Grounding straps are so easy to overlook! I did the same with my spyder, though it just yanked the wire out of the terminal as I was lifting the car off the subframe.
Grounding straps are so easy to overlook! I did the same with my spyder, though it just yanked the wire out of the terminal as I was lifting the car off the subframe.
In reply to dculberson :
In the 1970's Volvo used grounding straps with a tensile strength equal to that of the frame rails of most cars of the time.
Enjoying this build hpe the pace keeps up.
Pete
In reply to NOHOME :
Forewarned, it is going to slow for a few months soon. I have a pile of lumber in the backyard that is supposed to turn itself into a 12 x 16 barn and an attached 16 x 30 chicken coop & run before the snow flies. So that's gonna eat into my time a little.
Solution to the chicken coop problem:
Eat more chicken.
No, just kidding. I still gots to build da coop. But I decided I could hammer away at it for an hour or two after I get home from work, and thus preserve my post-kiddos-bedtime garage therapy session.
Picking up my pickle fork and large, stubby hammer, I divorced the steering linkages from the front suspension.
And the 18V Milwaukee impact extracted the rest.
It's some sort of a testament to Swedish steel, and scandanavian engineering, that this thing managed to stay together and go down the road. There's some serious structural corrosion going on here.
The rubber of the sway bar mount is visible through the top of the frame. Which is to say, where the frame used to be. In some time in the way far back past.
Also, the steering connecting dealie was about as straight as a third tier paycheck loan officer.
As parts come off and a clearer picture of the rust situation forms, the repair is unfolding mentally. Taking small steps, every night, allows proper cogitation and development of a plan. At this point, I can visualize where the cuts are going to be, how to form the repair pieces, and welding it all together.
Sparks are gonna fly soon...
volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to dculberson :
In the 1970's Volvo used grounding straps with a tensile strength equal to that of the frame rails of most cars of the time.
Volvo weren't taking any chances with the ground strap on these cars. About 1" wide steel braid. They likely went with an overkill strap considering the EFI system is dependent on a good ground connection.
I have some engine bay sheet metal that might be useful to you... can take photos if you need.
You may also consider building square tube frame rails and a new front x member/suspension/rack and pinion. Look up my build on here (I am posting an update in a few days too).
True... given how much structural reconstruction you have ahead of you, there is the option of redesigning the mounting points for a different suspension sub-frame. Say from a Miata maybe? Sort of how Bad Obsession did Binky vs Pete's Molvo pan-swap route.
The Miata could work if you graft it in the right place. Recall that I had to move the susension forward 7" from the firewall to make everything work.
I would seriously be looking at the BMW chassis swap if I had that much structural rust. Not only is there a roadmap, it would be a killer car and probably easier than the rust remediation your are about to undertake. Caveat is the fuel tank location needs to be sorted cause wagon.
Pete
In reply to NOHOME :
I wouldn't graft in the Miata body parts - just the sub-frame - and fabricate the mounting points the way Binky was done. Maybe similar for the rear (or just find a 4x100 solid rear axle), hopefully leaving the ES tank location as-is. Since VCH has young kids, I'm assuming a somewhat functional back seat will be a requirement for this car.
In reply to Ian F :
The Miata rear suspension subframe can be grafted into the Volvo without losing the rear seat. Couple of notches into the seat area. That was where I started the project.
Pete
In reply to Ian F :
Glad to see this topic is generating some engineering discussion. I was hoping for some input. Thank you (and everyone else who's participating).
My original thought was to simply keep everything 100% OEM. THe corrosion pictured is actually not typical of the rest of the front frame horns. For some reason, water seems to have collected here and caused this rot. Everywhere else in front of the firewall is pretty solid.
However, the further I go, the more I think some modifications might make things easier. In researching electric power steering for another friend's project, I discovered that the racks used on the business end of these systems seem to be very simple and uncluttered- and it seems like they would be good to use for a manual steering system. So now I'm thinking about leaving the stock suspension and splicing in an unpowered rack for the steering, hooking it up to the stock steering column/ wheel. Or maybe find some other OEM column- tilt/ telescope might be nice....
275nart, your build is amazing. I plan to flip through it some more for possible inspiration.
The rear seats in the ES are a joke, and not a very good one. I don't predict using this as anything but a 1 or 2 seater. Besides, some of the chassis strengthening I plan to do may cut into the rear seat wells.
My concern about any of the rack & pinion conversions I've seen is how they will work with the front suspension so as not to induce bump-steer and inconsistent Ackerman. While I haven't modeled anything, the geometry just doesn't look right to me when you bolt a rack to the front on the OE sub-frame. I have a Miata power steering rack that I bought for this specific reason and you are welcome to have it if you want to try. I had planned to relocate the battery to the rear of the car anyway and planned to install the electric P/S pump from a MINI under the car near the battery (with solid steel hydraulic lines from the pump forward) to power the rack.
(While I haven't been able to actually work on my car, I've spent many, many hours thinking about what I want to do to it...)
I've basically resigned to going with the EZ-Powersteering bolt-in electric set-up from the NL. It's kind of the "easy button" for these cars and especially for my intended use as a comfortable GT. The only times I've really wanted power steering is when parking and on really tight, twisty back roads. The first few corners are ok, but after a few corners your arms are screaming. A road like the Dragon would require arms of steel.
Yeah... the ES back seats are definitely a joke. I was forced to spend 30 minutes back there once when my ex- was driving us and her aunt to a car show.
In reply to Ian F :
Near as I can figure (stolen shamelessly from tuna55 truck build thread):
One trick I have up my sleeve involves converting the front-steer setup on the suspension to rear-steer.
The second trick involves putting the engine someplace else.
I like the 122/ 1800 front suspension- it's compact, it encases the springs and the dampers, and it tidily unbolts from the car. It's also easy to set camber, caster, and toe with.
I've daily driven 122's. I love the non-power steering, it doesn't feel heavy to me at all. But I also road-race Plymford, which has a de-powered rack and weighs something like 2 tons.
Mrs. VCH used to daily drive a '68 Camaro with no power anything...other than the SBC under the hood. 
Yeah, we're weird.
It is really simple to convert to the saturn/GM EPS column. Look through my thread and I did it. If you want to keep your original wheel and stalk switches there was another guy on swedespeed who grafted the EPS motor onto the orginal volvo column which required a tad more work but was simple. Cost is under $200 all said and done whichever route you go.
In your shoes I would definitely go with new frame rails- replace them all the way under the car, and use a bolt in oem full front clip (crown vic, etc.) or full aftermarket kit, mustang 2 style (what I did). This is what gave me the idea
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=266659
If you do want to work with what you got, I have these.. I was going to toss them.
One of the nicest things about this structure is how many of the folds are 90 degrees. It makes fabricating duplicates much easier. I have welded in the front of several of these cars, but none nearly as rusty as this one. Last time was 25 years ago too.
It would certainly cost more, and I have no idea how it would fit, but the ND front suspension is quite the thing of beauty. Once I was able to spend half an hour under the car staring at it I lost all interest in doing anything with NA/NB parts.
Take 275nart up on his offer. I can attest to how cherry the tin is. Here is one of his donor door skins doing 80 mph!
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
Front steer generally provides better geometry than rear steer. To put it another way, NASCAR didn't go front steer until a decade or two ago.
tester said:In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
Front steer generally provides better geometry than rear steer. To put it another way, NASCAR didn't go front steer until a decade or two ago.
Interesting, I always thought it was the other way around. Something about the steering being in compression vs tension. Also, I think most modern cars are rear steer...though that may be more for packaging than anything. Will have to investigate.
EDIT: Some fairly good discussion on this over at the H.A.M.B. Looks like front steer might be better, as you mentioned. Hmm. May have to rethink my packaging and rack options.
In reply to NOHOME :
I'd love to, but seeing as how he's 500 miles away, getting said tin will likely be no mean feat on his end. Shame, because those do look clean. And as TurnerX19 pointed out, the framework isn't all that complex a geometry. I can pretty much stitch it all together out of old bedframe irons.
Last night being the anniversary of the date Mrs. VCH promised to stick with me no matter how many crazy car projects I dragged home (I'm pretty sure that was an actual vow), I did not get out to the garage. Luckily, my updates here are lagging by a day or so, so I still have a little something in the pipe for you.
The Deeper In...
In which the 1800ES ceases to be a roller.
And I get a gooder handle on the front right frame rail reconstruction.
Luckily, these sections should be relatively straightforward to create replicas of. Also luckily, I only have to do it once. Here's the driver's side rail:
Pretty solid.
The front connecting box section has some rust-through on the vertical section, and it's not really accessible with the front clip in place. The plan developing in my head there is to sister up another box section connecting the two sides. Depending on what radiator I use, this may become part of the mounting for that.
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
Early Taurus is the only common rear steer rack and pinion that comes to mind. There are probably others, but I suspect all of them are family sedan or cute Ute applications.
Nice work! You are moving along quickly!!
In reply to tester :
Thanks. Owing perhaps to the fact that we raced a 122 for a bunch of years in LeMons, and the fact that I've worked on/ parted out something like a dozen 122/ 1800, I can pretty much do all this work blindfolded. Remember how we swapped a B18 in Charlie in about 45 minutes?
If you just want that front part of the rail where the x member bolts on it I can cut it off and ship it to you. It might be cut a little further back from the radiator support than you need though.
275nart said:If you just want that front part of the rail where the x member bolts on it I can cut it off and ship it to you. It might be cut a little further back from the radiator support than you need though.
I think I'll fab it up from scratch. Yeah, if they'd been cut right at the radiator support they'd have worked perfectly, but as I need all of that it might just be easier to work with virgin plate. Thanks for the offer, though, I appreciate it!
You'll need to log in to post.
