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Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UberDork
5/22/17 10:04 a.m.

Let me start this thread by saying this: I am an idiot.

Over the weekend, I attended the annual Mansfield Swap Meet in Mansfield, MA. Usually, I am on the hunt for Trans Am parts, and most years, I just end up buying random video games instead. This year, my 14 year old nephew asked to come with my usual crew, and since he's a budding gearhead with a doctorate in small engine-equipped things, he was on the lookout for parts for a vintage minibike project I gave him last year. He's already had a go-kart and 3-4 mini bikes in his short time turning wrenches, always wheeling and dealing like a junior GRM'er should.

So anyway, we were getting baked by the sun, roving the aisles looking for stuff, and there were lots of small engine'd machines and parts for sale. He struck a deal for a vintage Briggs & Stratton 3hp engine, running, for $15, and was happy. Later on, after asking about countless go-kart and mini bike frames and getting absurd price quotes, we came across a group of younger guys with two mini bikes: an old mini Indian trail bike, and a scary-but-cool bike with ape hanger bars and an extended swing arm, and a giant 8hp Tecumseh engine dominating the frame. We asked how much, and they came back at $80, firm. Interesting; it was the cheapest minibike we had seen all day, and one of the coolest. I also just bought a whole, mostly functioning car for $20 more, which is kinda sad.

We pondered and waffled, and some other guy went over and started asking about it. In most cases, I hate when that happens, but it was educational in this instance. We sat back and watched the guy poke and prod the thing. "Does it run?" the guy asked. "Yeah, but BLOCK YOUR EARS!!!" the seller responded. A couple pulls, and the 8hp Tecumseh roared to life with a deafening howl, but sounded good. "The chain is off because the motor's not aligned, and the throttle sticks", the seller yelled over the noise. The prospective buyer left without a sale, so we went back over. My nephew asked about the mini Indian, but the kid just got it that day in a trade and was asking somewhere north of $500, so we re-focused on the deathtrap. My nephew reminded me that it was worth the $80 in parts alone, and he had a couple other engines at his disposal if the 8hp was too much or unreliable, so we bought it.

Instantly, regret set in.

So, here's some pics.

My nephew with our "prize".

Ignoring my poor garage, check out the weirdness! It has a big whel and tire up front, and a smaller one out back on an extended swing arm. My nephew couldn't ID the frame, and thinks it's a customized build. Note the fart can sticking straight out the back.

Throttle bracket made out of scrap metal. It sorta works, but it's ugly.

That was the air filter. It fell apart already.

I'm digging the ape hanger look. And as an adult, it's more comfortable to ride, too. The forks are a little weird, but they will work.

Looking at the boogery "exhaust pipe", I noticed that the flange has no gasket at all. That explains the deafening volume of the engine. I'll have to address that.

The seller said something about the spark plug wire coming off at random (oh, great!), so I'll have to see about replacing that if I keep this 8HP monster on there.

It has this "idler" gear, mounted on a slot on the frame. My nephew says that this is usually where a pulley would be located, and the sprocket might be part of why the chain is falling off.

I went inside my house to grab a drink and came back out to this: My nephew pulled the motor already! He was looking for a stamping on the engine pad to ID the frame, but there was nothing there. Also, check out that diamond button tuck seat. Coolness! I will have to add a couple missing buttons and re-sew the bottom trim, but it's all there. Seats like this are hard to come by, and can cost as much as I paid for this stupid thing.

So there it is. What's the plan? In August, I'll be hitting up the 24 Hours of Lemons race with the Nuthin' But A Z Thang guys, and there are tentative plans for a 3-way race between this thing and two Whizzer-style bikes. I need to have it done by then.

What am I going to do to it to get to that goal? Here's a small list:

-Purchase and install new throttle assembly

-Purchase and install new brake handle and figure out how to make the drum brake work better

-Mock up engine for alignment

-Make it less noisy

-Clean frame and paint it some awesome early 70's color like metal flake bronze, and paint engine case white

-Replace rear tire (and maybe the wheel) with larger one

-Don't die

If anyone can ID the frame, that would be cool. Enjoy!!!

eastsidemav
eastsidemav SuperDork
5/22/17 11:53 a.m.

Sweet! I recently picked up a frame and a 5HP B&S engine in a trade recently, so I'll be following this closely.

fasted58
fasted58 MegaDork
5/22/17 12:28 p.m.

You must read any thread with Deathtrap Build in the title.

Cool

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UberDork
5/22/17 12:31 p.m.

So... any good places to buy parts?

I'm thinking about replacing the rear tire with a larger size that will still fit that wheel if possible, and I want to explore the possibility of converting to a rear disc brake.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
5/22/17 12:41 p.m.
Tony Sestito wrote: If anyone can ID the frame, that would be cool. Enjoy!!!

What is it?

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UberDork
5/22/17 1:24 p.m.

In reply to Zomby Woof:

Thanks, hopefully someone over there can help.

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UberDork
5/22/17 1:49 p.m.

Well, that was quick. Apparently it's an Arco EZ Rider Mini Chopper!!!

Obviously, someone ditched the sissy bar part, but that's ok. The rest of it looks pretty close.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy UltraDork
5/22/17 2:21 p.m.

My little deathtrap has the tank in one of the frame tubes, and it's pressurized to deliver the fuel to the carb. Pressurized fuel on a mini bike. I have a cheap Chinese pocket bike with disk brakes and the wheels and tires look like they are able the same OD and might just bolt on.

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UberDork
5/23/17 10:57 a.m.

So, after doing a bit more research, these Arco bikes were pretty popular and came in a variety of frame variations. This one, though, seems like a custom build. The front forks look like they were bent inward for some reason, and the rear swing arm looks to be extended. Here are a couple others that I've seen:

Both of those have a spoked front wheel (cool!) and the same rear wheel I currently have. I'm not sure if I should attempt to bend the forks back or switch to a spoked front, but at least those are some options.

A lot of Arco bikes didn't have the rear arm and shocks:

I'm actually digging the extended arm, which allows for the frame to remain less sloped in the rear and have some stability.

I've been leaning toward keeping that 8hp beast as well. It runs, and I can clean it up and paint it to look cool. I need to get it back on there and align everything to see if I can make it work. I also have a 5.5hp "Craftsman" side valve engine and a 3hp vintage Briggs that I could use if I wanted to.

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UberDork
5/24/17 8:15 a.m.

I worked on the Deathtrap a bit more last night. The goal was to do some more investigative work to see how modified the frame really was, as well as look into why the brake wasn't working.

Milk crates make GREAT mini bike work stands!

This tube is where they cut off the sissy bar. Both sides were jagged like this.

More evidence of customization. Those boogery welds are part of the swing arm modification.

The wheel/brake assembly. You can see the brake shoes poking through here.

On the other side of the rear wheel are all of these spacers. Not sure what's going on here.

The brake shoe mechanism is fairly simple. There's even some pad material left! That's because the brakes have not worked in a LONG time. The brake lever is from a pedal bike, and was missing some parts, causing the cable to do nothing. But with a new cable and lever, it WILL work.

I pulled the rear shocks and the wheel for cleaning. The shocks are still good, and the wheel is interesting in itself. It's actually a two piece wheel! I found out the hard way when I removed the six bolts that hold it together while air was still in the tire. Luckily, I didn't mess anything up. It's back together and good to go.

Here's where I might need some help. I am trying to ID the engine, and all the stickers were missing. I found these two stampings: the top being an ID tag on the engine block, and the bottom being the stamping on the carb. Anyone know of a place I can find out what this thing is?

So with that, I stopped for the night. One thing I need to figure out is engine alignment with the rear wheel. The guy I bought it from said that the chain liked to fall off. I noticed that the "tensioner gear slot" on the frame was something welded on later. See?

Usually, these things have a tensioner that attaches to the engine pad somewhere, but this has it on a vertical piece of frame. Part of the issue is that it's a gear and not a pulley. They sell delrin pulleys that should work with this on Amazon for a few bucks, so one of those will get ordered along with a new throttle control and brake lever soon.

chrispy
chrispy HalfDork
5/24/17 8:31 a.m.

Check ombwarehouse.com for parts and oldschoolminibike.com for other info. Cool build, I know you can get about 20 HP out of a Harbor Freight 212 Predator engine fairly inexpensively.

Sky_Render
Sky_Render SuperDork
5/24/17 9:55 a.m.

It needs to be green or purple with gold metal flake.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/24/17 11:16 a.m.

Timely thread as my son came home with a free Parnelli Jones Kawasaki mini bike yesterday. It's kind of cool actually. He had it stripped down to the frame in an hour and the head off the motor before I even saw it and said "hey that's a Parnelli Jones!" But all it needs is a new carb. Been sitting since Parnelli's last Indy race. Then I pointed out he has two dirt bikes and a half built pickup and questioned his priorities. Still cool though.

coexist
coexist New Reader
5/24/17 6:19 p.m.
mndsm
mndsm MegaDork
5/24/17 6:47 p.m.

I'm guessing the fork was pinched in to fit whatever wheel is on it, I bet the hub is more narrow than stock.

egnorant
egnorant SuperDork
5/24/17 10:25 p.m.

Careful with an 8 horse on that thing! We built one that was an instrument of DEATH! Named it Wooly Bully because no one could stay on for 8 seconds. First test was a massive wheelie and my friend held on to the handlebars so the bike just turned around and attacked him with a footpeg. Second run with a bit more forward bias resulted in another wheelie, flipped over backwards and attacked his shin with a spinning tire. Friend A retired from bike testing and friend B stepped up. He took it to the grass for less traction and was nearly sitting on the handlebars. Immediately the bike yank itself out from under him, leaving him prone on the ground, turned 90 degrees and bounced off a tree only to return to attack with hot and pointy bits. We then used science and bolted 2 50 pound weights above the front wheel, adjusted throttle to not open so quick and headed for a sandy area for even less traction. Still took off like a rocket, but no wheelie! God put a small bump and when the back tire landed it did a massive wheelie and attacked ME with all the previous mentioned weapons plus and extra 100 pounds of blunt force.

Sold it a week later at a swap meet to an enthusiastic young man who just wanted it more as I warned him of his imminent death with terror. I recommended an exorcism but he promptly got on with his girlfriend and rolled off to my relief. 40 feet away he cranked it up and took off straight and fast...with the girlfriend flying off the back before he hit a pipe fence and flipped over it. I watched in awe as he got up, picked some gravel out of his shoulder, gathered his bruised and scraped girlfriend and walked the bike away.

Bruce

coexist
coexist New Reader
5/24/17 11:20 p.m.

Wow, epic posting there!

Shouldn't be too hard to avoid that problem though

einy
einy Reader
5/25/17 7:52 a.m.

In reply to egnorant:

Bruce - your story reminded me of the joy of scrubbing gravel on multiple occasions from various flesh wounds dealt to me by the "modest" 5 HP Briggs or Tecumseh (depending on what I could lay my hands on at that point in time) two wheeled deathtrap I had as a kid, many moons ago! Good times ... must of had a lasting impression on my folks, as they STILL talk about that terror ~ 35'ish years later!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/25/17 10:33 a.m.

Wish I could find the story of hairyfeet's "Angry Bee" on Slashdot, a sooped-up minibike that brought similar consequences.

Edit: Found it! It was called The Mad Bee

Link 2

Link 3

(Rated S for Survivorship Bias )

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UberDork
5/25/17 12:48 p.m.

I'm no stranger to small engine'd things going way too fast. When I was 10, I scraped up enough cash to buy a go-kart out of the Want Ad (aka paper Craigslist). It came with a 5hp Tecumseh, which I flogged until the rod broke in half! Then, thanks to my dad, he helped me install a 6hp engine on the thing. That stupid thing went damn near close to 40mph, and balded the left rear tire in no time!!!

On this thing, I'm hoping that extended swing arm keeps things planted.

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UberDork
5/25/17 12:53 p.m.

Oh, and BTW, I ordered a new non-gear chain idler, a new brake lever, and a new throttle control. It should arrive on Saturday. I'm hoping to do a mock-up of the engine with the chain so I can see if I can get it all aligned. Then, it's time for paint.

I saw the gold sparkle above, and that's in the running. I'm not sure what color to paint it yet. Originally, I wanted gold or bronze sparkle, then I was thinking green as a tribute to my original mini bike from my youth, but today I'm thinking red or silver sparkle. If I do red, green, or bronze/gold, the engine cover will be white. If I do silver, it will be red, kinda like my Trans Am. I could even get little firechicken decals for it.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
5/25/17 1:46 p.m.
Tony Sestito wrote: In reply to Zomby Woof: Thanks, hopefully someone over there can help.

Looks like they got it. Good group over there.

Thinkkker
Thinkkker UltraDork
5/26/17 12:03 p.m.

I procured a mini bike project from a friend. It has some sort of Doodle bug wheels, so I have been machining adapters for it. I.E. I have a harbor freight benchtop drill press, 1/4" thick aluminum plate, and an adjustable wood boring bit. just needs a little bit of filing to be perfect one down, one to go.

I think I am going to go for a nice Safety Blue base, with blue metal flake paint job. Then, just go ahead and try my hand at pin striping.

I look forward to your build and watching this more.

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito PowerDork
5/31/17 9:45 a.m.

Over the long weekend, I puttered around with the Deathtrap a bit. Nothing good came of that.

When I bought it, the guy mentioned something about the engine needing to be aligned. What he didn't mention is that the 8hp engine was too damn big for the chassis, and there's no way to ever align it. The block is too wide, and the engine sits so low that the chain hits everything. With my new idler pulley in place, it's even worse.

As you can see, it isn't going to work. If I move the engine to the right at all, the spark plug hits the frame.

Luckily, I have a 5.5hp "Craftsman" OHV engine with an electric start from an old snowblower that should be a better fit. I'm going to test that out this week. I may have to switch over to a jackshaft-style setup to make it all work, though.

fanfoy
fanfoy Dork
5/31/17 10:04 a.m.

Wouldn't a transfer shaft fix the mis-alignment?

Move the engine to the left. Run a chain to the sprocket of the transfer shaft that is outside the frame and higher than the idler pulley you have. Than run another chain from the sprocket inside the frame to the rear wheel.

It's a bit of work but would let you keep the big engine.

Edit:

Sorta like this:

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