Volvo 240 Rally Build

Knurled. said:

irish44j said:

Nesegleh said:

In reply to irish44j :

I got one of these. I don't know if there is a difference between gravel and tarmac inserts besides the valving, but I got those because the valving is better suited to my car (and probably e30's as well). Also got one of these. I'm hoping I can just redrill and tap the holes for the top mount but we'll see.

Purpose right now (and why I only bought one of each) is just to take measurements and see if I can come up with a design that I can realistically make, and also determine what length I'm looking at for the strut housing. I'll post the measurements when I get em.

That's the tarmac valving (even says so at the top ;) ). 

The other one is valved for gravel/forest

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/bilstein-group-4-escort-mk1-mk2-front-gravel-long-insert-260-60-blsf4-xde-g778-t0/

As to the top hats....not personally a fan of spherical (anything) for rally, unless you're gonna be religious about taking it apart and cleaning it all the time. 

I am assuming that those inserts are "dumb" inserts that need to go in a tube that has its own bushings/seals?

Those are inverted inserts so as far as I know you just put it in a tube of the correct diameter (ie a stock 40mm Bilstein tube with the guts taken out) and length. The length is what I need to check.

irish44j said:

btw, from a very experienced e30 rally driver in the UK, regarding damper rates. Granted this is for an e30 and Volvo is a bit heavier, but once you have cage and spare tires and stuff the Volvo probably isn't THAT proportionally heavier.

Interesting that his spring rate advice is almost exactly what I currently have on my car, which I determined by my own calculations. 

Yea that sounds right for the front. Curious what the weight of his car is. 

I'm hoping to do 250 lb/in springs and those struts based off what John V used to supply. BTW I bought those inserts on a whim, glad to hear other people have had success with the escort stuff before.

Got the control arms welded tonight. Tried to get em cleanerbefore welding, starting with scraping them down, again. Promptly cut the E36 M3 out of my finger on a control arm, so I called it good it enough. 

Rough cut the templates with the sawzall, intending to finish them with the portaband. Greatly over estimated the reach of the portaband: 

Finished them up with the 5 inch, then bent them to somewhat follow the contour of the control arms (clamped them before welding to fill in the rest of the gaps). 

Welded up nicely, aside from being on fire literally the entire time I was welding. 

Just have to drill a hole for access to the third ball joint nut, paint, then put in the new poly bushings. Still have to do that, adapt Josh's old skidplate, mud flaps, and make a strut bar before the August 25th rallyx.

Need recommendations for cage builders in MD/ northern VA. Want to get quotes and see if I can swing it this winter.

Painted, with poly bushing:

Nesegleh said:

Need recommendations for cage builders in MD/ northern VA. Want to get quotes and see if I can swing it this winter.

I'd stay away from any pro cage builders in this area as they tend to be pretty pricey. Piper once quoted me like $8k to do one in a car lol.....

Maybe talk to Corey McKenzie from rallycross up in Frostburg - I know he builds them for his cars, maybe would give you a good deal. 

irish44j said:

Nesegleh said:

Need recommendations for cage builders in MD/ northern VA. Want to get quotes and see if I can swing it this winter.

I'd stay away from any pro cage builders in this area as they tend to be pretty pricey. Piper once quoted me like $8k to do one in a car lol.....

Maybe talk to Corey McKenzie from rallycross up in Frostburg - I know he builds them for his cars, maybe would give you a good deal. 

Yea one place quoted me 8-15k ... Cheapest quote I got was 5k for just the base cage and required gussets, me doing basically all the prep, no seat mounts, harness mounts, or extras (and this was at a discounted rate cus I brought up how broke I am). Ugh.

If Corey doesn't pan out I guess I'll do it myself. 

Nesegleh said:

irish44j said:

Nesegleh said:

Need recommendations for cage builders in MD/ northern VA. Want to get quotes and see if I can swing it this winter.

I'd stay away from any pro cage builders in this area as they tend to be pretty pricey. Piper once quoted me like $8k to do one in a car lol.....

Maybe talk to Corey McKenzie from rallycross up in Frostburg - I know he builds them for his cars, maybe would give you a good deal. 

Yea one place quoted me 8-15k ... Cheapest quote I got was 5k for just the base cage and required gussets, me doing basically all the prep, no seat mounts, harness mounts, or extras (and this was at a discounted rate cus I brought up how broke I am). Ugh.

If Corey doesn't pan out I guess I'll do it myself. 

Could also talk to Ozgur and see if he's interested (he has built several cages). I think material for mine was about $1k.

Also could check with Billy Petrow at Broken Motorsports in NJ, as they do a lot of rally cages. A Volvo really should be a pretty easy cage since it's so "square"

$3.5k - $5k seems like the typical rough quote I've received for rally cages in my area.

irish44j said:

Nesegleh said:

irish44j said:

Nesegleh said:

Need recommendations for cage builders in MD/ northern VA. Want to get quotes and see if I can swing it this winter.

I'd stay away from any pro cage builders in this area as they tend to be pretty pricey. Piper once quoted me like $8k to do one in a car lol.....

Maybe talk to Corey McKenzie from rallycross up in Frostburg - I know he builds them for his cars, maybe would give you a good deal. 

Yea one place quoted me 8-15k ... Cheapest quote I got was 5k for just the base cage and required gussets, me doing basically all the prep, no seat mounts, harness mounts, or extras (and this was at a discounted rate cus I brought up how broke I am). Ugh.

If Corey doesn't pan out I guess I'll do it myself. 

Could also talk to Ozgur and see if he's interested (he has built several cages). I think material for mine was about $1k.

Also could check with Billy Petrow at Broken Motorsports in NJ, as they do a lot of rally cages. A Volvo really should be a pretty easy cage since it's so "square"

Facebook or you want to send me his email/phone #?

artur1808 said:

$3.5k - $5k seems like the typical rough quote I've received for rally cages in my area.

This is more in line with what I was expecting. If only....

In reply to Nesegleh :

Come on up to Michigan. 31Motorsports and TRF are the big names in the area and both were in that ballpark when I called them. Both do tons of rally-specific cage work so they're intimately familiar with all the rules. I believe that Ryan from TRF even has a hand in writing the technical rulebook for ARA. 

I know a guy that is currently building a 240 for stage rally and travels to build cages.

EvanB said:

I know a guy that is currently building a 240 for stage rally and travels to build cages.

Mind sending me his contact info?

EvanB said:

I know a guy that is currently building a 240 for stage rally and travels to build cages.

And conveniently Thomas has a metric ton of welding and metalworking equipment at his house :)

In reply to Nesegleh :

Hey I know this guy ;)

Adam Brock, of 9hio. He did the roll bar in my XR, and a cage in my buddies Lemon's car down in TX. He's based in Ohio but has a mobile setup with a bender, did the roll bar for my car in my own garage.

In reply to TXratti :

Yep, that's him. I believe he also needs to take a trip to Maryland for a Volvo axle.

https://9hio.com

EvanB said:

In reply to TXratti :

Yep, that's him. I believe he also needs to take a trip to Maryland for a Volvo axle.

https://9hio.com

Quote has been requested, thanks!

Did a thing today:

4.10 rear end from a 95 940, fresh from the pick n pull. To my surprise they don't share the same housing, just the same ring and pinion sizes (but different ratio). 

Plan is to swap the r and p into my diff, keeping the g80 locker from my car. Also going to take out the centrifugal disengagement thingy so it will still lock up over 25 mph. I've heard good things about lockers for rally, but not much about the Volvo locker. Might be junk at speed but we'll see.

In reply to Nesegleh :

Volvo totally ruined the rear suspension geometry on the 7 and 9 series live axle. One of the main reasons I will drive a 240 for the remainder of my life.

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to Nesegleh :

Volvo totally ruined the rear suspension geometry on the 7 and 9 series live axle. One of the main reasons I will drive a 240 for the remainder of my life.

Yea I was so confused when I got under it. Thought it had a 4 link at first but realized it only has the links on one side of the axle. Interesting design to say the least...

In reply to Nesegleh :

The thing that spoils the late car is not the absents of the 4th link, it is the similarity of length and parallelism of the upper and lower links. This negates the anti-squat which the 240 has in abundance.

Any reason you stuck with the Volvo axle over an 8.8? I thought you could find 4.10 8.8's at junkyards relatively easily and you seem to have the fabrication abilities to slap one under a volvo.

In reply to artur1808 :

I could but a Volvo one is easier. I don't have much time before I have to get the car buttoned up before going to school so don't want to take on any big projects. 

Maybe I'll do it if (....when) I put a t5 in it.

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to Nesegleh :

The thing that spoils the late car is not the absents of the 4th link, it is the similarity of length and parallelism of the upper and lower links. This negates the anti-squat which the 240 has in abundance.

Hmm things seem much different on dirt, where (for rwd) the car should squat quite a bit on acceleration. Atleast for solid axle cars.