This car belongs to my son. Long story short, he's 18 and learning (the hard way) about what he does and doesn't like in cars. He used to have a '94 Mustang GT which I had purchased from AnthonyGS on this board several years ago. He drove it and loved it but wanted "more". He has been working steadily since he turned 16 and saved his money. I tried and tried to convince him to just spend less than 50% of his money and do some upkeep/upgrades on the GT, but he insisted otherwise. He bought this '96 Cobra several months ago. It's got a ton of mods. It runs very well...it's loud and fast. Looks good, runs good. Here's the problem...it's got a faceplated transmission. He swore up and down when he bought it that he would be OK with it and like it. I tried to tell him otherwise, but what the berkeley do I know??? Hate to say I told ya so, but....
Anyway, now he just wants to get out of it without losing much money. EDIT: Price is now $8500.
What does "faceplated" transmission mean?
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Does faceplating make it more difficult to shift during DD use?
Stupid me asking - can you swap out the tranny to make life better?
This is very, very similar to the mods my 96 Cobra had, which was able to do 13.3's@109 in the 1/4 with 3.55's and lap Portland International Raceway w/chicane in the mid to high 1:30's range, which is quick. The trans is a bummer, but T45s are getting thin on the ground. You might be able to trade for a T56 from a New Edge Cobra, though installation with headers is a PITA (on mine, which had 2 5/8 long tube BBK's, you had to drop the whole front subframe with drivetrain in it, pick the drivetrain out of the subframe, take the headers off, then take the trans off).
That is a solid platform with a ton of performance for a great price. I'd be super interested if I wasn't already tripping over cars...
Thanks! Yeah, we talked about a transmission swap. Challenge is that I'm not mechanically inclined, nor do I have the time to learn something like that. For him to find/buy a T45, then try to sell the 600 and pay to have someone do the swap might be a bit much.
Even reading that Liberty Gear explanation I'm still clueless as to what "face plating" is and how it affects shifting...
docwyte said:
Even reading that Liberty Gear explanation I'm still clueless as to what "face plating" is and how it affects shifting...
Have you ever floated a gear? As in, up shifted just by letting the RPM's drop to that perfect spot and slid it into gear without using the clutch? It's kind of like that, but all the time. There are no synchros, just beefy interlocking rings on the gearsets. Doesn't mean you don't use the clutch, but it means that even with the clutch engaged you might not hit that sweet spot and grind gears.
I found this explanation to be useful as well
I've never heard of faceplates before either. But, it sounds like the synchros are removed so that shifts can be faster and not restricted by the time it takes the synchro to bring the new gear up to speed. There may also be some lash between accel and decel by the enlarged dog windows.
When street driving I bet it's crunchy even if you get pretty good at rev matching. (I bet it's crunchy on track too, but you'd care less on track).
Finally it probably would need to be matched with a lighter clutch and flywheel for the whole thing to work well, which can also get annoying on the street.
In reply to docwyte :
Yeah they kinda gloss over it a bit. Im guessing from the "removing stock synchronizers" and toughening up the gears, its made for hard shifting and slamming gears in anger, and it will take the abuse, but your always going to have to drive it kinda hard and angry cause thats how it works now.
*disclaimer*I could also be completely wrong. Im just taking a good theorized guess. Either way, im sure it makes the car not real fun to cruise in. And horrible as a daily driver. And a loud, fast looking cop magnet.
I think they used to call that a "crash box" - you can upshift quickly at rpm / load however downshifts are near impossible. Designed for drag racing where you really only have to up-shift. I could never imagine one on the street (and have it last)...
It sounds a bit like a "slick-shift" transmission like what was done to manuals before Lenco's became a thing in Pro-Stock. Sox & Martin is one team I can name that did this with ChryCo A833's.
Good luck with the sale.
Yep, it's a very "beefy" transmission which can handle a ton of power and much more "abuse" than a stock transmission. The trade off is that shifting it isn't like a normal transmission. It has synchros for 1st, 5th and reverse, but 2, 3, 4 do not. You can double clutch, which will take away the grind and violence. You can also shift it quickly and hard. As the description explains, it's still a bit more rough because of the space between teeth. It clunks fairly loudly. It's not something I'd enjoy for a daily driver. But for either a track car or drag car, or even the occasional weekend "hard drive", it's not terrible. He's used to it, but just doesn't like it as much as he thought he would. Just trying to help him get out of it and get something more suited to what he needs/wants.
The first time I drove my old NMRA Real Street car with a faceplated TKO 500 in the pits I thought the trans was broken! It was great for shifting with little to no clutch at 6,500rpm but I would never want that to be in my street car.
A face plated transmission is a a syncro transmission modified by welding or machining the faces of the gears and sliders so that they have dogs on them like those in a dog box. Some of them are better done than others.
Below is a picture of a slider and gear from a Dog Ring Box. In this case a Hewland mk9. The gear spins on a bearing and the slider is splined to the shaft. When you move the shifter it slides the slider over so that the dogs on the slider and gears engage. It's easy to imagine the noise that makes if the speeds aren't matched.
Here's a face plated gear and slider. The gear on the left has a plate with slots for the dogs welded to the synchronizer cone and the slider, or shift sleave, has the dogs machined into the face.
Dog boxes, both factory and face plated, need to be shifted quickly and with the revs somewhat matched. They almost always make a clunking noise when they engage.
Personally, I wouldn't want one on the street but when I was younger it probably wouldn't have bothered me and it's certainly doable.
I just picked it up from the shop, where it had the new O2 sensors and EGR installed. Yeah, the car drives better the harder you drive it. It doesn't like to be driven like a 2002 Buick Lesabre. If you shift quickly and at a decent rpm, it'll clunk but not horribly. If you double clutch, regardless of rpm, it doesn't clunk. If you get on it hard and shift, it's fairly happy.
Here's a good video about faceplated transmissions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjL1wDEkjYY
Does he like the car other than the transmission? I'm wondering if he could swap transmissions with someone local (having them or a local shop doing the work). But then again, you probably don't want a used transmission from someone who's upgrading to a faceplated one!
My son is still looking to sell this and the price has come down to $8500. If you know anyone interested, let me know. Updated CL ad....
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/dallas-1996-ford-mustang-cobra-highly/7510079276.html
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
If this is still around post challenge we may have to look at an MR2 Mustang trade.
