeding the clutch when finished.  There's a good thread about it on Acurazine.  
 

from what I hear the OEM clutch is the best replacement unless you're going boost.  There's other kits out there but they are expensive and there's been quite a number of reports of premature failure and various other issues with aftermarket kits.  The biggest pain is how hard the transmission is to access when changing the clutch.  Most guys just pull the engine and trans as a unit. 
 

I've used GM Synchromesh in a bunch of different Honda transmissions.