NMNA: Big Block Jagggg

In reply to frenchyd :

There have already been 2 people who volunteered to help pay the costs. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

My personal  preference is a $300 limit for the engine.  I'll take the 20 horsepower hit for using carbs.  I'll provide the car. 

First event a high speed track like Elkhart Lake or Daytona. 
how long do you think it will take to install your engine?  

If you're scared just say that you're scared. I already told you I have $450 in my BBC so you putting a $300 limit says that you don't want to compete. 

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

There have already been 2 people who volunteered to help pay the costs. 

Three.  I'll pitch in $100.  

I miss a few days on this thread, and it feels like I'm a newbie on the forum!

Stampie (FS) said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

My personal  preference is a $300 limit for the engine.  I'll take the 20 horsepower hit for using carbs.  I'll provide the car. 

First event a high speed track like Elkhart Lake or Daytona. 
how long do you think it will take to install your engine?  

If you're scared just say that you're scared. I already told you I have $450 in my BBC so you putting a $300 limit says that you don't want to compete. 

No,  I thought you spoke about using a SBC*. I know how to spend the extra. Want to kick it up to $500 that's fine by me.  I'll just grab a pair of my other cams.  Since they are more than 30 years old I doubt I'll have very much in them.  Maybe pop off the heads and freshen the valves. 
 

* Since the SBC is about 200 pounds lighter  than the BBC and there really isn't that big a difference in power.  You might want to go that way. Either way works for me. 

frenchyd said:

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Are you also agreeing to do the $2000 Challenge?

Not if I have to pay the costs involved in the round trip. But if that can be deferred,  sure.  To make it fair we can select one of the " Pro" drivers  to do all the testing.  
Being a gentleman I'll let Tempie put his engine in first. 

Hahaha, he called you "Tempie"

And make it four.  I'll pitch in $50

Bring tired of the moving target here's what we've both agreed to before.

$1000 engine limit. This should include fuel management and any accessories attached to the engine including headers, turbo if used and the intake tract up to where an air filter would be if used.  Basically anything the air or fuel passes through fuel pressure regulator forward except what is traditionally considered the exhaust system.  Accessories such as alternator, power steering pump are also included in the budget. You will build what is commonly considered a Jaguar V12. I will build what is commonly called a SBC or BBC.  SBC excludes LS engines.

I can swap my engine into your XJS or if I choose to I can build my own XJS.  Either way the race car is unlimited in budget or mods as this is an engine competition not a race car competition hence us racing a fat car with a long wheelbase that should never be raced by normal people. Radiator and coolant hoses are considered part of the race car. Fuel pump and lines are part of the car also. 

The race will be held at a venue of your choosing in the summer of 2022. You must give notice at least 6 months in advance of the location and date.

I'm giving you everything you want except I'm not going to give you enough budget to mod your engine while I'm forced to bring a stock engine.  I think I'm giving you way too much. Anyway I'm done with changing targets. If you want to race then agree. If you don't want to race then let's end the conversation. 

Stampie did not specify, but I believe $1000 includes the cost of the engine itself, not just the mods?

I think that nails down the engine. The car plan just needs to be nailed down.

Hopefully, by then, I will be able to kick in some funds as well! And my time, 'cause I love a road trip as well!

In reply to 03Panther :

Yes it includes the cost of the engine. Frenchy already stated no recoup and I stated no self trade. All FMV determined by  5 GRM members with at least 50 post agreeing. 

I guess I'll donate to the cause as well

Stampie (FS) said:

Bring tired of the moving target here's what we've both agreed to before.

$1000 engine limit. This should include fuel management and any accessories attached to the engine including headers, turbo if used and the intake tract up to where an air filter would be if used.  Basically anything the air or fuel passes through fuel pressure regulator forward except what is traditionally considered the exhaust system.  Accessories such as alternator, power steering pump are also included in the budget. You will build what is commonly considered a Jaguar V12. I will build what is commonly called a SBC or BBC.  SBC excludes LS engines.

I can swap my engine into your XJS or if I choose to I can build my own XJS.  Either way the race car is unlimited in budget or mods as this is an engine competition not a race car competition hence us racing a fat car with a long wheelbase that should never be raced by normal people. Radiator and coolant hoses are considered part of the race car. Fuel pump and lines are part of the car also. 

The race will be held at a venue of your choosing in the summer of 2022. You must give notice at least 6 months in advance of the location and date.

I'm giving you everything you want except I'm not going to give you enough budget to mod your engine while I'm forced to bring a stock engine.  I think I'm giving you way too much. Anyway I'm done with changing targets. If you want to race then agree. If you don't want to race then let's end the conversation. 

I like these rules

I hope it's Daytona, I want to see this. 

This is also home to the GRM mothership, so it would be easy to cover for an article, too.

Stampie (FS) said:

Bring tired of the moving target here's what we've both agreed to before.

$1000 engine limit. This should include fuel management and any accessories attached to the engine including headers, turbo if used and the intake tract up to where an air filter would be if used.  Basically anything the air or fuel passes through fuel pressure regulator forward except what is traditionally considered the exhaust system.  Accessories such as alternator, power steering pump are also included in the budget. You will build what is commonly considered a Jaguar V12. I will build what is commonly called a SBC or BBC.  SBC excludes LS engines.

I can swap my engine into your XJS or if I choose to I can build my own XJS.  Either way the race car is unlimited in budget or mods as this is an engine competition not a race car competition hence us racing a fat car with a long wheelbase that should never be raced by normal people. Radiator and coolant hoses are considered part of the race car. Fuel pump and lines are part of the car also. 

The race will be held at a venue of your choosing in the summer of 2022. You must give notice at least 6 months in advance of the location and date.

I'm giving you everything you want except I'm not going to give you enough budget to mod your engine while I'm forced to bring a stock engine.  I think I'm giving you way too much. Anyway I'm done with changing targets. If you want to race then agree. If you don't want to race then let's end  

iF you need a $1000 engine budget  to compete against my $300 or even $500  engine budget  you're admitting the Chevy needs extra help.  

Let's stick to $500 to build an engine.  That's meeting you 1/2 way. Besides you were the one saying you could modify a Chevy cheaper than I can a Jaguar. 
I'll get you engine compartment dimensions.   Better plan on real block huggers if you're going to use headers.  Remember the V12 is only 22 inches wide to the outside of the exhaust manifolds.  It's a very tight engine compartment. 
 You also have  only 25  inches from the bottom of the pan to the top of the air cleaner.  ( unless  you'll risk your oil pan being lower ) 

If you want to build your own XJS let's co-ordinate so the car isn't part of the equation.  

One last condition. No limited production versions.  Jaguar made special versions such as the TWR  version  and the Lister version.  They were much more powerful than stock.
The Same as Chevy made L88's ZL1' etc. no  solid  lifters, aluminum heads or rectangular ports.  Production based engines. 

In reply to frenchyd :

A $500 limit means you just want to go up against a stock engine while you have room to do your cams.  $1000 gives us both room to do cams but not enough to do new aftermarket heads.  Despite what SVreX says I'm not as stupid as I look.

if it's "summer 2022", might I suggest the following venue:

http://ultimatetrackcarchallenge.com/

VIR is "old school" and has straights you can stretch your legs at.  We'll see what the state of the world is, but I might could help with some of the logistics for there by then (sleepy-in-laws live an hour-ish west of VIR).

If you do this at VIR as suggested by sleepyhead I will also come down and assist.

Stampie (FS) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

A $500 limit means you just want to go up against a stock engine while you have room to do your cams.  $1000 gives us both room to do cams but not enough to do new aftermarket heads.  Despite what SVreX says I'm not as stupid as I look.

Let him keep wanking over his v12's in the garage and concentrate on the model t/a

In reply to frenchyd :

I love how you say oh yeah you'll need special headers let's limit it to $500.  

Ok very last proposal. Since my engine isn't given away like junk for free ...

Production long block excluded from budget.  Power steering, alternator and such also excluded. Exhaust manifold/header excluded. 

Included in budget any changes to production long block such as cams, pistons, oil pan.  Any intake items changed from production engine such as intake, fuel management, turbo, or supercharger.  Including any intercooler and related plumbing. 

$750 budget.

I think that's a very realistic grab a motor from a junkyard and throw on some mild mods before racing it. Especially for this crowd. 

Stampie (FS) said:

Despite what SVreX says I'm not as stupid as I look.

Huh?? 

Where the hell did THAT come from?? I have never once thought anything close to that!

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

just seeing if you were paying attention. 

sleepyhead the buffalo said:

if it's "summer 2022", might I suggest the following venue:

http://ultimatetrackcarchallenge.com/

VIR is "old school" and has straights you can stretch your legs at.  We'll see what the state of the world is, but I might could help with some of the logistics for there by then (sleepy-in-laws live an hour-ish west of VIR).

Brilliant suggestion! Incredible track, plus it's a magazine event, so they can cover the grudge match!!

How do you police this budget? Just good faith that the other person won't go above and lie?

Hmm... GRM has a tear down rule. 

DukeOfUndersteer said:

How do you police this budget? Just good faith that the other person won't go above and lie?

I'll be perfectly willing to open my engine up or faster and easier pull a plug and use a bore scope  to check things out. Checking cams is easy in both cases. On a Jag just pop the valve cover off, cams right there. 
Chevy  measure the lift and duration on the pushrod side of the rocker arm.  Then measure the valve side for ratio change.  

Stampie (FS) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I love how you say oh yeah you'll need special headers let's limit it to $500.  

Ok very last proposal. Since my engine isn't given away like junk for free ...

Production long block excluded from budget.  Power steering, alternator and such also excluded. Exhaust manifold/header excluded. 

Included in budget any changes to production long block such as cams, pistons, oil pan.  Any intake items changed from production engine such as intake, fuel management, turbo, or supercharger.  Including any intercooler and related plumbing. 

$750 budget.

I think that's a very realistic grab a motor from a junkyard and throw on some mild mods before racing it. Especially for this crowd. 

Why are you afraid of stock?   It's a lot cheaper and easy to police.  I'll bring a stone  stock carbureted V12.  Not one of Jaguars exotic production ones.   You do the same with a Big block Chevy.*. Remember from the bottom of your pan you have about 25 inches before you hit the hood.  
 

Regarding headers. I'm just telling you the engine compartment on a Jaguar is narrow.  Use stock manifolds. Or if you must  use headers keep them very narrow or they won't fit. At the back top you have 24 inches. 12 inches per side.  It  narrows down from there.  At the front of the engine it's wider