Take a LOT of pictures as you go about all of this. You're doing many of the things I thought about but never got to. Also, we need to figure out if the aluminum hood I have will fit your car.
Take a LOT of pictures as you go about all of this. You're doing many of the things I thought about but never got to. Also, we need to figure out if the aluminum hood I have will fit your car.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
You still have that aluminum hood? It came from a sedan then... so it should fit my car. Almost certainly would fit. That would be pretty great.
One other thing I did was keep the TL-S rear bumper. It has a crack in it but I've had a bunch of people still want to buy it.. but no. I am keeping it. I think if I cut up the mid section it would be a perfect flat panel for a front bumper extension leading into a splitter. Also, it has a rear grille. Just for aesthetics as mounted on the TL so it doesn't actually have holes in it, but it is removable, and holes are very easily cut out. So I could have a somewhat aesthetically pleasing rear bumper cutout to minimize drag.
Pics coming. I need to be better about taking pics if I'm actually serious about documenting this build. A goal is sort of formulating in my mind. I'm going to start with some open track nights down at the track nearby in Camden, SC. I'm pretty sure that track is a one lap stop. I need to get some track time in and see what kind of driver I really am next to guys who actually do Motorsports. In the past I've tested my cars on the road and be damned with highway safety. But I'm too old and have too much responsibility and too many kids and a work truck that will go away if I keep up those kind of shenanigans.
Hopefully the car will be ready for track time right about when the tracks open back up as all this recent craziness subsides.
I dug into the TL Type S subframe today.
TDLR version, since I tend to get long winded on here.
The subframe WILL bolt up. 100% no issues. I measured the mounting points and there are no differences. The front lower transmission mount lays right in, bolt holes already exist and are aligned. The rear lower tranny mount also lays right in with existing bolt holes, but the rear bolt hole is way too big. Fairly easy problem to solve though.
I was just about to drop my Accord subframe and get the swap on, when I looked closer at the mid mounts of the TL subframe. Quite a while before the recent rear ending, the TL was smacked on the front drivers side. Here's the good side:
Bad side:
yep, one side is quite bent. I spent an inordinate amount of time with a 3 pound sledge and some punches trying to realign the mid mount point. No dice.
Still, this does confirm that any 3rd gen TL aluminum subframe will bolt up to the Accord.
Figured I'd find out how much it weighs at least..
That scale is older than I am, but it still works. 51 lbs. Also one more bit of evidence that the TL subframe is a repaired formerly wrecked piece of art, how about those mount points at the bottom of the picture. Clearly that bottom left side has been cut off and a different piece welded on.
More progress, and some interesting times over the last couple days:
Flywheel with new friction surface and the clutch are installed. I had to reset the preset on the used self adjusting pressure plate, after I replaced the new flywheel friction disc. Otherwise the pressure plate would likely drag. There's a tool sold by Honda that is supposed to allow pressure plates to be preset. It costs around $1000. I followed a YouTube hack and managed to get it done with a disc from a ball joint press, a long bolt and a couple of nuts and washers. It worked, altho I kind of mangled the pressure plate springs in the process. But they aren't broken and they are still springy so... hopefully it'll be ok? I have about a 20% confidence level that the motor isn't going to come right back out after I reinstall it. I've done too many major surgery things for the first time.
Today I swapped in the Acura TL-S rack and pinion. It is similar to the Accord but definitely not the same.
One of the hydraulic lines doesn't line up. Here is the Acura rack, when i discovered this little nugget. 
here is the Accord rack:
and here are the lines. Upper one is Accord and lower is Acura.
The Acura line is a larger diameter and the line bends at a different angle where it connects to the rack. Luckily I have the Acura line, so I just swapped it right in and it works with no issues.
I also swapped the driver side boot from my Accord rack over to the TL rack and discovered that the TL rack is a smaller diameter Everywhere.. Not by much, but enough where even with clamps installed the Accord boot is loose. Instead of ordering the correct size boot, I just used a metal screw clamp on the big side and zip tied the small size, so it's at least semi-tight. The boot is only there to prevent dust and debris from entering the rack so I think it should be good enough.
Outside of those differences, the TL rack does bolt right in.
I removed the Accord knuckles with calipers attached and did some weighing and comparing. I wanted to see what the unsprung weight increase would be as I'm swapping to 0.3" larger rotors and 4 piston calipers. Some very interesting info here:
TL Caliper
1994 Acura Legend GS caliper (what I was previously running)
I save 4 pounds per caliper. The TL brembos are aluminum. Cool. But of course with the bigger rotors the weight savings should be canceled, right?
TL knuckle with caliper: 49.5 lbs. I forgot to take a picture of the stock Accord knuckle, but it weighed 53.5 lbs.
so the Caliper weight savings does carry over. Except that the TL rotors are bigger and should weigh more. Knuckles should be the same. This doesn't make sense.
I spent a good minute scratching my head, trying to figure out what was going on, when on a whim I picked up both knuckles by the top of the arm where they bolt to the upper control arm. The Accord knuckle arm felt thicker. I grabbed my caliper and:
hard to see, clearly photography is not one of my gifts. But the Accord knuckle arm is indeed thicker, by several mm. Elsewhere on the knuckles I noted subtle changes in the size of the metal casting between the Accord and TL, even though the overall designs are basically identical. So there is my weight savings. Eventually I'll pull the rotors and see exactly how much swapping to the TL knuckles is saving in weight, but for now I'm content knowing that in addition to way more powerful brakes I saved 8 lbs of unsprung weight from the front of the car. Not bad.
I also swapped in the TL-S brake master cylinder. It looks and measures 100% identical to my Accord one. Maybe there are differences internally? Hard to know.
anyway, things are coming together pretty well. Motor is ready to drop in next week. I'm presweating thinking about turning the key after this much major surgery.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
There should be no differences in the master cylinders.
Go read through my hazmat thread. I talked about it there when i found out what the part number was.. I'll see if i can find it.
Edit: Found it in hazmat thread here
46100-SDB-A11
That was a MC on some of the 05-07 accords as well as the TL with Brembo for sure...but i believe all the TL from 04-08 used it.
That knuckle information is fascinating. Also the part about the PS bits, thanks for that.
Awesome post, thanks for the detail!
It strikes me that a TL swap Accord might slot interestingly into SCCA's arcane TT rules... which allow subframe swaps under certain classes/conditions.
Also, yes CMP has been on the OneLap route a couple times... but the route changes every year. Still, though, a good place to get some seat time. It has one good rhythm section, a nice carousel, and at least a couple places to stress-test your brakes.
In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
Thanks Pete, good info there. I had forgotten that note in your 37 page thread.
Weight loss thoughts:
Between the hollow camshafts (maybe a pound), lightweight flywheel, rims and tires, TL knuckles and calipers, stripping my trunk and yanking the front foot well sound insulation, I've saved 77lbs vs where my car was before I pulled the motor. Add a couple lbs back for the beefier clutch and larger rear sway bar and end links and I'm probably around 73 total lbs lost.
Weight before: 3,240 lbs (no driver, 1/4 tank of gas)
After: should be around 3,170 lbs
I am some front racing seats, a rear seat delete and a lightweight battery away from 3000 lbs. And that's still with a sunroof, stock exhaust, otherwise full interior and all the creature comforts.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
I am quite interested to see where the Accord ends up getting placed in SCCA rules. I haven't swapped subframes yet and probably won't for a while. I'll buy the next junkyard one I find and save it for the next time the engine is out. With the engine lift and all my tools and all the bolts in relatively good shape, pulling the engine is only a 2 hr job, so I'd expect the motor to be out again at some point. If the used TL rack and pinion ends up being bad, for instance, id probably just pull the motor again. I absolutely detest working on big jobs like swapping the rack and pinion with the motor still in the car where once finished, adding "contortionist" to your resume seems reasonable.
My goal is that wherever the car ends up getting placed, it should still be competitive. 300hp, 3000 lbs, an LSD, good brakes and eventually a good suspension, and I feel like the bones will be there to match up with any front wheel drive car. Tighter autocross courses will probably be challenging vs the fiesta ST's and CRX's of the world, but we will see.
Glad to hear CMP is decent as it's really the only local option.
Complete with bird crap everywhere, this might be the sleepiest sleeper around.
Engine is in. I hooked up the slave cylinder and the shifter cables and tested out the clutch and tranny. I was able to move between gears. Felt decent. So I would say I'm in the clear with the clutch!
The real test will be tomorrow when I turn the key and try driving it.
The Acura TL-S automatic transmission intermediate shaft will not work with my Accord. The manual and automatic transmission intermediate shafts are different lengths. 
the shorter one is from the Acura TL-S. I ordered a new passenger side axle so I'm going to pick that up tomorrow. My Accord intermediate shaft seems fine so I'll reuse it.
I hit some snags today. Haven't gotten a chance to test out the engine yet.
The first snag was an upper alternator bolt that snapped off inside the head. Can't go without that bolt because it supports the alternator accessory belt pulley; without it the alternator will flop around and the belt will probably break or come loose. Luckily i was able to drill it out enough to remove it with a screw extractor. Dodged a bullet there, but it cost me a good deal of time.
The next snag was the passenger side Axle and intermediate shaft.
A while back, I mentioned that TL axles are beefier than Accord axles. But I had just read that on a forum somewhere. Today I gathered some data.
Transmission side of both intermediate shafts are an identical 30mm.
Axle side of the intermediate shaft: 28mm Accord, 30mm TL. I neglected to take pics of the actual shafts, but the Accord intermediate shaft diameter for the actual shaft portion is 30mm, TL is 32mm.
So the TL intermediate shafts, and I suspect the axles, are a couple of mm bigger than equivalent Accord 6 speed parts, even though because the transmission attachment and hub attachment is identical they will interchange between vehicles. I measured the TL and Accord hubs and they are the same diameter.
But, you can't use TL axles and an Accord half shaft. I tried that. Found out the hard way. So now I'm a couple of trips to the auto parts store deep. I have an Accord Axle on order that should be in tomorrow because the bearing on my manual trans TL intermediate shaft is bad.
I finally turned the key today. The car started! Didn't run terribly either. I only let it run for a few seconds.
There's a pretty solid vacuum leak for sure, and there's something wrong with either the clutch or the hydraulics. Hoping it's just air in the line, but the tranny doesn't want to move between gears very easily. So tomorrow will be diagnostic day.
Still, after all the stuff I've done, none of which I've done before, turning the key and not immediately saying "oh god, what have I done" is progress in my book.
Today wasn't the best day I've ever had with my car.
First problem: new rims won't clear the brembos. They are +40 offset, maybe +45 would clear? They aren't hitting the caliper by much. Anyway, the TL-S owner was running 1" spacers, so I temporarily swapped those over just to get it rolling. Looks really bad. I absolutely hate the wheels-sticking-way-out look.
With some lowering and smaller spacers it'll look fine. Still annoying.
I finally got everything hooked up. I bled the clutch one more time and the transmission shifted smoothly. I backed the car up and everything seemed fine, when I heard a popping sound. And the clutch quit working. I can put the transmission in gear just fine, the clutch hydraulics are all doing what they are supposed to, but with the transmission in gear, if I release the clutch nothing happens. Did my pressure plate go boom? Is there something wrong with the throw out bearing? I have no idea. But something covered up by the transmission housing is not working. The easiest way to look inside the transmission housing and figure out what is wrong... is to pull the engine and transmission again.
I expected something like this. Particularly with my shenanigans resetting the used pressure plate. It's still really frustrating. Trying to keep things in perspective, I've had a lot of "holy E36 M3 I can't believe that worked" moments with this build, so I'm due for something that didn't work quite right. The engine runs pretty well, so things could be worse. Things could be worse.
Turns out things could be a lot worse. Actually they couldn't be much better. After some forum research, the first thing I did when I got to work this morning was stick my head under the car and check to make sure I had installed the axles correctly. And I found my problem. The driver side axle had popped right out of the transmission. It wasn't seated correctly when I installed it.
I fixed the issue, started the car back up and I just got back from taking a ride around town. The car drove great! Unbelievable.
Number1Gaza said:Turns out things could be a lot worse. Actually they couldn't be much better. After some forum research, the first thing I did when I got to work this morning was stick my head under the car and check to make sure I had installed the axles correctly. And I found my problem. The driver side axle had popped right out of the transmission. It wasn't seated correctly when I installed it.
I fixed the issue, started the car back up and I just got back from taking a ride around town. The car drove great! Unbelievable.
I was about to respond to your "pop" post and say double check your axles are installed all the way because the exact same thing happened to me when I did the clutch job on my dad's '07.
In reply to orthoxstice :
Yeah I've never done a clutch job before and since the clutch wasn't new, my first thought was that something was wrong with it. Never crossed my mind that it could be the axle.
Now describe in detail how all the new things feel. Take your time, it's important.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
I will, don't worry. First I need to figure out how things actually feel. The front tires were so out of alignment they looked like duck feet. I probably should have counted turns when I swapped the tie rod boot. I fixed it somewhat but not having done a self alignment before I think I'm going to take it to a shop Monday and get it lasered up.
Also, those ridiculous 1" spacers are throwing me way off. They totally change the feel of the car. So those need to go bye bye.
Quick teaser: the new quicker steering rack is a game changer. I have way more power in the upper rev ranges, way better throttle response, and with the more or less solid mounts everything is way more planted.
I gotta take it easy on the clutch for a little bit. wouldn't want to bugger up my new flywheel friction surface.
After checking out the Megan coilovers that came with the TL-S, I figured out that they actually will bolt right up to my Accord. No problem with the rears, and the fronts the only difference is the strut tower bar studs are in a different location.
The problem is that there are only 3 corners worth of coilovers. The rear driver was destroyed in the wreck. Enter fb marketplace. I found both rears for $100, fairly local. supposed to pick them up tomorrow.
Megan coilovers are basically a budget monotube design. Lots of adjustability, actual quality and longevity is questionable but since I have 3 corners already, $100 for the 4th corner plus a spare is a better option than shelling out 500 for Koni yellows. I can always go a different direction later.
did you already sell the TL-S wheels?
based upon the fact that the rest of the TL brakes swapped right over. the TLS wheels should fit over those brakes without issue.
In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
Haven't sold them yet, altho some guy has tentatively committed to grabbing them.
Yes they would clear the brakes, but they cumulatively weight 52 lbs more than the Traklites. And if I were to swap in the TL rims, I'd have to buy a 4th rim. Driver rear wheel was bent badly and likely isn't repairable.
I'm not worried about running a small spacer. Hoping 5mm will do the trick; I'm going to measure tomorrow.
I ended up driving 2 hrs down to the west end of the state to meet the guy with the rear TL Megan coilovers today. In another classic fb marketplace story, the guy says that "they used to be on my sister's car, but she went to prison." Oh sorry to hear about your sister dude. "yeah it's ok, she was a drug queen pin so she's doing 5 years, she'll be happy to hear they are sold, she could use the money in there." Oh, glad my money is going to good use, let's make sure we meet in a really public place...
coilovers ended up being an older model than mine, one of the 2 is covered in some kind of grease that sure looks like it came from a torn axle boot, but the shocks have good rebound and aren't leaking. The guy threw in a single OEM front TL spring/shock combo, said he had no use for it. Neither do I really, but It seems to be in decent shape, stamped LKQ on the top hat, it can't hurt at worst.
One of these years I'll clean out the back of my truck.
Tomorrow I get to measure for new spacers and test fit the coil overs and start formulating a plan for how to make either the TL or the Accord strut tower brace bolt up. Actually I've already been thinking about it but I haven't come up with a great plan yet.
Oh and I really need that alignment before the car is driveable; might be jumping steps to tackle the coilovers already but that's been sort of par for the course with this build.
Nah, get the parts you want to use in the car, get the ride height set, and then get it aligned (unless you have to drive it of course, then do it now) because ride height changes basically everything. If you do get it aligned now then get it done at a place that does the "free alignments for a year" and make sure the guys are cool with you mucking about with things between alignments.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
Thanks for that. I've literally never messed with suspension and/or ride height, so this sort of advice is invaluable.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
I ended up with 15mm 'adapter style' spacers on the front of my TL to fit 18x9" Genesis wheels... mainly because it was an 'easy button' in a time crunch. That gave me a solid inch of 'poke'... which I covered with fender rolling/pulling.
IIRC, 17x9 949 wheels needed a 5mm spacer to clear the brembo calipers, but doing that would have required longer studs... which I wasn't ready to do at the time.
There's not a lot of extra threads on the OEM studs, and the TL wheels seem to have particularly thin flange thickness. So, it's in your interest to swap on longer ARP studs when you decide to run the spacer.
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