Aluminum flywheel- Check
Eagle Rods- Check
Forged pistons- Ordered, or should I say backordered
Don't try and talk me outta it, I'm gonna do it. Gonna hot rod me an ancient engine. I like old/odd (read that not been produced for like 40 years) engines. Pontiac OHC sixes, MGC sixes and MGB fours, Datsun L series, and the object of this missive, a Toyota 20R. OK, some haven't been produced for 50 years, but you get the point.
I am well aware that modern engine will be able to run rings around a hot rod 20R, but to me it was one of the seminal engines of the era, an engine that you could beat on like it was a dead horse, and fire it up and drive to work the next morning. Kinda the crossroads of reliability, simplicity, and (yawn) performance. Same with the Datsun and Honda engines,
So the engine was taken apart before the move from MI to to WA. Does anyone have an exploded view of the engine and/or a parts list so I can dig through all the junk I moved and try to find the internal engine parts? I have the Celica service manual (I had an 80 that I drove until the doors fell off. Literally. I had to strap the driver's door closed and climb out the hatch)
Comments, questions, insults are all welcome here
Pics to follow as I get more interesting parts and start assembly
No judgement here!
Ebay has a whole section devoted to factory workshop manuals. I'd see if I can find one of those.
What part of WA? I know a lot of Yota guys out here
Between Leavenworth (near Wenatchee) and Stevens Pass in the Cascades on US Highway 2. Maybe 90 miles east of Seattle
Sounds like a fun project!
Check with forum member Oldeskewltoy if you are interested in head work. He is PNW local, a Toyota cylinder head guru, and is busy and might also be booked a ways out on work, but worth the wait if you are wanting to optimize a build for your goals.
I think I have the 20r engine service manual
We did a hot rodded 20r probably 8 years ago now. Still living.
So, much has happened in the last 6 or so weeks- I made still another trip out to Michigan to recover more of my junk laid up in a storage unit, spent just under 4 weeks in SoCal w/ the spousal unit. Back to WA for 4 days, and off again in about 2 hours for another trailer load of stuff from MI.
Still waiting for pistons. Contacted oldskewltoy, and delivered the head to him yesterday. He now has the head, new guides, valves, springs, retainers, keepers, and maybe some other stuff that escapes me. Enough to keep him busy for a short while, while I turn the hose on my credit card to cool it down. Ordered cam, rockers, and rocker shafts from the big, well known 20-22R supplier.
chandler said:
I think I have the 20r engine service manual
Interested in parting with it?
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) said:
We did a hot rodded 20r probably 8 years ago now. Still living.
Details?
In reply to twentyover :
Pistons, rod, cam, shaved head, decked block deal. No idea what it made power wise. Lived in a hard body yota drift truck.
I still try and make power with flatheads like an idiot. Just valves in the head is me moving forward more then I normally would. Love the idea keep us informed.
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to twentyover :
Pistons, rod, cam, shaved head, decked block deal. No idea what it made power wise. Lived in a hard body yota drift truck.
Did it have some lind of rev limiting scheme? Think that would be imperative for a drift car- but I don't know nuttin' bout those smoke machines.
Plan for this one is Wiseco forgings, Eagle rods, zero decking the block, & a thin cometic head gasket. Cam & valves, have an aluminum flywheel. Thinkin', just thinkin' bout bike carbs, as I really do not like DCOE's. Yeah, I know, greatest thing since canned beer, but you need a champaign budget. By the time I get to carbs my budget will support drinkin' water out of a hose pipe. Was thinking SU's, but oldeskewltoy is kinda trying to talk me out of those. Bough enuf aluminum for two head mounting plates, so I may just do something really incredibly stupid and build a carb and an SU manifold. Or not
Edited 4:18pm for spelling
I have a digital copy of the 20R FSM... can email it to you.......
oldeskewltoy said:
twentyover said:
Was thinking SU's, but oldeskewltoy is kinda trying to talk me out of those. Bough enuf aluminum for two head mounting plates, so I may just do something really incredibly stupid and build a carb and an SU manifold. Or not
Now, now.... all I poo pooed was running a set of HS6s, as I believe they would be too small, and the manifold runners would have little or no taper. I recommended using a pair of HS8s ( i know of a pair....) With the larger bore of the HS8s, and a tapered manifold the HS8s should be enough to supply the new engine with all the fuel/air it'll require
oldskewl-
True, that was your contention. If I do go with the SU, I will build the manifold to accommodate HS-8 carbs. I do believe our internal discussion focused on a meaty mid-range, so I am not convinced an HS-6 is too small. although I do agree the HS-8 would yield better top end power. To me, the advantage currently goes to HS-6, as I have a number of cores.
And thanks for the digital copy of the 20R manual
chandler said:
Mine is 22re
Well, I have both. Want the paperback as well?
Had a few minutes while the frozen lasagna was being irradiated, so painted an aluminum plate w/ Dykem and traced out the head plate for the intake
Square port on the right is water transfer to radiator- think I'm going to need to run a remote T-stat. The two rounds to the left of that are #1 & 2 intake ports; the next square is (I think) water feed to the intake for manifold heat, then the 3 & 4 intake ports. Think I'll put an AN like in the radiator outlet and not open up the manifold heat outlet. The tracing kind of tails off after that, as the next feature is part of the egr system, and not included as part of the intake. If you squint you can see the tracing on the dychem. And squinting makes you look funny
Tomorrow I'll get a snap center punch and hopefully a center drill to drill the mounting holes. Need to increase the intake port diameter allowance to permit a larger inlet tube. These will be sized so they have adequate wall so oldeskewl can blend them into the head. Sadly most of this aluminum will be hacked off or drilled out in the fabrication process
In reply to twentyover :
you might hold off on making the manifold for a bit..... Since you are making a custom manifold, it might pay to make a few additional modifications to the ports, which a custom manifold can take advantage of....
Not entirely sure yet.... but it looks like the roof of the intake ports might have enough room(material) in them to change the port shape - from round to oval. I should have the head back in my hands by the end of the week
You just eliminated the reason for me to go to town, and have consigned me to a morning of trying to organize the barn
On edit- I still went to town to pick up a snap punch, quality drill bits, but couldn't find a place with center drills, so I'll break out the online McMaster catalog tonight.
The intent was to drill manifold mounting holes and start cutting the plate. I was planning an additional material allowance for the intake ports- I'll just delay cuttung the plate out for now
The head is now back in my hands...
Note the air tubes are now missing(in photos above and below), and drilled/tapped for plugs
a few interesting specs... throat at the intake seat - 35.8mm (stock valve 43mm, new 44mm), throat at the exhaust seat 30.5mm (stock valve 35mm, new valve 36mm). Doing a bit of math, the intake throat is 83% of the valves diameter, and the exhaust is 87%.
Plan is to set the intake throat to just a tick above 85% of the new(44mm) valve - the new throat will be 37.5mm, and the exhaust throat to 87.5% of the new(36mm) valves - the new throat to 31.5mm. Last, the intake port @ the manifold flange (manifold and head meet) is roughly 31.5mm, there is some room in the port roof, walls, and floor - so I'll be opening the port some to take advantage where I can.
oldeskewltoy said:
In reply to twentyover :
you might hold off on making the manifold for a bit..... Since you are making a custom manifold, it might pay to make a few additional modifications to the ports, which a custom manifold can take advantage of....
and another reason to hold off.... port roof is compromised, the gasket will need some adjustment along with the ports.
Core Shift? Or maybe registration error in the machining fixture? All ports look to be similarly offset
twentyover said:
Core Shift? Or maybe registration error in the machining fixture? All ports look to be similarly offset
there is some core shift....
and some error in machining (gasket fits ports, OR most/many of the bolt holes)
1 down.....
