In reply to irish44j :
Yes for some relatively low level rally cars it makes sense to keep rubber in the system. But top level rally cars (not even just wrc/r5, even decent spec 2wd cars in Europe) ARE race cars. If I'm putting in effort into this car I'm gonna try and go that direction.
Volvo's are tanks (body wise). Double skinned strut towers stock, very few problems (which will be addressed). Many people have had success w/ solid everything on this car. I've also heard people (on other cars) have problems with bushings having too much play and bending E36 M3 (struts namely). Just depends on the car.
In reply to Nesegleh :
Top level rally cars also get everything rebuilt on a regular basis and the shells last a year tops. (IIRC, WRC shells are only used for two events!)
Do you want to have fun, or find new and interesting ways to spend money? 
FWIW the rod ends in my suspension last about one rallycross. There are some locations that require rod ends due to articulation, rubber won't work. Tried it. I use beat up sloppy old ends because I have more fires to put out than rebuilding the suspension all the time. (Like rebuilding the rearend all the time...)
In reply to Knurled. :
Mmm yes this is certainly because they don't use rubber bushings... Not because they are the fastest rallycars on the planet and driven accordingly....
In reply to Nesegleh :
Rod ends/spherical bearings are wear items, period. They also transmit more shock loading to the pickup points and the rest of the shell, so the shell also becomes a wear item. Where you see "FASTEST ON EARTH" I see them spending more money on a 20 minute service than most rallyists in the US spend on an entire year of rallying.
When Ford put together their manual for making a fast Escort for privateers, they specifically called out rubber bushes anywhere the links met the shell. They did use "rose joints" or metallic bushes in places but only sparingly, and in places where it wouldn't kill things. (The slipper at the front of the rear springs, the axle end of the 4 link, and IIRC the rear shock mountings) Then again the book was written for the guy spending his own money, not someone else's.
Cripes, I think I'm starting to channel JVL.
Knurled. said:
In reply to Nesegleh :
Rod ends/spherical bearings are wear items, period. They also transmit more shock loading to the pickup points and the rest of the shell, so the shell also becomes a wear item. Where you see "FASTEST ON EARTH" I see them spending more money on a 20 minute service than most rallyists in the US spend on an entire year of rallying.
When Ford put together their manual for making a fast Escort for privateers, they specifically called out rubber bushes anywhere the links met the shell. They did use "rose joints" or metallic bushes in places but only sparingly, and in places where it wouldn't kill things. (The slipper at the front of the rear springs, the axle end of the 4 link, and IIRC the rear shock mountings) Then again the book was written for the guy spending his own money, not someone else's.
Cripes, I think I'm starting to channel JVL.
lol, you do sound a bit like JVL.
we all have to learn things the hard way though, lol. I've certainly un-done stuff like that. I had camber plates, I had lots of solid and hard-durometer poly. After having most of these parts fail rather quickly doing rallycross/rally (and having them add ZERO performance, and actually detract from it in some aspects), I now have a lot of rubber stuff.
YMMV.
Didnt know your were going to campaign in wrc.
Great progress so far but all this stuff makes for a great 3rd year rally car.
Cage, saftey, strong, race
Then super happy go fast.
We have a saying aroung here. Lots of people spend tons of money to not go any faster.
side note : is this going to be ready for next weekend's double-rallycross?
irish44j said:
side note : is this going to be ready for next weekend's double-rallycross?
Yea, can only make it Sunday bc of school E36 M3 though.
Nesegleh said:
irish44j said:
side note : is this going to be ready for next weekend's double-rallycross?
Yea, can only make it Sunday bc of school E36 M3 though.
fab. I think we have like 18 cars coming for MR class.
irish44j said:lol, you do sound a bit like JVL.
I quit smoking a ways back, so I'll just have to double up on how much tea I drink. Buy an old SAAB. Or maybe two.
we all have to learn things the hard way though, lol. I've certainly un-done stuff like that. I had camber plates, I had lots of solid and hard-durometer poly. After having most of these parts fail rather quickly doing rallycross/rally (and having them add ZERO performance, and actually detract from it in some aspects), I now have a lot of rubber stuff.
Some people can be told, some people just have to piss on the electric fence.
FWIW when I first did my 9", the lower links were rod ends. That lasted exactly one drive around the block before I pulled the chassis side rod ends out and made threaded-sleeve friendly rubber bushed ends out of an old OEM suspension link and some left hand thread 5/8-NF allthread that I had kicking around.
Knurled. said:
irish44j said:lol, you do sound a bit like JVL.
I quit smoking a ways back, so I'll just have to double up on how much tea I drink. Buy an old SAAB. Or maybe two.
we all have to learn things the hard way though, lol. I've certainly un-done stuff like that. I had camber plates, I had lots of solid and hard-durometer poly. After having most of these parts fail rather quickly doing rallycross/rally (and having them add ZERO performance, and actually detract from it in some aspects), I now have a lot of rubber stuff.
Some people can be told, some people just have to piss on the electric fence.
In Thomas's defense, I never listen to you either 
In reply to irish44j :
That's probably for the best :)
Knurled. said:
In reply to Nesegleh :
Rod ends/spherical bearings are wear items, period. They also transmit more shock loading to the pickup points and the rest of the shell, so the shell also becomes a wear item. Where you see "FASTEST ON EARTH" I see them spending more money on a 20 minute service than most rallyists in the US spend on an entire year of rallying.
When Ford put together their manual for making a fast Escort for privateers, they specifically called out rubber bushes anywhere the links met the shell. They did use "rose joints" or metallic bushes in places but only sparingly, and in places where it wouldn't kill things. (The slipper at the front of the rear springs, the axle end of the 4 link, and IIRC the rear shock mountings) Then again the book was written for the guy spending his own money, not someone else's.
Cripes, I think I'm starting to channel JVL.
Dude, what? I'm sorry your rx7 wasn't good with rod ends lol. My car isn't an rx7, or an escort.
The top mounts were $70 a piece. Stop being butthurt
In reply to Nesegleh :
It's nice that you got cheap top mounts. I'm not butthurt, I want to see people having a good time, and for 99% of the people, fixing broken E36 M3 instead of driving is not a good time. It appears that irish44j also wishes to impart his experience on having a good time with respect to keeping the drive:spend:wrench ratio in check, and in this rare instance we're in agreement
Maybe you are one of the 1% who like working on it as much as driving it. I used to be one of them too. I got tired of it after a decade or so. And, to be honest, I see his relative ease in E30ness and think of jumping ship and going that way myself while E30s are still cheap.
And no, a Volvo 240 is definitely not an Escort, although it does have a lot of the same benefits as one, being a fairly simple 3 box solid axle RWD car with a robust design.
In reply to Knurled. :
Appreciate the input. Maybe next time try and follow Josh's approach of not being a prick? This isn't rallyanarchy.
Nesegleh said:
In reply to Knurled. :
Appreciate the input. Maybe next time try and follow Josh's approach of not being a prick? This isn't rallyanarchy.
someone called me "not a prick" (I mean, I kind of am)
So unrelated, for the front shock housings, how are those in length vs. the stock volvo struts? Will you be able to chop above the "ears" or will you have to build new assemblies with new knuckle mounting tabs?
I am jealous on that account. Nothing is more anoying than the 1-piece strut-knuckle setup the e30 has.
irish44j said:
Nesegleh said:
In reply to Knurled. :
Appreciate the input. Maybe next time try and follow Josh's approach of not being a prick? This isn't rallyanarchy.
someone called me "not a prick" (I mean, I kind of am)
So unrelated, for the front shock housings, how are those in length vs. the stock volvo struts? Will you be able to chop above the "ears" or will you have to build new assemblies with new knuckle mounting tabs?
I am jealous on that account. Nothing is more anoying than the 1-piece strut-knuckle setup the e30 has.
Not quite sure what you mean so I'll just lay out what I'm planning on doing. Basically it's gonna end up having the Subaru strut design, w/ a gooseneck welded to the knuckle, bolted to ears which are welded onto the strut tubes.
Stock Volvo strut tubes are pressed and slightly deformed inside the knuckle. The two can be separated by chopping near the knuckle, sawzalling a slit into the sleeve and hammering it out (or use a lathe if you wanna do it the "right" way).
Then weld in your handy little gooseneck thingy, complete with subaru bolt pattern (M14, 65mm between bolts iirc). Made from inch thick steel.
Weld some (probably) 3/16" steel ears to the tube and your done. Will be like what Dan has (if all goes well):
Might have to do some funny business up top to fit the height but obviously doable for e30's. You got a welder right? :)
On Volvo's everything works out nice, the new struts are approx 2" shorter, which will be made up for in the gooseneck.
Ah, for some reason I thought Volvo was already that design from the factory, rather than the pressed setup like an e30. Nevermind then.
Where does one buy such a "gooseneck thingy"?
artur1808 said:
Where does one buy such a "gooseneck thingy"?
Nowhere anymore (that I know of). John V used to make the whole assembly (he probably made the ones pictured) but he's since stopped.
I was planning on making em, probably start with the plasma cutter then grind the edges down smooth.
Nesegleh said:
In reply to Knurled. :
Appreciate the input. Maybe next time try and follow Josh's approach of not being a prick? This isn't rallyanarchy.
Text is difficilt for items to come across. If trying to offer insight is "being a prick", then that's your feeling.
Finally finished v1 of the skid plate. Started with Josh's old skid plate, that he replaced after smashing an oil pan at NEFR last year. Ha. As it sat:
It's 1/8" stainless which I think will be fine with an adequate frame supporting it. So I started on that. To support the back I used two pieces on angle running back from the cross member (which is infront of the oil pan on this car) to the frame rails.
Then I turned the part that goes under the crossmember into box section to spread the load and tuck it up against the car more. Also sloped the front.
Tacked everything into place on the car:
Angle should help protect the control arm mounting too.
Next job was to make the skid plate fit, because it was for an e30. Had to add some bends to get it to come up to the radiator support. Use a grinder to weaken where it's going to be bent:
Then clamp it and bend it (and stand on the table so it doesn't tip)
Then weld where it was weakened + add some gussets if ya want:
Booger welds are strongest, right?
Drilled clearnece holes for the frame to crossmember bolts, then regular holes in the radiator support then in the support frame.
Also pulled off the air dam. Bonus cool fact is that people love chassis braces for this car, which is essentially the same as those pieces of angle I made.
Right now it doesn't go far enough back (ends just past the halfway point of the oil pan) and it is lacking support, especially in the front. Those will be addressed in time but I'm calling it good for rallycross this weekend.
oil pan behind the subframe must be nice................... 
Did some mods to the airbox. Typically these cars have a warm and a cold air intake, with a thermostat inside the airbox to switch between them.
The thermostat:
Removed (it's just held in with clips):
Plugged up the clip holes with rtv and put a rubber plug into the hole for the warm air intake. Also ran a ziptie in place of the broken clip.
